elisi | Chibnall and the metal bikini

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chibnall,
torchwood

Chibnall and the metal bikini

So, when trying to think back on the new showrunner's previous work, one episode did of course stand out...

Now a cyber woman fighting a pterodactyl is probably the single most iconic moment of Torchwood, and as someone who likes my crack deep fried I rather adore it.

However, there is the question of the metal bikini, and at whose feet we shall lay that whole fiasco? Before decrying Chibnall as an evil sexist (have we been on this band wagon before? Why yes we have! If you are in charge of Doctor Who, it is self-evident that you hate women/all minority groups/anyone else you can think of) I thought I'd try to find out if the outfit was his idea, or if - like the case with Amy's skirt - it was something completely out of his hands. (Amy's short skirts were Karen Gillan's idea, and had nothing to do with Moffat.)

For anyone not familiar with the episode is centers around the fact that one of the characters, Ianto, has hidden his girlfriend, Lisa, in the Torchwood basement. The twist being that she's a part-converted cyberman [see the S2 finale of Doctor Who]. Why this is problematic should be evident from these images:

cyberbikini

I couldn't find a good quality image of her feet, but those are cute little Cuban heels she's wearing, a million miles from the big stompy footwear cybermen are usually seen wearing.

As I don't have access to the shooting scripts, I instead watched the Declassified episode for 'Cyberwoman' (it's from 2007). I transcribed the relevant parts:

Here is RTD talking about Lisa's outfit:

"There is a very long history of sexy pneumatic hydraulic women, strangely, in Science Fiction, and we actually wanted to tap into that, and to give a Cyberman version of that, which is just irresistible."

[Cue scene of Japanese science guy perving over Lisa, while Ianto looks disgusted]

RTD cont: "Great, iconic imagery of that woman, trapped, in half a cyberman suit. Brilliant."

[Then there's some talk by the costume/props people about how she's half converted, and trying to figure out what's underneath the cybermen's shiny exterior. And the actress was quite taken with her outfit.]

Director James Strong: "It was so important for this episode that the Cyber Girl looked a) amazing, but also looked threatening and looked scary and looked formidable, but still looked sexy and looked great."

RTD: "There are a lot of men on the team who were absolutely determined to make that Cyber Woman costume as sexy as possible. I've got no idea what they mean. I'm the one sitting there going 'Couldn't she do with a nice little bikini bottom in case she gets too cold in this environment? Apparently it's very very sexy..."

[Then a section where the cast talk about how scary she is - to their credit not one of them mentions the word 'sexy' just that she was intimidating.]

Director: "I think Cyber Girl be the most iconic monster and villain in the entire series...

[montage of Cyber Woman & pterodactyl]

RTD: "The idea of having a pterodactyl fight a cyber woman made us laugh for about three weeks. Solidly."

So... Unless the shooting script has 'SEXY' underlined and highlighted, I don't think we can lay the metal bikini at Chibnall's door - it seems to have been a team effort, quite literally. And RTD very clearly found the whole thing hilarious.

To be honest it's quite weird watching it. Like - can't you hear yourselves? But it's very clear that they wanted A Sexy Cyborg, and A Sexy Cyborg is what we got. Whether we should haul up every man involved, or quite simply blame the sexism that permeates society (and that this episode is a perfect example and symptom of), I can't say.

Let's all just hope that at some point, someone took Chibnall aside and said: 'That metal bikini? Was truly terrible, never do it again.'

Although to be fair, Torchwood was at that point still at the jumping up and down going: 'Look! Look! I'm all adult and violent and grim and full of sexual content!!!' stage. And I guess nothing symbolises that more than the sexy cyborg...

Because, if I'm honest, I'm not really outraged*, I'm just nostalgic. It was stupid, but ridiculously so, in that very special Torchwood way: It was also the episode where Jack - quite literally - snogged Ianto back to life.

