TSE/JE re-watch thoughts.

[elisi]

Soooo, we might have re-watched TSE/JE this evening...

My girls never fail to entertain. Re. Rose at the beginning of TSE, Impish Girl had this to say: "Ooh I'm just going to rip a whole in time and space, cause that's the best thing to do if you want to see someone. Lalalalala."

She seems to have got right to the heart of Doctor/Rose. *g* (I tried to explain that it was more complicated, but then Rose went and kinda contradicted me.)

She also expressed a desire to see the Men in Black. (Which would have been better than the American UNIT people, true. Although I loved the upgrade from 'Code Red' to 'Ultimate Code Red'.)

EVERYTHING with Wilf is AWESOME.

And Torchwood... *HEART STILL BROKEN*

Oh and re. the Doctor dying DRAMATICALLY in Rose's arms in the middle of the road, this was Impish Girl's reaction: "This is when Matt Smith should come along, all 'Shut up, I'm dying!' So much better!" *g*

OK, so we skipped the very end of JE (no need to see the sadness of Donna's end), but why do people not like the rest? OK, so it's COMPLETELY over the top and crammed full of EVERYTHING and MAD, but it's FUN and Ten is quite decent there for a while. That scene before they walk out onto the Crucible and he very carefully tells Donna and Jack and Rose that they were brilliant and then steps out to face the music? That's a beautiful scene. As is the bit right after when he's desperate to save Donna. (And the TARDIS is all proactive in keeping Donna inside so TenToo can be born. 'Tis VERY NEAT.) Mind you then Ten goes all emo again, which is a bit of a drawback... Because the thing about Ten is that he's far too good at lying to himself (and good grief, he's SUCH a hypocrite re. TenToo). Here, allow me to demonstrate:



I just can't help but think that if it had been Eleven there with Davros, with River trying to destroy something or other in order to save the day, the whole thing would have fallen completely flat...

Davros: 'LOOK SHE IS A MURDERER BECAUSE OF YOU!'
Eleven: 'And...?'

(Can't help myself. But seriously, imagine if Ten HAD regenerated at the end of TSE. Has anyone written JE with Eleven instead of Ten? I'd read the hell out of that. And no, I'm NOT writing it myself - I've already got the Seeker's version knocking about in my head. There are limits to how many different versions I can write of something. ANYWAY. Ten is waaaay too emo over all his Companions being badass.)

Other random thoughts: This episode again brought home how *incredibly* Earth-centric RTD-Who is. I don't suppose there's anything wrong with this per se, but compare with AGMGTW... Ten is completely focussed on humans, whereas Eleven has friends all over the place.

Oh and OMG the Doctor-worship is off the scale. Jack & Sarah Jane (and Rose) are all 'DOCTOR! I NEED THE DOCTOR!' Mind you it is sort-of balanced with Jackie being all 'I NEED TO FIND ROSE!' and Martha who is a) Focussed on her family, and b) focussed on her mission. Go Martha.

Aaaand I need to go to bed. Plz behave yourself. Thank you. ♥

Comments

[a-phoenixdragon.livejournal.com]

OMG...I almost wanna write it. Except there wouldn't be a lot to write. And everyone would wanna get a snog in on Eleven (cause that's the thing with him. Terrible Flirt, Eleventy). Really, it would be over in two minutes. And then he's be all 'THIS is what I was talking about, Amy. Planets in the Sky'. And he'd fix Donna, give Wilf a kitten and everyone would have jammie dodgers and tea afters.

But I still love TSE/JE...but yeah. Eleven would have handled it different. Kinda wish Martha would travel with him. He'd treat her SO MUCH BETTER.

*HUGS*

Sleep well, darling.

*KISSES*

[lyricwrites.livejournal.com]

Eleven would have handled it different. Kinda wish Martha would travel with him. He'd treat her SO MUCH BETTER.

I so need to write that.

Actually, I have a couple of fics sitting on my hard drive with Martha and Eleven and an original companion, but I'm . . . well, sitting on them. Mostly because they charge directly at race stuff, and (being a person of pastiness) I'm of two minds as to whether or not I should even be writing about it, for fear that I Fail. Also, my fic-brain has currently been hijacked by a mad muppet writing multiple possible backstories for Jenna-Louise's character, and getting stuff out of it requires more thumping than I can muster. And also, because I haven't been getting a lot of sleep lately due to the sex-starved mockingbird that has parked itself approximately three feet from my bedroom window and AARRGGHHHH—anyway.

