Them comics...

[elisi]

OK, I've been pondering the whole comic book thing and reading various posts, and here's my two cents (or should that be pennies?).

You know what my first thought was upon seeing the outfit? 'Thank goodness she's finally wearing something approximating armour!' Oh it's unflattering, and the pockets are *ugly*, but I'm thinking that if the new Slayers had been wearing something similar in Chosen more of them would have made it out alive. And since Buffy wants to keep them alive, and has to set a good example, she's wearing the stuff too! The gun is obviously not a gun, but some sort of 'forcefield zapper'. *shrug* She's on a mission, and I doubt she'll be wearing only one outfit through the whole season. The Riley-ness of it is unappealing, but - as shapinglight put it - don't judge a book by a few pages. Just as you shouldn't judge BtVS by f.ex. 'Bad Eggs' alone!

Now about the ret-con... I like it. Although it's going to co-exist with the previous canon version in my head. Let me try to explain:

1) Buffy dating The Immortal. I like The Immortal - or rather I like all the possibilites he opens up. He's a blank canvas characterwise, and writers have done incredible things with him (he's probably my favourite thing about 'Three Deep' and treacle_a's version is also *amazing*!) I like the fact that Buffy is having fun in her new life, and that Mr Perfect is her rebound guy.

2) There are 3 'Buffies', and one of the extras is dating The Immortal. First of all, this is a fantabulous gift for Spuffies everywhere. The giant big obstacle in the path of true love has been poofed away! Woohoo! Second, it makes TGiQ *so* much better. I always liked it, but Andrew (although entertaining) always felt a little off. But if the whole thing is *his* idea, and *his* set-up, his behaviour makes more than perfect sense: He's been allowed to write his own Buffy fanfic, and my goodness but he grasps the chance! It explains why Buffy is never there, but more importantly it shifts the focus back on Spike and Angel, rather than shipping wars, and possible anger at Buffy. So yeah, this is going to be canon to me as far as that episode is concerned! :)

The other thing of course, is that people have spent what seems like forever having an Immortal shaped problem in their fic (unless they choose to develop him, as mentioned above). I don't think I've ever come across a fic that dared ret-con him away like that. And yet Joss just did it, and I'm sure there are many, many writers muttering to themselves 'Why didn't I do that?' The answer of course being that people would think it rather ridiculous! Heh.

I think that was all - in any case I have to run. Oh - I also meant to say that as far as I can tell, S8 will take place concurrently with S5 of AtS, so in a way it's only filling out all the blanks between the snippets we've been told. I think I would like to know more. Some people have said that they want to know what happened after NFA. Not me. I am immensely grateful that Joss won't be touching the perfect ending, and if he ever does I might have to give it a miss. I just don't want to know.

ETA: The comics are like canon back-up! At least that's my take. :)



For anyone who might have missed it - I posted the Epilogue to Illyria, Alone on Friday.

Comments

[shapinglight]

One of my reasons for not liking the retcon (apart from the whole disliking Andrew so intensely that the thought of having to accept that anyone is actually listening to him is very galling indeed) is that I just didn't see why Buffy shouldn't have some down-time after Chosen and if that meant dating a suave, sophisticated Italian then why the bloody hell shouldn't she?

However, I can see why Joss dispensed with the Immortal. Comics in general are not much about dating and having down-time, they're about action and fighting. Unless the Immortal was going to be a)the season's Big Bad or b) a super-powered ally he didn't really have a place in that.

:Goes back to the Andrew hating:

[elisi]

Well I love Andrew, so I'm happy to find a reason to excuse the only bit where I've come close to disliking him a little...

I think what I like is that we can all have our cake and eat it, more or less. Having two canons to choose from is kinda nice, and as I'm thinking about it more, I'm finding that they co-exist quite hapily in my head. :)

And I agree with your assesment of Joss' reasons. Which reminds me of something else I like - The Immortal will probably continue to be a blank, which is very good for fanfic!

::goes back to being an eternal optimist::

[shapinglight]

Well I love Andrew

I suppose someone has to.

[lusciousxander.livejournal.com]

I just didn't see why Buffy shouldn't have some down-time after Chosen and if that meant dating a suave, sophisticated Italian then why the bloody hell shouldn't she?


Word.

[speakr2customrs.livejournal.com]

I've seen fics that did the 'it was a body double dating the Immortal' thing. Some with Buffy's knowledge, and at least two where it was done without Buffy's knowledge as part of a plan to keep Spike away. In one it was purely arranged by Giles and Angel was also fooled, in another Angel was part of the plot too.

