Them comics...

[elisi]

OK, I've been pondering the whole comic book thing and reading various posts, and here's my two cents (or should that be pennies?).

You know what my first thought was upon seeing the outfit? 'Thank goodness she's finally wearing something approximating armour!' Oh it's unflattering, and the pockets are *ugly*, but I'm thinking that if the new Slayers had been wearing something similar in Chosen more of them would have made it out alive. And since Buffy wants to keep them alive, and has to set a good example, she's wearing the stuff too! The gun is obviously not a gun, but some sort of 'forcefield zapper'. *shrug* She's on a mission, and I doubt she'll be wearing only one outfit through the whole season. The Riley-ness of it is unappealing, but - as shapinglight put it - don't judge a book by a few pages. Just as you shouldn't judge BtVS by f.ex. 'Bad Eggs' alone!

Now about the ret-con... I like it. Although it's going to co-exist with the previous canon version in my head. Let me try to explain:

1) Buffy dating The Immortal. I like The Immortal - or rather I like all the possibilites he opens up. He's a blank canvas characterwise, and writers have done incredible things with him (he's probably my favourite thing about 'Three Deep' and treacle_a's version is also *amazing*!) I like the fact that Buffy is having fun in her new life, and that Mr Perfect is her rebound guy.

2) There are 3 'Buffies', and one of the extras is dating The Immortal. First of all, this is a fantabulous gift for Spuffies everywhere. The giant big obstacle in the path of true love has been poofed away! Woohoo! Second, it makes TGiQ *so* much better. I always liked it, but Andrew (although entertaining) always felt a little off. But if the whole thing is *his* idea, and *his* set-up, his behaviour makes more than perfect sense: He's been allowed to write his own Buffy fanfic, and my goodness but he grasps the chance! It explains why Buffy is never there, but more importantly it shifts the focus back on Spike and Angel, rather than shipping wars, and possible anger at Buffy. So yeah, this is going to be canon to me as far as that episode is concerned! :)

The other thing of course, is that people have spent what seems like forever having an Immortal shaped problem in their fic (unless they choose to develop him, as mentioned above). I don't think I've ever come across a fic that dared ret-con him away like that. And yet Joss just did it, and I'm sure there are many, many writers muttering to themselves 'Why didn't I do that?' The answer of course being that people would think it rather ridiculous! Heh.

I think that was all - in any case I have to run. Oh - I also meant to say that as far as I can tell, S8 will take place concurrently with S5 of AtS, so in a way it's only filling out all the blanks between the snippets we've been told. I think I would like to know more. Some people have said that they want to know what happened after NFA. Not me. I am immensely grateful that Joss won't be touching the perfect ending, and if he ever does I might have to give it a miss. I just don't want to know.

ETA: The comics are like canon back-up! At least that's my take. :)



For anyone who might have missed it - I posted the Epilogue to Illyria, Alone on Friday.

Comments

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

Hopefully S8 will go with Buffy having no love interest, I really wanna see a Buffy without a boyfriend, at least for a season.

But what it will be about? The missions? The training? The Council problems? I've already written in reply to elisi that ships are the most important aspect of Buffyverse.

Now imagine that Joss resurrected Anya for Xander and Tara for Willow. Or paired Xander with Dawn and brought back Oz for Willow. And, of course they all have issues and suffer (because it's Jossverse). Don't you think that boyfriend-less and issue-less Buffy will automatucally become the least interesting character in Scooby Gang?

Knowing Joss I suppose that the shippy stuff will start by the episode 3-5. Don't forget that Joss rhapsodized BA as "transcendent" yet made Buffy sleep with another guy in the 3rd episode into the next season and started Buffy\Riley ship in earnest by episode 8.

Damn, I fell like an old mare who hears the sound of the war-horn again. Yay spoiler-whoring! :)

[aycheb.livejournal.com]

ships are the most important aspect of Buffyverse.

Not for everyone. Personally I'll take character development over romance any day and there's plenty could be going on with Buffy and the others that doesn't hinge on a love interest. (Although just because she hasn't met the Immortal yet doesn't put him entirely out of the running.) Survivor guilt, how does she cope with all the bright young Slayers calling her ma'am to her face and "last year's girl" behind her back plus a myriad other things Joss will think of that I never can.

[mikeygs.livejournal.com]

I agree. Truthfully, I've always seen Buffy's romances much in the same light as the monsters she faced--metaphors.

[swsa.livejournal.com]

Shippiness is a whole lot different in a comic book than it is on a network aired television series. I really don't think there's anything to worry about on that front. And I say this as someone who's *loathed* every single thing I've seen about these comics so far.

[lusciousxander.livejournal.com]

Romance is not the first thing I look for in the show. I pretty much enjoy the core four dynamic between Buffy, Xander, Willow and Giles way more than romantic relationships.

I believe missions are the most focus, but I think there'll be sucky relationships that end badly in three issues... the Buffy/Parker type relationships. Probably.

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

Romance is not the first thing I look for in the show. I pretty much enjoy the core four dynamic between Buffy, Xander, Willow and Giles way more than romantic relationships.

Obviously, that's where we differ. I'm mostly attracted to romantic side - although I love Spuffy love-hate/snarkage/love-friendship more than BA straightforward romfnce.

I believe missions are the most focus,

I think in Jossverse missions has always been the means and the relationships have always been the ends.

but I think there'll be sucky relationships that end badly in three issues... the Buffy/Parker type relationships. Probably

Yes. We'll see. Now I'n starting to wonder which Buffy is real. Could all the three of them be the real deal? :)

[lusciousxander.livejournal.com]

Obviously, that's where we differ. I'm mostly attracted to romantic side - although I love Spuffy love-hate/snarkage/love-friendship more than BA straightforward romfnce.

