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TSE/JE re-watch thoughts.
Soooo, we might have re-watched TSE/JE this evening...
My girls never fail to entertain. Re. Rose at the beginning of TSE, Impish Girl had this to say: "Ooh I'm just going to rip a whole in time and space, cause that's the best thing to do if you want to see someone. Lalalalala."
She seems to have got right to the heart of Doctor/Rose. *g* (I tried to explain that it was more complicated, but then Rose went and kinda contradicted me.)
She also expressed a desire to see the Men in Black. (Which would have been better than the American UNIT people, true. Although I loved the upgrade from 'Code Red' to 'Ultimate Code Red'.)
EVERYTHING with Wilf is AWESOME.
And Torchwood... *HEART STILL BROKEN*
Oh and re. the Doctor dying DRAMATICALLY in Rose's arms in the middle of the road, this was Impish Girl's reaction: "This is when Matt Smith should come along, all 'Shut up, I'm dying!' So much better!" *g*
OK, so we skipped the very end of JE (no need to see the sadness of Donna's end), but why do people not like the rest? OK, so it's COMPLETELY over the top and crammed full of EVERYTHING and MAD, but it's FUN and Ten is quite decent there for a while. That scene before they walk out onto the Crucible and he very carefully tells Donna and Jack and Rose that they were brilliant and then steps out to face the music? That's a beautiful scene. As is the bit right after when he's desperate to save Donna. (And the TARDIS is all proactive in keeping Donna inside so TenToo can be born. 'Tis VERY NEAT.) Mind you then Ten goes all emo again, which is a bit of a drawback... Because the thing about Ten is that he's far too good at lying to himself (and good grief, he's SUCH a hypocrite re. TenToo). Here, allow me to demonstrate:
I just can't help but think that if it had been Eleven there with Davros, with River trying to destroy something or other in order to save the day, the whole thing would have fallen completely flat...
Davros: 'LOOK SHE IS A MURDERER BECAUSE OF YOU!'
Eleven: 'And...?'
(Can't help myself. But seriously, imagine if Ten HAD regenerated at the end of TSE. Has anyone written JE with Eleven instead of Ten? I'd read the hell out of that. And no, I'm NOT writing it myself - I've already got the Seeker's version knocking about in my head. There are limits to how many different versions I can write of something. ANYWAY. Ten is waaaay too emo over all his Companions being badass.)
Other random thoughts: This episode again brought home how *incredibly* Earth-centric RTD-Who is. I don't suppose there's anything wrong with this per se, but compare with AGMGTW... Ten is completely focussed on humans, whereas Eleven has friends all over the place.
Oh and OMG the Doctor-worship is off the scale. Jack & Sarah Jane (and Rose) are all 'DOCTOR! I NEED THE DOCTOR!' Mind you it is sort-of balanced with Jackie being all 'I NEED TO FIND ROSE!' and Martha who is a) Focussed on her family, and b) focussed on her mission. Go Martha.
Aaaand I need to go to bed. Plz behave yourself. Thank you. ♥
My girls never fail to entertain. Re. Rose at the beginning of TSE, Impish Girl had this to say: "Ooh I'm just going to rip a whole in time and space, cause that's the best thing to do if you want to see someone. Lalalalala."
She seems to have got right to the heart of Doctor/Rose. *g* (I tried to explain that it was more complicated, but then Rose went and kinda contradicted me.)
She also expressed a desire to see the Men in Black. (Which would have been better than the American UNIT people, true. Although I loved the upgrade from 'Code Red' to 'Ultimate Code Red'.)
EVERYTHING with Wilf is AWESOME.
And Torchwood... *HEART STILL BROKEN*
Oh and re. the Doctor dying DRAMATICALLY in Rose's arms in the middle of the road, this was Impish Girl's reaction: "This is when Matt Smith should come along, all 'Shut up, I'm dying!' So much better!" *g*
OK, so we skipped the very end of JE (no need to see the sadness of Donna's end), but why do people not like the rest? OK, so it's COMPLETELY over the top and crammed full of EVERYTHING and MAD, but it's FUN and Ten is quite decent there for a while. That scene before they walk out onto the Crucible and he very carefully tells Donna and Jack and Rose that they were brilliant and then steps out to face the music? That's a beautiful scene. As is the bit right after when he's desperate to save Donna. (And the TARDIS is all proactive in keeping Donna inside so TenToo can be born. 'Tis VERY NEAT.) Mind you then Ten goes all emo again, which is a bit of a drawback... Because the thing about Ten is that he's far too good at lying to himself (and good grief, he's SUCH a hypocrite re. TenToo). Here, allow me to demonstrate:
I just can't help but think that if it had been Eleven there with Davros, with River trying to destroy something or other in order to save the day, the whole thing would have fallen completely flat...
