TSE/JE re-watch thoughts.

[elisi]

Soooo, we might have re-watched TSE/JE this evening...

My girls never fail to entertain. Re. Rose at the beginning of TSE, Impish Girl had this to say: "Ooh I'm just going to rip a whole in time and space, cause that's the best thing to do if you want to see someone. Lalalalala."

She seems to have got right to the heart of Doctor/Rose. *g* (I tried to explain that it was more complicated, but then Rose went and kinda contradicted me.)

She also expressed a desire to see the Men in Black. (Which would have been better than the American UNIT people, true. Although I loved the upgrade from 'Code Red' to 'Ultimate Code Red'.)

EVERYTHING with Wilf is AWESOME.

And Torchwood... *HEART STILL BROKEN*

Oh and re. the Doctor dying DRAMATICALLY in Rose's arms in the middle of the road, this was Impish Girl's reaction: "This is when Matt Smith should come along, all 'Shut up, I'm dying!' So much better!" *g*

OK, so we skipped the very end of JE (no need to see the sadness of Donna's end), but why do people not like the rest? OK, so it's COMPLETELY over the top and crammed full of EVERYTHING and MAD, but it's FUN and Ten is quite decent there for a while. That scene before they walk out onto the Crucible and he very carefully tells Donna and Jack and Rose that they were brilliant and then steps out to face the music? That's a beautiful scene. As is the bit right after when he's desperate to save Donna. (And the TARDIS is all proactive in keeping Donna inside so TenToo can be born. 'Tis VERY NEAT.) Mind you then Ten goes all emo again, which is a bit of a drawback... Because the thing about Ten is that he's far too good at lying to himself (and good grief, he's SUCH a hypocrite re. TenToo). Here, allow me to demonstrate:



I just can't help but think that if it had been Eleven there with Davros, with River trying to destroy something or other in order to save the day, the whole thing would have fallen completely flat...

Davros: 'LOOK SHE IS A MURDERER BECAUSE OF YOU!'
Eleven: 'And...?'

(Can't help myself. But seriously, imagine if Ten HAD regenerated at the end of TSE. Has anyone written JE with Eleven instead of Ten? I'd read the hell out of that. And no, I'm NOT writing it myself - I've already got the Seeker's version knocking about in my head. There are limits to how many different versions I can write of something. ANYWAY. Ten is waaaay too emo over all his Companions being badass.)

Other random thoughts: This episode again brought home how *incredibly* Earth-centric RTD-Who is. I don't suppose there's anything wrong with this per se, but compare with AGMGTW... Ten is completely focussed on humans, whereas Eleven has friends all over the place.

Oh and OMG the Doctor-worship is off the scale. Jack & Sarah Jane (and Rose) are all 'DOCTOR! I NEED THE DOCTOR!' Mind you it is sort-of balanced with Jackie being all 'I NEED TO FIND ROSE!' and Martha who is a) Focussed on her family, and b) focussed on her mission. Go Martha.

Aaaand I need to go to bed. Plz behave yourself. Thank you. ♥

Comments

[a-phoenixdragon.livejournal.com]

OMG...I almost wanna write it. Except there wouldn't be a lot to write. And everyone would wanna get a snog in on Eleven (cause that's the thing with him. Terrible Flirt, Eleventy). Really, it would be over in two minutes. And then he's be all 'THIS is what I was talking about, Amy. Planets in the Sky'. And he'd fix Donna, give Wilf a kitten and everyone would have jammie dodgers and tea afters.

But I still love TSE/JE...but yeah. Eleven would have handled it different. Kinda wish Martha would travel with him. He'd treat her SO MUCH BETTER.

*HUGS*

Sleep well, darling.

*KISSES*

[(Anonymous)]

Actually, I found the script version and rewrote it about a year ago with Eleven instead of Ten. Ahh, the bounties of unemployment...

Let me know if you want a gander. I could email it to you. It's not much, but you might enjoy it.