I'm very much against the gun - especially as a force-field zapper. Because they worked so well when the Initiative had them, right? Oh, yeah, they really didn't.

To me one of the prime advantages of the Slayer rests in her being apparently innocent and vulnerable. Armed and armoured that advantage disappears. She's suddenly playing on the same turf as the SAS, Delta Force, Marinejegerkommandoen, Spetsnatz, etc. And they are better trained for that kind of thing than she is, their Government funding will always be better than any private funding even if the new Council has millions at its disposal, and they will do a better job.

And the gun/blaster is really badly designed. A villain with an FNP-90 would chop her in half before she could swing that big clunky thing around, super reactions or not, and the FNP's ammo will go through body armour as if it was tissue paper.

[elisi]

I've seen fics that did the 'it was a body double dating the Immortal' thing.
Obviously I don't get around enough! ;)

Armed and armoured that advantage disappears.
Well she's always been armed! I'm not fond of the zapper, but it's unlikely to be a big recurring thing. And I doubt the SAS would be on top of that mountain - The Slayer deals with supernatural threats, not human.

Mostly, I guess we'll just have to wait and see!

(Oh and there's some icons here that you might like.)

[swsa.livejournal.com]

I read one where fake Buffy was dating the Immortal to cover the tracks of real Buffy who was pregnant with Spike's baby. *sigh* So yeah, pretty much explains why my reaction to Joss going the same route was a massive eyeroll.

[elisi]

Heeeee! I really do see the comics as fanfic, but carrying a bit more weight since it's Joss. I think I'd like to find out what story he wants to tell, but if it doesn't go the way I like it's not going to upset me much, because hey - comic! It's just doesn't feel like 'proper' Buffy.

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

*dies*

Do you remember a title? Do you have a link?

[owenthurman.livejournal.com]

FNP's ammo will go through body armour as if it was tissue paper.

Any quality rifle will cut through everything short of tank armor like it's not there. Body armor is to protect you against handgun and shotgun fire, not rifle rounds. Rifles have much higher muzzle velocities and rounds carry much, much more energy than shot or handgun ammunition. Even the best battlefield armor will do little against even the mousiest little .22 rifle ammo.

Which is just another good reason for Buffy to wear a cute little skirt and halter with a little furry thing over the shioulders. And heels.

[lusciousxander.livejournal.com]

I used to take things negatively because of the responses I saw in LJ, but now, I'm being nothing but positive. Limiting my thoughts to two words: MORE XANDER!!! Adding YAY! right after it.

I'm glad to see more people being positive about the comics. As for the gun thing, here are my thoughts which I had pointed somewhere else: My feelings about the gun thing aren't as strong as the others. Especially when I'm staring at Buffy in one of my S4 side-covers (just bought the season) and here she is holding a gun. She also killed the judge with one. Characters may say certain things but sometimes they do the opposite. It's the same with Xander who told Willow in Lover's Walk that he doesn't trust magic, especially without talking to Giles about it, then we see him irresponsibly summoning Sweet in OMWF. I was angry and bitter about it, so I really don't blame anyone who's angry about the gun, but eventually I learned to live with it.

[elisi]

For me, it's mostly finding out what they (Buffy specifically) were doing post-Chosen. We got some hints on AtS, but I'd like it to be fleshed out.

As for guns... I said this elsewhere, but the main thing about guns is that they don't kill demons. Not as effectively as a sword or axe or stake or crossbow. And they're pretty mcuh useless against vamps. Ergo, Buffy seldom uses guns. (Not sure a bazooka could be described as a 'gun'! *g*). But Buffy is also flexible, so if someone gives her a flaregun, she'll bring it along!

[mikeygs.livejournal.com]

I am immensely grateful that Joss won't be touching the perfect ending

Actually, I feel the same way about Chosen.

Not judging a book by its cover is a good point and I do keep reminding myself of that, but it just doesn't seem to be working. I'm one of the few who LIKED that Buffy was ostensibly happy in Rome and the Scoobies themselves could be out finding themselves instead of tripping all over each other. Changing it makes Andrew look like an absolute asshole, IMO. He had firsthand knowledge of Spike's affections and decided to play some sick joke? To me, it takes what was a strong moment in that episode and tosses it in the garbage. I don't know, this whole thing to me seems like a rehash of (vastly overrated, IMO) S3, with the Buffy wearing strange, unflattering clothing and the all-for-one schtick.