Yeah, Eleven would handle the whole thing differently, but on the other hand, I think the Doctor really had to go through being Ten—complete with bizarre sort-of-anti-violence-but-not-really and the Oncoming Ego—to get to Eleven.

[a-phoenixdragon.livejournal.com]

YOU DO. YOU MUST.

I waaannnnttt. OMG. My brain just went 'There could be Epic!Fic by Lyricwrites' then promptly imploded. Thanks for that. *Cackles*

Ahhh, sweetie. You can never fail. And you've handled issues just as sensitive with grace and understanding. I would applaud anything you do with Martha and Eleven! As for the newer...I'd have to wait *bites nails* Damned mockingbird! DELAYING MY DELIGHTS!! *SHAKES FIST*

I do heartily agree. Still...tis fun to speculate how different Doctors would handle different situations. He grows as he goes. He needed to go through that to be who he is...but at the same time, he's just as dangerous, only quiet about it. Frightening, really. And this is why I adore Smith's Face. Damn him.

I need chocolate.

And Lyric Fic.

*Nudges you*

[masakochan.livejournal.com]

for fear that I Fail.

My inner optimist is going "Well, you probably couldn't have as much utter FAIL than in the Shakespeare episode where Martha tried to bring up people's views of her in that century, and Ten's just like, "Martha, how'd'ya think people see me? I'm am alien."

....who looks like average white guy. >_>

[elisi]

Actually, I have a couple of fics sitting on my hard drive with Martha and Eleven and an original companion, but I'm . . . well, sitting on them. Mostly because they charge directly at race stuff, and (being a person of pastiness) I'm of two minds as to whether or not I should even be writing about it, for fear that I Fail.
Oh I hear you. I have an OC in one of my fics who's gender neutral, and I swear, it's terrifying to write. But I'd still say 'have a go' - it's good to be scared and try new things.

[radiantbaby.livejournal.com]

I so need to write that.

Oooh, yes please.

*she says, as she stares at the plethora of unfinished Eleven/Martha fics she has on her own harddrive*

[promethia_tenk]

Except there wouldn't be a lot to write. And everyone would wanna get a snog in on Eleven (cause that's the thing with him. Terrible Flirt, Eleventy). Really, it would be over in two minutes. And then he's be all 'THIS is what I was talking about, Amy. Planets in the Sky'. And he'd fix Donna, give Wilf a kitten and everyone would have jammie dodgers and tea afters.

I'm failing to see the downside here.

Mind you, I think plot is usually just a mistake.

[elisi]

It's VERY TEMPTING isn't it? All the EMO would just vanish and Davros would be all befuddled and Rose would be confused... Oooooh, and then future!Eleven could turn up, all 'By the way, the crack is going to eat all this, so I wouldn't worry too much about it...'

And he'd fix Donna, give Wilf a kitten and everyone would have jammie dodgers and tea afters.
*sniff* (I've actually written a fic where Eleven meets Donna. It might make you cry.)

But I still love TSE/JE...but yeah. Eleven would have handled it different. Kinda wish Martha would travel with him. He'd treat her SO MUCH BETTER.
*points to own fic for proof of this* I would LOVE to see this. (It's like Jack...) Although I re-watched parts of S3 recently and I'd obviously managed to suppress just HOW much of a bastard he was. I mostly just wanted to slap him a lot.

(The Seeker's version of JE is COMPLETELY different since it's all wildly AU and there's no Donna or Handy or Rose or Martha or Sarah Jane or Mickey. Although the Seeker sorta breaks the Doctor's heart. But that's life.)

[(Anonymous)]

Actually, I found the script version and rewrote it about a year ago with Eleven instead of Ten. Ahh, the bounties of unemployment...

Let me know if you want a gander. I could email it to you. It's not much, but you might enjoy it.

[elisi]

Sounds v. interesting! Yes, I'd love a look. elisi at livejournal dot com

Thank you! :)

[calapine.livejournal.com]

why do people not like the rest? OK, so it's COMPLETELY over the top and crammed full of EVERYTHING and MAD, but it's FUN

I HOPE THAT WASN'T RHETORICAL. Also, THIS IS NOT A CHEERY ANSWER:

It's that last bit where it fails for me - I find that it completely lost its sense of fun. Everything became over the top grim and tried for deep but forgot that, heh, no substance to this thing, so it just looked silly and miserable instead, which is a v unsatisfying combo.