Davros: 'LOOK SHE IS A MURDERER BECAUSE OF YOU!'
Eleven: 'And...?'
(Can't help myself. But seriously, imagine if Ten HAD regenerated at the end of TSE. Has anyone written JE with Eleven instead of Ten? I'd read the hell out of that. And no, I'm NOT writing it myself - I've already got the Seeker's version knocking about in my head. There are limits to how many different versions I can write of something. ANYWAY. Ten is waaaay too emo over all his Companions being badass.)
Other random thoughts: This episode again brought home how *incredibly* Earth-centric RTD-Who is. I don't suppose there's anything wrong with this per se, but compare with AGMGTW... Ten is completely focussed on humans, whereas Eleven has friends all over the place.
Oh and OMG the Doctor-worship is off the scale. Jack & Sarah Jane (and Rose) are all 'DOCTOR! I NEED THE DOCTOR!' Mind you it is sort-of balanced with Jackie being all 'I NEED TO FIND ROSE!' and Martha who is a) Focussed on her family, and b) focussed on her mission. Go Martha.
Aaaand I need to go to bed. Plz behave yourself. Thank you. ♥
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*shakes head* How do we get on at all?
But, really.
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By the way, what are your feeling on the S3 finale & Tinkerbell!Jesus? For comparisons sake...
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By the way, what are your feeling on the S3 finale & Tinkerbell!Jesus? For comparisons sake...
I think it's become my favorite of the four season finales? That's not an endorsement! But I can see how people *can* like that one. I've got a truckload of issues with it, but those are mostly philosophical. It's probably the pinacle of my disagreement with Rusty about his handling of the Doctor (because from that point on he's truly falling apart and at least you're seeing consequences, where this still feels basically celebratory).
As a piece of television, though, I think they're faaaaaaar better done than TSE/JE. They're much more focused; they have real weight to them. And I'll admit that the batshit spectacle and magical thinking irked me when I was first watching, but I've come to love those when Moff does them, so I suppose my beef wasn't really with the insanity, just what it was being used for.
Annnnd my feelings about Tinkerbell!Jesus Doctor are pretty much just my feelings about the whole finale condensed into two minutes.
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And many other parts, really. But on balance, comparatively good.
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This is why having your own pocket universe is a good thing. From one of my Alex fics (the context is basically that he and the Doctor are arguing because the Doctor has forced Alex to go to university for an undisclosed 'crime' on Alex's part, and Alex is NOT happy with this - Allison, his girlfriend, is eavesdropping):
Kids, eh? *g*
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Well it's total crack. I just like crack. (Also see my love of Torchwood...)
I think it's become my favorite of the four season finales? That's not an endorsement! But I can see how people *can* like that one.
I am genuinely giggling now.
I've got a truckload of issues with it, but those are mostly philosophical. It's probably the pinacle of my disagreement with Rusty about his handling of the Doctor (because from that point on he's truly falling apart and at least you're seeing consequences, where this still feels basically celebratory).
Ah yes. Although... I always went straight for all the layers - the Doctor turns VERY dark in S3 (esp re. the Family of Blood), and the Master is so *obviously* his (very uncomfortable) mirror - showing what the Doctor could - oh so very easily - become. Sure it does that thing of making the Doctor look good (which isn't hard in comparison with an evil megalomaniac), but still... Look beneath and everything is murky.
As a piece of television, though, I think they're faaaaaaar better done than TSE/JE. They're much more focused; they have real weight to them. And I'll admit that the batshit spectacle and magical thinking irked me when I was first watching, but I've come to love those when Moff does them, so I suppose my beef wasn't really with the insanity, just what it was being used for.
*nods a lot* S4 has themes, but the finale is just this giant extravaganza, whereas S3 is beautifully focussed.
Annnnd my feelings about Tinkerbell!Jesus Doctor are pretty much just my feelings about the whole finale condensed into two minutes.
That is actually a good description.
