elisi: (Protest)
[personal profile] elisi




DoWntime has come through again, and how:

BIT OF ADRENALINE, DASH OF OUTRAGE: Our Thoughts on “The Battle of Ranskoor Av Kolos” and Series 11 Wrap-Up — Part 1/2

BIT OF ADRENALINE, DASH OF OUTRAGE: Our Thoughts on “The Battle of Ranskoor Av Kolos” and Series 11 Wrap-Up — Part 2/2

(They go through EVERYTHING: the characters, the villain, Themes and Motifs, Diversity and Representation, Marketing, Politics, Ethics and Aesthetics and The Discourse Problem. If you want to know what I think, just read those posts.)

Alternatively, here is the shorter version, as [personal profile] propergoffick put it here (spoilers in post!):

'And you get this Doctor who you know in your soul votes Lib Dem, recycles, and gets properly annoyed about what Nigel Farage said in the paper the other day, but doesn't do anything about huge systemic problems. She fixes the very specific problem in front of her and leaves well alone. J. K. Rowling in space and time.'

ETA: I *want* Thirteen to be wonderful and amazing and her companions to have fabulous depth and for there to be story-arcs and something to sink my teeth into. But there isn't.


In other news, I have almost finished S22 and may write up some thoughts on that! Six is my darling and I luff him to pieces. ♥

(no subject)

Date: 15 December 2018 05:26 pm (UTC)
nostalgia: (six - rainbow every day)
From: [personal profile] nostalgia
SIX IS DELIGHTFUL

(no subject)

Date: 15 December 2018 05:47 pm (UTC)
nostalgia: missy shows twelve her naked selfies (Default)
From: [personal profile] nostalgia
Also it means when someone slag's off a Doctor's clothes you can go "but Six"

(no subject)

Date: 15 December 2018 06:14 pm (UTC)
nostalgia: (six - colours!!!!)
From: [personal profile] nostalgia
He's magical.

(no subject)

Date: 15 December 2018 05:55 pm (UTC)
thisbluespirit: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thisbluespirit
LOL, but only Six is allowed to look that fabulous!

(no subject)

Date: 15 December 2018 08:09 pm (UTC)
thisbluespirit: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thisbluespirit
I feel the need for an appropriate Six vid here. :-D

(no subject)

Date: 15 December 2018 09:01 pm (UTC)
thisbluespirit: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thisbluespirit
It has some clips from S23, but it's not spoilery - v short and fun. A bit old and blurry actually, but a Babelcolour one.

(no subject)

Date: 15 December 2018 09:10 pm (UTC)
thisbluespirit: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thisbluespirit
You'll see why I linked it re. the above when you get to it!

(no subject)

Date: 16 December 2018 08:27 am (UTC)
thisbluespirit: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thisbluespirit
Clearly she is also fabulous!

(no subject)

Date: 16 December 2018 10:10 am (UTC)
thisbluespirit: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thisbluespirit
The photos don't seem to have come over with the import? (They're just showing as image locked to me.)

(no subject)

Date: 17 December 2018 10:07 pm (UTC)
thisbluespirit: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thisbluespirit
Thanks! They're wonderful pics! I still couldn't see them, but then I wondered if they were hosted on LJ and it was because I'd got logged out, and logged back in and there they were. (But anyone without an LJ account won't, not this side, presumably.)

(no subject)

Date: 18 December 2018 08:39 am (UTC)
thisbluespirit: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thisbluespirit
Heh, well, I'm logged in again now, so it's hard to say. But, yeah, it looked like an excellent day. And once the pics were there I could see whether or not you meant Hattie Holly or the original Holly (and was glad to see it was Hattie).

but give me two characters who argue all the time and... well.

I sympathise. I don't ship Doctor/Companion very much (and am unsure where I want it to go when I do), but if I do it's either something mixed up and intense but fun like Twelve/Clara and Eight/Charley, but my main one is Five/Tegan... because everybody knows what it means when you argue like that in the 1980s! I sort of ship Peri/Six on the same basis sometimes, but not as much. Because, as you say, Six.

(no subject)

Date: 18 December 2018 12:31 pm (UTC)
thisbluespirit: (dw - seven & ace)
From: [personal profile] thisbluespirit
This whole Classic show watching is... discombobulating.

Well, it wouldn't be Doctor Who otherwise, would it? ;-)

(Discombobulate, btw, is, or was, apparently Sylvester's favourite word, so very appropriate!)

and I love the fact that Holly just changes, but the character stays the same.

I love Holly. And that, yes.