And I'd rather have had hundred more offensive cyber women, than Miracle Day. :(

They killed my show, and I'm still sad. So I guess that's my final thought:

Dear Chibnall, please make Doctor Who full of weird and wonderful crack, but without objectifying women. And I'm pretty sure you're on that already. Thank you.

ETA: PLEASE BE CIVIL. I realise this is a hornet's nest, but I have no axe to grind. I generally like everyone & everything. (Except Miracle Day.) /fandom's Pollyanna

*They all wanted her to be sexy, and not one of them seems to have spoken up against it. It's just quietly depressing, much like when you read about studies showing just how much women are discriminated against, still, in every way.

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Or maybe Torchwood-esque?. I don't know how to spell?.:(
Torchwood-esque is fine! But not as funny. ;)

Esther/Rex was like a rehash of Tosh/Owen except Rex was WAY MORE annoying.
I think I liked Esther. I can't really remember.

Not so nice when its on the other foot, isn't it DEAN!.:)
Poor baby, that was NOTHING.

The "esque at the end probably sounds more like a weird clothing store?.

Esther had the potential. Too bad about what happened to her. Rex was suppose to die but didn't.

"Poor baby, that was NOTHING"

Yeah!. He didn't have to dance around a pole, in a scantily clad outfit for strange men while they gave him banknotes!.

Crowley to Dean and Sam: You two are lucky you have your looks.

Although there is fan service on the show. The lead actors were always going topless. It did nothing for me because I'm not attracted to them. I'm sure their nice Texas guys in real life all the same.

I guess Men are sexy when they are dressed up, while women are sexy when they are NOT dressed.

Rex was suppose to die but didn't
It was the most STUPID THING I HAVE EVER HAD THE MISFORTUNE TO WATCH. IT STILL MAKES ME ANGRY!

Yeah!. He didn't have to dance around a pole, in a scantily clad outfit for strange men while they gave him banknotes!.
Although I'm sure the viewers would like that...

Although there is fan service on the show. The lead actors were always going topless
Yeah, things change. Like James Bond being the one to emerge from the sea in tiny swim wear. :)

I guess Men are sexy when they are dressed up, while women are sexy when they are NOT dressed.
Hmmmmm. Everyone looks good in a suit though.

The whole scene with Rex not dying was so graphic. I hated it. We saw nothing that prove he was more than obnoxious.

I find the thought of male strippers funny. It was to balance out the fact that women were being objectified that way. The solution?. Let's make men do it too!. It's there decision I suppose.

Now I'm going to sound superficial by saying that no other actor who portrayed James Bond before Daniel Craig could have pulled that scene off. I do like that this version of Mr Bond is less of a womanizer than before. He actually fell in love instead of just shagging a bond girl.

The clothes make the man. Or woman. It's about a certain image. On TV and in movies, you know their suppose to be hot when their walking in slow motion sequence. With the wind blowing in their hair.

We saw nothing that prove he was more than obnoxious.
LOL. I don't remember anything about him, to be honest.

I find the thought of male strippers funny. It was to balance out the fact that women were being objectified that way. The solution?. Let's make men do it too!. It's there decision I suppose.
It's certainly better than nothing. ;)

Now I'm going to sound superficial by saying that no other actor who portrayed James Bond before Daniel Craig could have pulled that scene off.
I don't think Connery would have had any problems. Ahem. /obligatory half-naked Spike icon. Buffy had a tendency to have handsome leads undress.

I do like that this version of Mr Bond is less of a womanizer than before. He actually fell in love instead of just shagging a bond girl.
It's very much a reboot, showing how he 'becomes' a drinking womaniser, which I like. More serious. (I adore Skyfall to tiny pieces. SUCH a gorgeous film. Has a lot in common w/Dr Who in terms of where it's at in culture & dealing with Britain today.)

On TV and in movies, you know their suppose to be hot when their walking in slow motion sequence. With the wind blowing in their hair.
*snerk* Yes, rather. :)

I wish I had the privilege of forgetting what Rex was like.