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I like crack too . . . but these episodes cross some crucial line where I can't *both* enjoy them as crack and have any kind of investment at all in anything that's happening. You know I've never actually managed to really watch what happened to Donna? It's not because I find it too upsetting; it's just every time I've tried I've stopped caring looooonnnng before. Consequently, I'm not sure that I actually have opinions on Donna's fate :-\
Ah yes. Although... I always went straight for all the layers - the Doctor turns VERY dark in S3 (esp re. the Family of Blood), and the Master is so *obviously* his (very uncomfortable) mirror - showing what the Doctor could - oh so very easily - become. Sure it does that thing of making the Doctor look good (which isn't hard in comparison with an evil megalomaniac), but still... Look beneath and everything is murky.
Euh, unfortunately that doesn't do much for my desire to smack Rusty. At least he had the Master go through with dying. There was a terrifying moment when I thought maybe he wouldn't and I was going to have to never watch this show again.
*nods a lot* S4 has themes, but the finale is just this giant extravaganza, whereas S3 is beautifully focussed.
There's a lot of cheap spectacle in S3 . . . . but at least it's not empty.
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Now I'm wondering where my high crack-tolerance level came from... *ponders*
You know I've never actually managed to really watch what happened to Donna? It's not because I find it too upsetting; it's just every time I've tried I've stopped caring looooonnnng before. Consequently, I'm not sure that I actually have opinions on Donna's fate :-\
I'd consider that a plus.
Euh, unfortunately that doesn't do much for my desire to smack Rusty.
EVERYONE IS A MONSTER, EVEN THE DOCTOR. EXCEPT HE IS WONDERFUL, BECAUSE HE'S THE HERO. [error error does not compute and Bowie Base One explodes]
There's a lot of cheap spectacle in S3 . . . . but at least it's not empty.
Oooooh no. *is still in thrall to show 5 years later b/c of S3*
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In my personal version of the show Donna just sorta stopped being in episodes and the Doctor couldn't talk to her any more. I guess the Doctor stole Donna's prom date or something. The season four finale was when they all went to the prom, wasn't it? And then Davros spiked the punch and Rose made out with the clone of the captain of the football team. See, I was watching!
EVERYONE IS A MONSTER, EVEN THE DOCTOR. EXCEPT HE IS WONDERFUL, BECAUSE HE'S THE HERO. [error error does not compute and Bowie Base One explodes]
*smack*
OT: I really need this Prometheus movie to go away rather soon--I'm continually fighting off the feeling that people are talking about me.
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Just some belated adoration for this. Rarely have I seen such a succinct and admirably level-headed summary of the events of those episodes.
*smack*
*snerk* But it's rather accurate, y/y?
OT: I really need this Prometheus movie to go away rather soon--I'm continually fighting off the feeling that people are talking about me.
THIS. I keep wanting to go see it, and then I realise that it's just because I subconsciously associate it with you, and I really have no particular interest in Alien...
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Prometheus
Watched it tonight. It's... a thing.
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*gigglesnort*
She also expressed a desire to see the Men in Black. (Which would have been better than the American UNIT people, true. Although I loved the upgrade from 'Code Red' to 'Ultimate Code Red'.)
THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER! Also, there was a moment where the Daleks are talking about "ultimate destiny," and then I had to find this vid and watch it again and wonder, again, why I have not yet watched The Middleman: Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny. I may have slight fears that no show can actually live up to what I'm imagining.
Oh and OMG the Doctor-worship is off the scale. Jack & Sarah Jane (and Rose) are all 'DOCTOR! I NEED THE DOCTOR!'
THIS IS ALSO A PROBLEM I HAVE WITH IT TOO. But that basically goes without saying by this point. You know when you can parody something without having to rewrite a word of it? THAT IS THE DOCTOR-WORSHIP IN THIS EPISODE.
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My kids are smart, yo.
THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER!
Bigger guns for a start. And proper American accents. (OH GOD THEY ARE SO BAD! /o\)
Also, there was a moment where the Daleks are talking about "ultimate destiny," and then I had to find this vid and watch it again and wonder, again, why I have not yet watched The Middleman: Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny. I may have slight fears that no show can actually live up to what I'm imagining.
Will check that out when I have time, promise.
THIS IS ALSO A PROBLEM I HAVE WITH IT TOO. But that basically goes without saying by this point. You know when you can parody something without having to rewrite a word of it? THAT IS THE DOCTOR-WORSHIP IN THIS EPISODE.