[lyricwrites.livejournal.com]

Eleven would have handled it different. Kinda wish Martha would travel with him. He'd treat her SO MUCH BETTER.

I so need to write that.

Actually, I have a couple of fics sitting on my hard drive with Martha and Eleven and an original companion, but I'm . . . well, sitting on them. Mostly because they charge directly at race stuff, and (being a person of pastiness) I'm of two minds as to whether or not I should even be writing about it, for fear that I Fail. Also, my fic-brain has currently been hijacked by a mad muppet writing multiple possible backstories for Jenna-Louise's character, and getting stuff out of it requires more thumping than I can muster. And also, because I haven't been getting a lot of sleep lately due to the sex-starved mockingbird that has parked itself approximately three feet from my bedroom window and AARRGGHHHH—anyway.

Yeah, Eleven would handle the whole thing differently, but on the other hand, I think the Doctor really had to go through being Ten—complete with bizarre sort-of-anti-violence-but-not-really and the Oncoming Ego—to get to Eleven.

[calapine.livejournal.com]

why do people not like the rest? OK, so it's COMPLETELY over the top and crammed full of EVERYTHING and MAD, but it's FUN

I HOPE THAT WASN'T RHETORICAL. Also, THIS IS NOT A CHEERY ANSWER:

It's that last bit where it fails for me - I find that it completely lost its sense of fun. Everything became over the top grim and tried for deep but forgot that, heh, no substance to this thing, so it just looked silly and miserable instead, which is a v unsatisfying combo.

And I did quite hate the Doctor looking a right twit, letting Davros dominate that conversation, possibly he could've tried arguing instead of Moar Emo Face.

I just can't help but think that if it had been Eleven there with Davros, with River trying to destroy something or other in order to save the day, the whole thing would have fallen completely flat...

I would've loved to have Six there. HE WOULD HAVE TOLD HIM WHAT FOR. Or One. Damn, that'd've been good.

Davros: 'LOOK SHE IS A MURDERER BECAUSE OF YOU!'
Eleven: 'And...?'

Where you see flat, I see LOLARIOUS. THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN A GREAT MOMENT.

[a-phoenixdragon.livejournal.com]

YOU DO. YOU MUST.

I waaannnnttt. OMG. My brain just went 'There could be Epic!Fic by Lyricwrites' then promptly imploded. Thanks for that. *Cackles*

Ahhh, sweetie. You can never fail. And you've handled issues just as sensitive with grace and understanding. I would applaud anything you do with Martha and Eleven! As for the newer...I'd have to wait *bites nails* Damned mockingbird! DELAYING MY DELIGHTS!! *SHAKES FIST*

I do heartily agree. Still...tis fun to speculate how different Doctors would handle different situations. He grows as he goes. He needed to go through that to be who he is...but at the same time, he's just as dangerous, only quiet about it. Frightening, really. And this is why I adore Smith's Face. Damn him.

I need chocolate.

And Lyric Fic.

*Nudges you*

[fuzzyboo03.livejournal.com]

"Davros: 'LOOK SHE IS A MURDERER BECAUSE OF YOU!'
Eleven: 'And...?'"

*giggles madly*

[promethia_tenk]

OK, so we skipped the very end of JE (no need to see the sadness of Donna's end), but why do people not like the rest? OK, so it's COMPLETELY over the top and crammed full of EVERYTHING and MAD, but it's FUN and Ten is quite decent there for a while.

*shakes head* How do we get on at all?

But, really.

[promethia_tenk]

Except there wouldn't be a lot to write. And everyone would wanna get a snog in on Eleven (cause that's the thing with him. Terrible Flirt, Eleventy). Really, it would be over in two minutes. And then he's be all 'THIS is what I was talking about, Amy. Planets in the Sky'. And he'd fix Donna, give Wilf a kitten and everyone would have jammie dodgers and tea afters.

I'm failing to see the downside here.

Mind you, I think plot is usually just a mistake.

[a-phoenixdragon.livejournal.com]

*Stifles giggles*

Can I just say - right now - that I love you to distraction?