Sex means nothing to asexual people. Blind people don't need to know about it because they will know by instinct. I just think its overused sometimes.

I think its sexy when men put clothes on or they have a certain skill set.

I think the image of James Bond needed to get with the times. Doctor Who also went through a similar process even though its suppose to be following on from the old series.

Catherine Tate did say the female champion role is like being a Bond girl. I did like that skit she did with Daniel Craig.

Mr Connery was quite dashing as James Bond back in the day. But I saw an image of him with a long pony tail while wearing a mankini and now I can not unsee it.

I liked Timothy Dalton as James, even though he didn't play the role that long.

I wish I had the privilege of forgetting what Rex was like.
I have buried great swathes of Miracle Day so deep in my memory that I doubt any of it will ever resurface.

Sex means nothing to asexual people. Blind people don't need to know about it because they will know by instinct. I just think its overused sometimes.
You seen this?

I think its sexy when men put clothes on or they have a certain skill set.
A good suit + competence and I'm there... (Or some other outfit that just works.)

I think the image of James Bond needed to get with the times. Doctor Who also went through a similar process even though its suppose to be following on from the old series.
Totally. Re-boots all round! Ditto Sherlock. :)

Catherine Tate did say the female champion role is like being a Bond girl.
Without the sex. ;)

But I saw an image of him with a long pony tail while wearing a mankini and now I can not unsee it.
*tries to scrub brain*

I liked Timothy Dalton as James, even though he didn't play the role that long.
Which means I HAVE to get Buffy verse gifs:

(Not sure why the second gif isn't moving. But at least the text is there.)

No I haven't. I don't follow twitter.

You know what else is sexy?. Hygiene. I try to set the bar low. Also guys who don't have dangerous psychological problems.

James Bond doesn't acknowledge that his face changes. Whereas the Doctor has a reason for it.

There is "sexual tension" between the Doctor and the female champion. Maybe with Donna it was just tension?.

Although a few wanted to have sex with the Doctor.

Thanks for the James Bond debate from Buffy. It cheered me up.:)

No I haven't. I don't follow twitter.
I don't either, I saw it... somewhere else. (Twitter makes no sense to me.)

You know what else is sexy?. Hygiene. I try to set the bar low. Also guys who don't have dangerous psychological problems.
Hygiene *is* setting the bar low - but at least easy to spot. The other one is more difficult... (I was unfeasibly lucky to meet Darcy when I was young.)

James Bond doesn't acknowledge that his face changes. Whereas the Doctor has a reason for it.
Neither does Sherlock Holmes. It depends on the context.

There is "sexual tension" between the Doctor and the female champion. Maybe with Donna it was just tension?.
LOL. Well, depends on the companion. And the Doctor.

Thanks for the James Bond debate from Buffy. It cheered me up.:)
My pleasure. There's more to it, but those were the only gifs I could find.

"Hygiene *is* setting the bar low..."

I forgot to state my sarcasm?. Although I wouldn't be surprise if there are people who don't think its an issue. It depends on a persons state of mind.

"The other one is more difficult..."

Oh yes. My mum knows all too well about that. The family hid it from her before she eventually realized it.

The format is like in a SOAP opera where a different actor takes over the same role. I'd be freaked out if that could happen in real life. My mum returns home and looks like a different person...

I'm not sure how Verity Lambert would of thought about Doctor Who being compared to the Ian Fleming books.

Donna: We're like spies!.

Ten: We are spies.

There was only tension when Ten couldn't just say no to Donna. Otherwise he was the most at ease with her.

David Tennant and Catherine Tate went off to do another project together where they could have sexual tension between the characters they were portraying instead.

Your gifs make me want to do a rewatch of Buffy. I wonder what Warren and Andrew would of said about Daniel Craig?.

Edited 2016-02-17 10:38 (UTC)

I forgot to state my sarcasm?.
I did wonder. ;) Although it's a fair point.