And I did quite hate the Doctor looking a right twit, letting Davros dominate that conversation, possibly he could've tried arguing instead of Moar Emo Face.

I just can't help but think that if it had been Eleven there with Davros, with River trying to destroy something or other in order to save the day, the whole thing would have fallen completely flat...

I would've loved to have Six there. HE WOULD HAVE TOLD HIM WHAT FOR. Or One. Damn, that'd've been good.

Davros: 'LOOK SHE IS A MURDERER BECAUSE OF YOU!'
Eleven: 'And...?'

Where you see flat, I see LOLARIOUS. THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN A GREAT MOMENT.

[elisi]

It's that last bit where it fails for me - I find that it completely lost its sense of fun. Everything became over the top grim and tried for deep but forgot that, heh, no substance to this thing, so it just looked silly and miserable instead, which is a v unsatisfying combo.
The Donna bit? Yeah, I understand that. My kids are still upset about her fate, and that's not good... (They also think it's very sad that Amy lost her baby and couldn't bring her up, but they accept that this is how the story goes, and of course it's all there to demonstrate something vital about the Doctor etc. But Donna is just SAD and upsetting.)

And I did quite hate the Doctor looking a right twit, letting Davros dominate that conversation, possibly he could've tried arguing instead of Moar Emo Face
They're all being AWESOME and he's just moping. But it's all part of the Ten Is The Most Important Person In The Universe, and Everything Only Matters In Relation To Him Syndrome which RTD Who is afflicted by.

I would've loved to have Six there. HE WOULD HAVE TOLD HIM WHAT FOR. Or One. Damn, that'd've been good.
And Seven... (I have a soft spot for Seven, And now I want to rewatch Remembrance of the Daleks, because he is NOT emo AT ALL, just a total BAMF. *wibbles*)

Where you see flat, I see LOLARIOUS. THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN A GREAT MOMENT.
Well that's what I meant. Flat for Davros, because of whole thing collapsing & having misjudged it. *g*

[fuzzyboo03.livejournal.com]

"Davros: 'LOOK SHE IS A MURDERER BECAUSE OF YOU!'
Eleven: 'And...?'"

*giggles madly*

[elisi]

*grins*

See other comments for further (and better) versions. :)

[promethia_tenk]

OK, so we skipped the very end of JE (no need to see the sadness of Donna's end), but why do people not like the rest? OK, so it's COMPLETELY over the top and crammed full of EVERYTHING and MAD, but it's FUN and Ten is quite decent there for a while.

*shakes head* How do we get on at all?

But, really.

[elisi]

*grins* Magic?

By the way, what are your feeling on the S3 finale & Tinkerbell!Jesus? For comparisons sake...

[promethia_tenk]

She seems to have got right to the heart of Doctor/Rose. *g* (I tried to explain that it was more complicated, but then Rose went and kinda contradicted me.)
*gigglesnort*

She also expressed a desire to see the Men in Black. (Which would have been better than the American UNIT people, true. Although I loved the upgrade from 'Code Red' to 'Ultimate Code Red'.)
THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER! Also, there was a moment where the Daleks are talking about "ultimate destiny," and then I had to find this vid and watch it again and wonder, again, why I have not yet watched The Middleman: Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny. I may have slight fears that no show can actually live up to what I'm imagining.

Oh and OMG the Doctor-worship is off the scale. Jack & Sarah Jane (and Rose) are all 'DOCTOR! I NEED THE DOCTOR!'
THIS IS ALSO A PROBLEM I HAVE WITH IT TOO. But that basically goes without saying by this point. You know when you can parody something without having to rewrite a word of it? THAT IS THE DOCTOR-WORSHIP IN THIS EPISODE.

[lyricwrites.livejournal.com]

I just can't help but think that if it had been Eleven there with Davros, with River trying to destroy something or other in order to save the day, the whole thing would have fallen completely flat...

Davros: 'LOOK SHE IS A MURDERER BECAUSE OF YOU!'
Eleven: 'And...?'