Hang on a tick. Just said it.

Think I'll consider that permission granted.

*Sniffs*

Or I could always throw ideas at wall, see what sticks and apply tea to any bits that don't fit. And to my audience. Tea fixes everything.

*Cackles*

[lyricwrites.livejournal.com]

My brain just went 'There could be Epic!Fic by Lyricwrites' then promptly imploded.

Heh, the thing on my hard drive isn't epic so much as reflective, but thank you for the kind words.

I'll post a general question-y musing thing on my LJ tomorrow or Monday, methinks, because this is an issue I've been driving myself nuts on in more than one sphere of fiction writing. Tomorrow or Monday, some time when I have slightly more active brain cells.

[a-phoenixdragon.livejournal.com]

Hmmm...you post and I'll be the judge of THAT one.

Need me to send a peashooter for the mockingbird? Never know, might be the biggest thrill it gets all week!

*HUGS*

*Waits for Monday*

[lyricwrites.livejournal.com]

I just can't help but think that if it had been Eleven there with Davros, with River trying to destroy something or other in order to save the day, the whole thing would have fallen completely flat...

Davros: 'LOOK SHE IS A MURDERER BECAUSE OF YOU!'
Eleven: 'And...?'

Mm . . . no. Not quite, I don't think.

Davros: LOOK WHAT YOU'VE MADE HER INTO, DOCTOR! THE MAN OF PEACE, WHO MAKES A WEAPON OUT OF EVERYONE HE TOUCHES—
Eleven: And you're staring right down the barrel of all of them. Care to re-evaluate your position?

Although I do think that Eleven would have something of a crisis over Martha and the Osterhagen Key. She'd call him on it; you know, "If it came down to a planet or the universe, which would you choose?"

At which point, he would just lose it for a second or two and say, "OF COURSE! I CHOSE! THE UNIVERSE! And then while Martha is still processing chose, with this look of dawning horror on her face, he'd get himself under control again and do his best to pretend the previous moment never happened at all.

[tenalto2.livejournal.com]

That entire thing is gold, but
At which point, he would just lose it for a second or two and say, "OF COURSE! I CHOSE! THE UNIVERSE! And then while Martha is still processing chose, with this look of dawning horror on her face, he'd get himself under control again and do his best to pretend the previous moment never happened at all.
literally made me flail with feels because THAT IS JUST WHAT WOULD HAPPEN. I, I, don't even. That's perfect. Please write this thing!

[lyricwrites.livejournal.com]

I . . . am not sure if I can, actually, because I'm not sure what to do with all the plot elements that lead into it. But I'll give it a think-through and see what pops up. (Which may be an entirely different story, but you're right; that particular moment is very Eleven, and I should write it at some point.)

[annapurna-2.livejournal.com]

I don't follow the Dr. Who fandom (even though I love the show), so I wasn't aware a lot of people didn't like this. I heart it, even with Donna's totally heartbreaking end. She's still my fave companion. Donna Noble rocks!

And Wilf!!!! I heart him to infinity and beyond. Heh.

[elisi]

Davros: LOOK WHAT YOU'VE MADE HER INTO, DOCTOR! THE MAN OF PEACE, WHO MAKES A WEAPON OUT OF EVERYONE HE TOUCHES—
Eleven: And you're staring right down the barrel of all of them. Care to re-evaluate your position?
Mmmmm. It was late, I was very tired. Your version is definitely better & more likely. Although I'm also rather partial to:

Davros: LOOK WHAT YOU'VE MADE HER INTO, DOCTOR! THE MAN OF PEACE, WHO MAKES A WEAPON OUT OF EVERYONE HE TOUCHES—
River: Yeah. He thinks it's hot.
Davros: ...
Eleven (blushes): Well... Yes. And she has this thing for handcuffs which... (catches himself) Which means you should back down.