(no subject)

Date: 15 December 2018 07:44 pm (UTC)
auroracloud: Thirteenth Doctor with green hills and the TARDIS behind her (Thirteen TARDIS)
From: [personal profile] auroracloud
I got very little Six viewing into my Twitch marathon - The Mark of the Rani was the only one I was able to watch in full, though I did watch enough of The Two Doctors to get my Season 6B foundations (important for a Jamie fan). But I love his Big Finish audios, so I'm definitely going to return to the TV era. And just got to love someone who dresses in ALL THE COLOURS. (I need to make room for the Six icon I've got saved...)

Re: Thirteen era, I'm so mixed because on the other hand I enjoy the characters and enjoyed most of the episodes and I love what the actors do, and I was super hopeful early on and willing to forgive some flaws; but when I look at the season on a whole, it is disappointing, because you just don't get the sense that the Doctor is doing anything or that she stands for anything, and the lack of character development for Yaz is frustrating, and I just want something more powerful. I want more of the Doctor who forged her own sonic screwdriver out of scraps, but instead we just get the one who told Karl off for tripping up Tim Shaw. And the finale was so underwhelming. I don't need the universe to be in danger in every finale, and I'm fine with not needing several rewatches and a spreadsheet to keep track of what went on in the season, but I would still like more than I got. The episode just didn't do anything, and even forgot to follow through with its interesting elements.

I still felt good while watching the episode and after it. But literally minutes after I'd watched it, I was buying Classic Who DVDs online, and not thinking about the episode anymore. That's not how it's supposed to go.

One of the podcasts I listen to - I think Verity! - summed it up well by saying that S11 was playing too safe. And that it feels like it's got training wheels on.

(no subject)

Date: 15 December 2018 08:29 pm (UTC)
auroracloud: Nyssa of Traken in a white top, looking away from camera (Default)
From: [personal profile] auroracloud
Oh, and I wanted to add, I'm glad those posts you linked to addressed the lack of LGBT representation. That has seriously frustrated me.

(no subject)

Date: 16 December 2018 04:53 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] lyricwritesprose
Strictly speaking, S5 had River Song, who is pan. But that wasn't very firmly established at the time; it was mostly hints in the library episodes and creator's opinion. It took until "The Husbands of River Song" before we had explicit onscreen confirmation of the fact.

And you could take that as a sign of creator growth, too, I guess; Moffat learned that you can't just headcanon a character to be bi or pan or whatever, you have to make sure that someone else knows.

I do wonder if Chibnall intended Yaz to be bi, but we know so little about her that it's impossible to tell.

(no subject)

Date: 18 December 2018 08:47 am (UTC)
unfeathered: (Ten eyebrow)
From: [personal profile] unfeathered
But literally minutes after I'd watched it, I was buying Classic Who DVDs online, and not thinking about the episode anymore.

Yeah, I have to admit, after that my son and I realised we really wanted to watch some *real* DW so we continued with our S4 rewatch and hell, even the Sontaran two-parter, which I've never rated particularly highly, felt amazing after this, and the Library two-parter felt incredible! I know I've criticised both RTD and Moffatt for plot holes and over-dramatising things, but hell, at least they gave me something to get excited about!

(no subject)

Date: 16 December 2018 02:44 pm (UTC)
masakochan: (Elementary - Sherlock - *frown*)
From: [personal profile] masakochan
This has been the first time (since I became a fan back in 2010) that I've still not gotten around to watching the finale yet, and that it's not driving me up and over the mental wall. which... definitely shows how disappointed I've been. Even if I still love the Doctor.

I think I'm mainly just sticking around 'cuz of how gay I am for Thirteen. x]

(no subject)

Date: 17 December 2018 02:16 am (UTC)
shadowkat: (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadowkat
I *want* Thirteen to be wonderful and amazing and her companions to have fabulous depth and for there to be story-arcs and something to sink my teeth into. But there isn't.

No, there really isn't. The only compelling episodes were the Rosa one and the Demons of Punjab, and neither gave us much on the Doctor or other characters, really.

I think there's a problem with the writers -- the overall tone reminds me of the problems I had with Broadchurch -- I liked the first season of Broadchurch, but rapidly lost interest. It just wasn't all that compelling.

Also, there's a lack of humor and fun here. It feels rather forced.