Most of my Buffy friends (online and not) were never into the comics even while the show was running, so just getting them to make the leap itself was going to be tough. But in all appearances they've changed alot of what the show was about and the medium doesn't really work well with what many people loved the show for. I guess it's true we'll have to wait and see, but my apprehension is very great.

Wow, that was longer and more depressing than expected. Sorry.

[elisi]

I guess it's true we'll have to wait and see, but my apprehension is very great.
Oh I get that. But because of the different medium it can never feel as 'real' to me as the show. More like glorified fanfic. So if the comics turn out good I'll be happy, and if not I'll just shrug and move on.

As I said elsewhere, it's like back-up canon!

[ibmiller.livejournal.com]

I didn't really like the outfit either - or the coloring. Buffy's not grey, or blue! But anyway, I hated the Immortal, and refused to watch TGIQ because of that. Now, I think I finally can.

I find it rather amusing to see the reactions people are having to S8 - I think it's a good decision to start promoting it now, so people have time to get used to the idea. Personally, having read other comics by Joss and spending a little time getting to know the art form, I think it's just as valid as TV (and, of course, there are those who think TV itself is a poor art form). As for Spuffy, I think the only irritating thing in the shipping realm is that most of the official things which have come out about Bangel vs Spuffy have been Bangel - which I think is both unfair and inaccurate to what happened in the show. Whatever Joss does will probably be fine - unless he has Buffy date a chaos demon. That would just be mean. To the chaos demon - not (I love Buffy, really, I do. I didn't hate her, not even in S6).

[elisi]

Now, I think I finally can.
Well that's a positive thing at least! And TGiQ is *funny*. :)

I think it's just as valid as TV
Oh absolutely. Probably my first fanish love (although I didn't know it at the time) was 'Elfquest (by Wendy and Richard Pini). I'm just not sure how well these things translate... (of course there's fanfic that's almost like watching the show. But only almost).

Whatever Joss does will probably be fine - unless he has Buffy date a chaos demon.
Nope. For me worst-case-scenario is B/X.

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

S8 will take place concurrently with S5 of AtS

Not sure about it. In TGIQ False!Buffy is The Immortal's "new ragazza". In comics's fuirst pages we find out that False!Buffy is already dating The Immortal. So the action in the comics starts in May, 2004, I suppose. (Of course, Joss may dismiss "new ragazza" mention as easily as he dismissed the rest stuff).

(Am I the only one who feels a definite Bander ending of the season 8?)

[lusciousxander.livejournal.com]

(Am I the only one who feels a definite Bander ending of the season 8?)

By Bander you mean Buffy/Xander? I hope not, I think Xander and Buffy have a more special relationship as brother/sister who play parents for Dawn. Don't worry, I doubt it'll end that way. :)

[elisi]

So the action in the comics starts in May, 2004, I suppose.
There is that. But Joss said that he wasn't going to say what happened to Angel's lot post-NFA (Which would be hard to avoid really), so I'm a little confused I guess. We'll have to wait and see.

Am I the only one who feels a definite Bander ending of the season 8?
I think I've answered that already? Mostly it's the fact that Buffy was never, ever attracted to Xander. She hated Spike, sure, but there was sparkage from the start.

[bogwitch.livejournal.com]

I just ingored the Immortal completely. :)

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

I did this icon a year ago



:)

[elisi]

Seems sensible! ;)

And I hope your hand gets better soon!

[stormwreath.livejournal.com]

You know what my first thought was upon seeing the outfit? 'Thank goodness she's finally wearing something approximating armour!'

Yes, but she isn't, really. The three other girls are wearing body armour (although one is also wearing a purple hat with a pair of kitten ears, which she probably stole from either Willow or Vi). Buffy's wearing a skimpy red top, with just the webbing harness over the top of it. I'll give even odds she's either dropped the harness or had it torn off in a fight by the second issue...

As for the timing, obviously some has elapsed since Chosen but I don't see why it has to be much later. "The Immortal's new ragazza" could easily mean the girl he's been dating for the last year, as opposed to the ones he was dating for the previous 20 years before that... Love the idea of Andrew writing Buffy fanfic, by the way...

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

"The Immortal's new ragazza" could easily mean the girl he's been dating for the last year, as opposed to the ones he was dating for the previous 20 years before that...

Then Angel's spy would have informed him earlier.

[owenthurman.livejournal.com]

My first S8 fanfic: Sweaty Jossed. It's a fill-in-the-blanks fic.