Oh yes. My mum knows all too well about that. The family hid it from her before she eventually realized it.
:( Sounds awful.

My mum returns home and looks like a different person...
LOL

I'm not sure how Verity Lambert would of thought about Doctor Who being compared to the Ian Fleming books.
I think 'British Institution' is not a bad thing, so she'd probably be pleased.

Ten: We are spies.
That's brilliant.

And yes, I wish I'd been able to see their Much Ado. Ah well.

Your gifs make me want to do a rewatch of Buffy. I wonder what Warren and Andrew would of said about Daniel Craig?.
Hmmm. I think they'd probably have liked him, and the whole ;back to basics' thing.

I wished that RTD had left some of the deleted scenes in. The one I quoted was less than thirty seconds.

I'm far away too so I only saw snippets of Much Ado on Youtube.

I could imagine Andrew day dreaming about Daniel Craig coming out of the water and how this version of James Bond has real feelings.:)

I wished that RTD had left some of the deleted scenes in. The one I quoted was less than thirty seconds.
I didn't realise that was a deleted scene! Oh, that makes me sad.

I'm far away too so I only saw snippets of Much Ado on Youtube.
Yeah, I had no chance of seeing it either, sadly. (Closer, yes, but no money.)

I could imagine Andrew day dreaming about Daniel Craig coming out of the water and how this version of James Bond has real feelings.:)
!!!!!! That could be a fic...

RTD explains in the DVD commentary why he left them out but I'm still disappointed. The Planet of the Ood scenes were funny.

Ten: I bet that's Ferrari boy.

Donna: I bet his worth a bit.

Ten: Are you traveling the whole universe to find a husband?

Donna: Got a problem with that skinny? (smirks)

Funny, yes, but overall I'm happy he left that particular conversation out. People were angry enough with him already.

It was basically Ten being annoyed at the baddie for other reasons. The Doctors face when Donna "flirted".:)

RTD did wish he had left the "spies" scene in though.

The Doctor does good faces. :)

However, I'm sure you can imagine how fandom would have taken the 'only travelling to find a husband' line. Fandom can be very humourless...

And yeah, the spies bit would have been brilliant!

I guess so. By the look on Donnas face, I'd thought she was only teasing the Doctor.

David and Catherine's body language and facial expressions are so nsync.:)

However, there are two things that seemed odd to me:

(1) Donna is self-conscious when she is referred to as "Miss". Like being single is bad.

(2) Donna is more impressed by a "proper" rocket compared to the TARDIS. The latter travels in time and space!

Although some thought Donna getting excited over being on an alien planet for the first time was wierd?

The Doctor had a delayed reaction to Donnas comment hence the "ferrari boy" remark he muttered and probably why he tries to teach Donna to fly the TARDIS in the next episode.

I guess so. By the look on Donnas face, I'd thought she was only teasing the Doctor.
Oh I'm sure! But I'm sure you know what fandom is like...

(1) Donna is self-conscious when she is referred to as "Miss". Like being single is bad.
Donna has a lot of issues, which I like - she's so loud, partly to cover up her insecurities.

(2) Donna is more impressed by a "proper" rocket compared to the TARDIS. The latter travels in time and space!
But the other one looks cooler! (Although yes, I'm sure that's why he began teaching her.)

Although some thought Donna getting excited over being on an alien planet for the first time was wierd?
People are weird.

Ten did looked freaked out when Donna wanted to go home after seeing what was happening with the Ood. Luckily she changed her mind.

Donna being self-conscious about being single probably comes from not having the best luck with men. In my case, I get annoyed when people ask me all sorts of inappropriate questions when they find out I'm single.

The TARDIS being just a "box" comment reminds me of when women are not impress by a guys car because it's not "fancy" enough.

My brother told me a girl said "not impressed" when he had to give her a lift in his first car which was a Nissan Pulsar. I told my brother that he should have told her to walk. I get defensive about these things.