(no subject)

Date: 18 December 2018 01:29 am (UTC)
shadowkat: (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadowkat
Broadchurch was humorless, cop/small town procedural, delving into the lives of the town-people while investigating a horrible crime. S1 -- a child is murdered -- turns out by his molester. Olivia Coleman is amazing in it by the way, so is Jodi Whittacker as the mother of the murdered boy, Coleman plays a detective -- it's a small-town secrets tale. S2 - They investigate all these missing kids, who got killed. S3 - they investigate a rape. (See - dark stuff. And very angsty. Although it never dives into melodrama.)

Season 1 was really good. S2 was boring -- and drug. Season 3...sigh, only slightly better. He gets VERY issue oriented, and preachy in his writing, and isn't a comedy writer. Also lots of plot holes...not the tightest writer on the planet.

I honestly think he was a bad fit for Doctor Who. Doctor Who requires a writer who can do dramedy, which isn't easy to do, and handle sci-fantasy. Chinbal just feels off to me. Granted, I swung more towards Moffat than Davies -- mainly because I thought Moffat was better at comedy and plotting.

Doctor Who isn't really a hugely character driven series -- you don't have an ensemble cast like Broadchurch. It's more plot driven, with an episodic style. Also the main focus is usually on the Doctor -- companions come and go, so the companions add to his arc, not the other way around.

Chinball is more of a ensemble character driven writer than plot driven writer. He works better with large ensembles, and doesn't like to give much character arc to the leads -- he's not used to a central lead style episodic series. He's used to an ensemble style serial. In Broadchurch -- we got very little on David Tennant's world-weary detective -- at least not until S2, the focus was mainly on the supporting or subsidiary characters. And I'm seeing that happening here as well -- the focus is less on the Doctor, and more on the companions, specifically the character of Graham, which is okay, I guess. But why should I care about Graham?

I have a feeling after about a season or two, we'll get a new Doctor and a new show-runner. Which you can do with Doctor Who rather easily if it doesn't work. I do hope they stay with a female Who for a bit, or if not, an POC Who. I'm sort of tired of the White Guys.
Edited Date: 18 December 2018 01:37 am (UTC)

(no subject)

Date: 19 December 2018 01:20 am (UTC)
shadowkat: (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadowkat
I don't know, Doctor Who always felt very episodic to me, with some general arcs..sort of like a Monster of the Week, with a over-arching arc in the background.

Keep in mind I watch a lot of pure serials - such as Riverdale, Daredevil, Game of Thrones, Killing Eve, The Good Place,
BSG...huge serial fan. Not really a fan of the old monster of the week episodic series, with a running back story - such as Star Trek, Doctor Who, Buffy (up until approx S5, when the writers decided the heck with this, we suck at stand-a-lone's we're going full serial), Angel (up until S4), NCIS, Bones, etc.

Broadchurch was pure serial. You can't just jump in at any time in a pure serial series. I could jump in at any time for Who.

And while he did do Torchwood -- Torchwood had issues. Children of the Earth -- which I think was done by RT Davies (?) was better plot-wise in my opinion. Torchwood had plot-holes a plenty.

(no subject)

Date: 19 December 2018 08:29 am (UTC)
unfeathered: (Giles ook)
From: [personal profile] unfeathered
The thing about Broadchurch being humourless but this not being mentioned... I haven't seen it either so I'm only working on supposition here, but in my experience most British dramas are unrelentingly grim and humourless, to the extent where I mostly avoid them because I *like* some lighthearted relief to bring light and shade to my drama. This may be why no-one mentioned it about Broadchurch, because it's what they expected?

(no subject)

Date: 17 December 2018 11:33 pm (UTC)
ever_neutral: © me ([dw] anywhere you like)
From: [personal profile] ever_neutral
Yup.

I'm above all baffled that we just had an entire season of Doctor Who where the Doctor had zero character arc. The Doctor. How do you even write an entire DW season where the Doctor has no arc. ABSOLUTELY MYSTIFYING.

And of course the woman of colour is the companion the writers care least about.

Anyway, I did enjoy several episodes as self-contained specimens, but the season as a whole wasn't even half-baked as a narrative.

(no subject)

Date: 18 December 2018 08:40 am (UTC)
unfeathered: (Ten eyebrow)
From: [personal profile] unfeathered
Wow, there's a lot there! Very comprehensive. And it's really nice to know I'm not the only one feeling so underwhelmed by the season, even if it's still frustrating to be feeling it. The point these discussions really brought out for me is what I'd been edging towards but hadn't quite reached yet: this season was too safe. Too middle of the road, too passive, never challenging anything or taking any risks. No excitement.

And that's just weird, because if there's one thing I feel DW has never been before, it's safe!

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elisi: van Gogh almond flowers (Default)elisi
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