Mm . . . no. Not quite, I don't think.

Davros: LOOK WHAT YOU'VE MADE HER INTO, DOCTOR! THE MAN OF PEACE, WHO MAKES A WEAPON OUT OF EVERYONE HE TOUCHES—
Eleven: And you're staring right down the barrel of all of them. Care to re-evaluate your position?

Although I do think that Eleven would have something of a crisis over Martha and the Osterhagen Key. She'd call him on it; you know, "If it came down to a planet or the universe, which would you choose?"

At which point, he would just lose it for a second or two and say, "OF COURSE! I CHOSE! THE UNIVERSE! And then while Martha is still processing chose, with this look of dawning horror on her face, he'd get himself under control again and do his best to pretend the previous moment never happened at all.

[tenalto2.livejournal.com]

That entire thing is gold, but
At which point, he would just lose it for a second or two and say, "OF COURSE! I CHOSE! THE UNIVERSE! And then while Martha is still processing chose, with this look of dawning horror on her face, he'd get himself under control again and do his best to pretend the previous moment never happened at all.
literally made me flail with feels because THAT IS JUST WHAT WOULD HAPPEN. I, I, don't even. That's perfect. Please write this thing!

[elisi]

Davros: LOOK WHAT YOU'VE MADE HER INTO, DOCTOR! THE MAN OF PEACE, WHO MAKES A WEAPON OUT OF EVERYONE HE TOUCHES—
Eleven: And you're staring right down the barrel of all of them. Care to re-evaluate your position?
Mmmmm. It was late, I was very tired. Your version is definitely better & more likely. Although I'm also rather partial to:

Davros: LOOK WHAT YOU'VE MADE HER INTO, DOCTOR! THE MAN OF PEACE, WHO MAKES A WEAPON OUT OF EVERYONE HE TOUCHES—
River: Yeah. He thinks it's hot.
Davros: ...
Eleven (blushes): Well... Yes. And she has this thing for handcuffs which... (catches himself) Which means you should back down.

At which point, he would just lose it for a second or two and say, "OF COURSE! I CHOSE! THE UNIVERSE! And then while Martha is still processing chose, with this look of dawning horror on her face, he'd get himself under control again and do his best to pretend the previous moment never happened at all.
WHICH IS WHY YOU SHOULD WRITE THIS OMG!

[promethia_tenk]

At which point, he would just lose it for a second or two and say, "OF COURSE! I CHOSE! THE UNIVERSE! And then while Martha is still processing chose, with this look of dawning horror on her face, he'd get himself under control again and do his best to pretend the previous moment never happened at all.

*strangled noises* Perfection.

[annapurna-2.livejournal.com]

I don't follow the Dr. Who fandom (even though I love the show), so I wasn't aware a lot of people didn't like this. I heart it, even with Donna's totally heartbreaking end. She's still my fave companion. Donna Noble rocks!

And Wilf!!!! I heart him to infinity and beyond. Heh.

[elisi]

I don't follow the Dr. Who fandom (even though I love the show), so I wasn't aware a lot of people didn't like this. I heart it, even with Donna's totally heartbreaking end.
Yeah, I never had a problem - and often it's best to stay away from fandom! *g* (Not that I can't understand people's objections, but I am able to ignore them!)

She's still my fave companion. Donna Noble rocks!
There's only one Donna!

And Wilf!!!! I heart him to infinity and beyond. Heh.
Wilf is everything that is good. (More or less. And you know that the actor was in the Doctor Who movie waaaaaay back in the day, right?)

[sensiblecat.livejournal.com]

I never understood that silly look Ten and Rose gave each other after she mentioned the Dimension Cannon. Because it had already been established that she'd built it because the stars were going out and she believed only the Doctor could help. It was a moment when even a huge shipper like myself wanted to slap Rose on the face. I guess RTD wanted to make some point about how Ten lets Rose get away with things he'd never allow other people to do, but it was massively inconsistent with the Rose we saw in Turn Left and I was very cross with him. Way to pander to the Rose-haters, RTD!

[elisi]

Uh-huh. I remember being v. disappointed with Rose in the last two episodes, because she was SO BAMF in Turn Left, and then suddenly she turned into this one-tracked character. 'Twas sad. Ah well, that's how Rusty sees her, so there's not much we can do...