To be fair, some people though Rose got too excited at the beginning of New Earth, while others though Amy didn't get excited enough. It depends on which episode that is being referenced.

Donna being self-conscious about being single probably comes from not having the best luck with men. In my case, I get annoyed when people ask me all sorts of inappropriate questions when they find out I'm single.
*nods* And everyone thought Darcy & I were SO YOUNG when we got married (which we were - I was 20, he was 19), so it's hard to do anything right... (I love that Amy & Rory got married young. It's so very rare to see that.)

My brother told me a girl said "not impressed" when he had to give her a lift in his first car which was a Nissan Pulsar. I told my brother that he should have told her to walk. I get defensive about these things.
I get annoyed when car adverts imply that all women care about is a guy's car. Sad that such women actually exist. :(

To be fair, some people though Rose got too excited at the beginning of New Earth, while others though Amy didn't get excited enough. It depends on which episode that is being referenced.
Oh yeah, can't do it right no matter what.

It use to be considered normal to marry young but society has changed and sometimes your viewed as deprieving yourself of experiencing the leisures of life or whatever its called.

Then on the other hand if you haven't settled down by the time you are in your thirties, you are concidered unconventional.

I don't have the lifestyle to find a partner right now but my brother is looking into match making me, which I'm a bit apprehensive about.

Car adverts don't seemed to make any sense these days. One ad had a woman tell a guy to stay in the car because in her imagination he was "hot" inside it!.

I prefer fun ads like cars that turn into a robot and starts dancing.:D

Ads that have superficial women in them are insulting to the female population.
I don't understand how thats a good way to promote a product.

I hope I make sense. I delayed my reply for this post because my cat passed away. My mind is all over the place so to speak.

Then on the other hand if you haven't settled down by the time you are in your thirties, you are concidered unconventional.
Yes - conventions have changed, but you're still expected to conform...

I don't have the lifestyle to find a partner right now but my brother is looking into match making me, which I'm a bit apprehensive about.
I hear ya. Maybe humour him for a couple of dates, and then put your foot down?

I prefer fun ads like cars that turn into a robot and starts dancing.:D
I think my favourite one is this one. :)

Ads that have superficial women in them are insulting to the female population.
They try to appeal to men. And having watched 2/3 of Wolf on Wall Street, it's obvious that that sort of thing still sells. (Film not recommended.)

I hope I make sense. I delayed my reply for this post because my cat passed away. My mind is all over the place so to speak.
(((hugs)))) That's awful. Sending you all my sympathy.

Conformity. I remember learning that topic for English class in high school.

I usually stick to a transcript and ignore the judgmental look on people's faces.

To be fair, I do want to get married. I find it hard to trust people especially after my brother got a divorce. My former sister in law was a big fat liar.

I read your other post. You don't have to convince me. I saw the movie poster. Seriously?. In this day and age.

Sexist ads are just alienating the rest of society.

I had to do reserch on Flake ads over the decades for a Retail Assessment. They are targeted to women and yet so suggestive to men.

In Australia a juice ad was pulled off air because it objectified a man. Yet women are still used as sexual objects to sell products.

Thanks for your sympathy.

To be fair, I do want to get married. I find it hard to trust people especially after my brother got a divorce. My former sister in law was a big fat liar.
Sorry to hear that, and hope you meet someone nice some day.

I read your other post. You don't have to convince me. I saw the movie poster. Seriously?. In this day and age.
Thankfully it's gone now, but it made me angry every single day.

I had to do reserch on Flake ads over the decades for a Retail Assessment. They are targeted to women and yet so suggestive to men.
*nods* I know exactly what you mean.

In Australia a juice ad was pulled off air because it objectified a man. Yet women are still used as sexual objects to sell products.
Men being 'the stronger sex' is a joke. I'd like to see them cope with what women put up with on a daily basis.

Thanks for your sympathy.
I've always had cats, I know how hard it is to lose them. (((hugs)))

Chibnall and the metal bikini

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