It's the matter of taste. :) Some watch the show for Spuffy, others for Bangel, others for Bander, others for Giles, others for Willow... etc. No matter what Joss writes, he'll end up pissing some fans and makes the other half happy. I wish he does what he thinks is right instead of listening to the fans.

Some fans don't consider the late seasons canon because it wasn't done in the WB (but the real reason is because they didn't like where their fave characters' directions went) Others who liked the late seasons don't consider the comics canon because they're just comics (but the real reason is they're afraid Joss is gonna take their favorite characters to a direction they don't want.)

I'm gonna accept the comics as canon because that'll give me more material to work with in the future, more plots and twists to base our fics on, even if Joss killed my Xander. Or paired him with Buffy. Or had him slave for Andrew. I'm happy for the comics, they're already making a fuzz and shaking the fandom up. Thank you, Joss. :)

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

I'm gonna accept the comics as canon because that'll give me more material to work with in the future, more plots and twists to base our fics on

I love Elisi's suggestion to regard comics as back-up canon. But the more I think about comics the less important they seem to me fanfiction-wise. Maybe because Spuffy has always been about dodging canon and working around it (which, by the way makes the pairing even more slashy).

even if Joss killed my Xander. Or paired him with Buffy. Or had him slave for Andrew.

Er... The way you phrase it looks like for you these three options are equivalent. Do you really find the prospect of B\X as terrible as Xander's death?

[lusciousxander.livejournal.com]

I love Elisi's suggestion to regard comics as back-up canon. But the more I think about comics the less important they seem to me fanfiction-wise. Maybe because Spuffy has always been about dodging canon and working around it (which, by the way makes the pairing even more slashy).

Maybe because Spuffy never really gotten togther, that makes the ship more interesting. I never had the interest to read Bangel, Ruffy, Xandelia, Xanya, Willoz and Tillow because they all happened in the happy couple sense. Spuffy never really had that feeling, even in S7, they were more like friends than boyfriend/girlfriend.

Er... The way you phrase it looks like for you these three options are equivalent. Do you really find the prospect of B\X as terrible as Xander's death?

LOL! Nah, I rather watch Bander over having Xander dead of course, I really don't mind if it went Bander. I just like Xander and Buffy as friends. I don't strongly hate it, no, I think it makes sense story!wise and character!wise, yes, even for Buffy. But I like them more as friends, they remind me of me and my best friend (a guy).

Funny thing, I'm writing a Bander for something right now. It's not really that hard, which is a plus since I've written harder ships like Spander and Xangel, and both need more thinking and pages for them to happen.

What about you, would you hate it if Xander and Buffy got together? I know you prefer Spuffy, but you seem like me in the sense that you don't really like to stick 100% to canon.

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

I may be a weird shipper because I don't want my couple to be together in canon. I WANT TO WANT it. And to provide this desire the couple should be separated. So, if Buffy ends up with Xander, I get one more set-up for a Spuffy story.

I like Xander and once I wrote a story in which he became the head of The Watcher's Council. I never shipped him with Buffy because I couldn't create a believable conflict to push the story forward. Once I wrote a time-travel fic with a premise of B\X's happily ever after but I hadn't posted it because I couldn't develop the details of their family life. In my mind it was so normal and healthy that I couldn't find anything compelling to write about.

But I think that if Joss wants the audience to love B\X he'll make us love them. I firmly believe that I rooted for Spuffy because Joss wanted the audience to root for Spuffy.

[lusciousxander.livejournal.com]

I may be a weird shipper because I don't want my couple to be together in canon.

Don't worry. I'm just as weird as you. I'm so happy Xander and Spike didn't get together in the show, accosing to JM, Spike was supposed to be brought back as a regular to be Cordelia in every sense, including being gay with Xander. Then the writers decided Willow is a better choice to be gay, and Anya was gave the Cordelia role.

I'm so happy, there was no Spander, the slashy hints of the show are enough to make the ship as popular as it is right now.

The Bander I'm writing is post-Chosen, it's a lot easier that way that during the show. Still, I think making Buffy see Xander that way is the tricky part. Really hard. Needs a lot of thinking.

once I wrote a story in which he became the head of The Watcher's Council.

Link? ^_^

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

I'm so happy Xander and Spike didn't get together in the show, accosing to JM, Spike was supposed to be brought back as a regular to be Cordelia in every sense, including being gay with Xander.

I read a lot of speculations about it but never saw any direct quote. Did James really said that? Do you have a link to his quote - about writers intentions to make Spike Xander's boyfriend?

Link? ^_^
http://moscow-watcher.livejournal.com/21747.html

[lusciousxander.livejournal.com]

I only have Pesha's word on it:

"I actually have to respond to this because I realized that no one had. They had thought of making Spike gay and having the Spander relationship turn out to be a canon thing. I remember hearing a lot about that. James Marsters actually talked about it at DCon back in 2003 when Skitty and I went. We both died all over ourselves for the idea that Spike could have been bisexual on the show. (There was actually very little basis for Spike being bisexual whereas groundwork had already been laid for Xander's switch from heterosexual to bisexual.) There was also talk of the return of Larry or another HS friend that Xander could become involved with."

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

Interesting. I remember Dragon Con interviews very well because I translated them for Russian JM board. He hasn't said anything and Spike's bisexuality when he talked from the stage, but he could have been more talkative and open in private conversations.

And the way Anya has been introduced in The Wish, she could be reintroduced in season 4 as the future Giles' love interest. It was a bit weird that Joss who is famous for breaking couples started Anya\Xander ship back in season 3 and kept them as a couple (well, in season 7 - more or less) for more than 4 seasons.