At which point, he would just lose it for a second or two and say, "OF COURSE! I CHOSE! THE UNIVERSE! And then while Martha is still processing chose, with this look of dawning horror on her face, he'd get himself under control again and do his best to pretend the previous moment never happened at all.
WHICH IS WHY YOU SHOULD WRITE THIS OMG!

[elisi]

Sounds v. interesting! Yes, I'd love a look. elisi at livejournal dot com

Thank you! :)

[elisi]

*grins* Magic?

By the way, what are your feeling on the S3 finale & Tinkerbell!Jesus? For comparisons sake...

[elisi]

It's that last bit where it fails for me - I find that it completely lost its sense of fun. Everything became over the top grim and tried for deep but forgot that, heh, no substance to this thing, so it just looked silly and miserable instead, which is a v unsatisfying combo.
The Donna bit? Yeah, I understand that. My kids are still upset about her fate, and that's not good... (They also think it's very sad that Amy lost her baby and couldn't bring her up, but they accept that this is how the story goes, and of course it's all there to demonstrate something vital about the Doctor etc. But Donna is just SAD and upsetting.)

And I did quite hate the Doctor looking a right twit, letting Davros dominate that conversation, possibly he could've tried arguing instead of Moar Emo Face
They're all being AWESOME and he's just moping. But it's all part of the Ten Is The Most Important Person In The Universe, and Everything Only Matters In Relation To Him Syndrome which RTD Who is afflicted by.

I would've loved to have Six there. HE WOULD HAVE TOLD HIM WHAT FOR. Or One. Damn, that'd've been good.
And Seven... (I have a soft spot for Seven, And now I want to rewatch Remembrance of the Daleks, because he is NOT emo AT ALL, just a total BAMF. *wibbles*)

Where you see flat, I see LOLARIOUS. THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN A GREAT MOMENT.
Well that's what I meant. Flat for Davros, because of whole thing collapsing & having misjudged it. *g*

[(Anonymous)]

Okay, I'll send it. Do you have Microsoft Word?

~ srmcd1

[elisi]

As long as it's not a .docx document I'll be fine. :)

PS. I'm running out the door, so I will get back to you later.

[promethia_tenk]

That's about the best explanation I've got. But, really, if you don't feel in your soul that TSE/JE is horrible television, I'm not sure what I can do to explain it to you. *snugs*

By the way, what are your feeling on the S3 finale & Tinkerbell!Jesus? For comparisons sake...
I think it's become my favorite of the four season finales? That's not an endorsement! But I can see how people *can* like that one. I've got a truckload of issues with it, but those are mostly philosophical. It's probably the pinacle of my disagreement with Rusty about his handling of the Doctor (because from that point on he's truly falling apart and at least you're seeing consequences, where this still feels basically celebratory).

As a piece of television, though, I think they're faaaaaaar better done than TSE/JE. They're much more focused; they have real weight to them. And I'll admit that the batshit spectacle and magical thinking irked me when I was first watching, but I've come to love those when Moff does them, so I suppose my beef wasn't really with the insanity, just what it was being used for.

Annnnd my feelings about Tinkerbell!Jesus Doctor are pretty much just my feelings about the whole finale condensed into two minutes.

[promethia_tenk]

Well, I guess you can then : ) Ummm . . . thank you?

Or I could always throw ideas at wall, see what sticks and apply tea to any bits that don't fit. And to my audience. Tea fixes everything.
*enables*

[promethia_tenk]

At which point, he would just lose it for a second or two and say, "OF COURSE! I CHOSE! THE UNIVERSE! And then while Martha is still processing chose, with this look of dawning horror on her face, he'd get himself under control again and do his best to pretend the previous moment never happened at all.

*strangled noises* Perfection.

[masakochan.livejournal.com]

for fear that I Fail.

My inner optimist is going "Well, you probably couldn't have as much utter FAIL than in the Shakespeare episode where Martha tried to bring up people's views of her in that century, and Ten's just like, "Martha, how'd'ya think people see me? I'm am alien."

....who looks like average white guy. >_>