It's worse in EoT (IMHO). I just don't understand why Wilf loves him so much. At least all the former Companions have lots of reasons (which override any sense they happen to possess... /o\), but Wilf? Donna must have written some cracking letters.
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Every time Rusty tries to do Americans I want to die. Laughing.
Will check that out when I have time, promise.
MmmmHmmm. You should, though. 'Tis MADE OF DELIGHT AND MADNESS. And the song will be stuck in your head every time you watch a Rusty finale for the rest of forever.
It's worse in EoT (IMHO). I just don't understand why Wilf loves him so much. At least all the former Companions have lots of reasons (which override any sense they happen to possess... /o\), but Wilf? Donna must have written some cracking letters.
Huh. It doesn't actually bother me in Wilf. *ponders* Strange.
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I think he's a little bit in love with them...
And the song will be stuck in your head every time you watch a Rusty finale for the rest of forever.
This is a good reason.
Huh. It doesn't actually bother me in Wilf. *ponders* Strange.
It does bother me bother me, because he's Wilf and clearly he's just the nicest, kindest, most loving grandfather in the world. But if I look at it logically... The Doctor did HORRIBLE things to Donna and Wilf just forgives him absolutely and keeps thinking he's the Best Man In The World. But he's Wilf, so he gets away with it.
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It's a little cringe-worthy in most of DW, but I'm pretty sure his Miracle Day Americanism was satirical genius *squishes MD*
The Doctor did HORRIBLE things to Donna and Wilf just forgives him absolutely and keeps thinking he's the Best Man In The World. But he's Wilf, so he gets away with it.
How did this NEVER EVEN OCCUR TO ME?!?!
*blinks*
WILF! *shakes fist*
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Well that would certainly increase my appreciation of it.
How did this NEVER EVEN OCCUR TO ME?!?!
Because he looks at you with those big sad eyes and logical thoughts cease all all you want is to make him happy.
Incidentally this sorta made me grumble about Donna's end (again). Well not her end, but the general fannish response. OK, so the whole thing is rather awkard - man forcing his will on a woman begging him to stop - but. I always thought the Doctor did the right thing, and the longer I think about it, the more I think it was right. Firstly because of her family - turning up on their doorstep saying 'By the way Donna is dead. I could have saved her - at a cost - but didn't. She's better off dead, really.'
Which brings me to my second point: Is DEATH preferable to a life without travelling with the Doctor? Really? Is that a message that should be put across? Of course Donna in that moment is desperate to keep hold of her memories, just as the Doctor was desperate to save the people on Mars. Doesn't mean he was right, or at all capable of rational thought at that moment in time...
Maybe it's a symptom of RTD era Who or something similar, like how most of the Companions abandon family, friends & loved ones to run after the Doctor without second's hesitation. Like Rose's 'There's nothing for me here' in Parting of the Ways'.
And yet the Doctor is always extolling the fabulousness of ordinary life.... *pokes show* This is that whole issue again, isn't it? Obligatory quote re. Amy's Choice:
Amy is shown loving Rory, but not sharing his ideal dream. Finally, it is openly stated that you can love someone truly and deeply and NOT want the exact same things from life, or be expected to. The romantic component aside, the real crux of the episode seemed to be asking whether you choose the life you love or the people you love -- and the kicker was, neither choice was the 'real' one; both were illusionary. The truth lies somewhere in the middle, in the adult world of compromises and responsibility, and neither running away to space or moving to Upper Leadworth is the real solution.
OH GOD I'M RAMBLING AGAIN STOP ME.
(Srsly, ignore me. It's been a looooooong day.)
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=D omg, it is fantastic:
You know how in comic books there's all kinds of mad scientists and aliens and androids and monsters and all of them want to either destroy or take over the world?
In comic books, sure.
Well, it really does work like that.
The vast discontinuity of ducks
Too slow. IT WAS STUCK IN A CRACK IN SPACE.
I kid you not.
O_o
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That's just not fair. How and when am I going to watch this?
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Ok, it probably wouldn't change your life, but it is utterly daft fun and very well done and the dialogue is GOLD. And Wendy, the main character on the left there, is very excellent too.
It's a bit like if Men in Black and Pushiing Daisies had a bastard love child that had a few too many metacrack pills and was then raised by Lorelai Gilmore.
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Oh . . . look, the vampire puppet episode!
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(I checked - it's on amazon, but only region 1, and we no longer have a multi-region DVD player. BOO.)
Although I shall just curl up and snark that clearly they have no original ideas.
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