elisi | The very slow Buffy re-watch

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The very slow Buffy re-watch

Finally got to Revelations & Lover's Walk.

Revelations
Suffice to say, the girls are not taken with Buffy/Angel, or Buffy's twee outfits. They like Faith, but Faith hasn't really *done* much yet. They were all eagerly hoping for Gwendoline Post to die and cheered when they found out she was actually evil. They HATE the Willow/Xander subplot.

What struck ME on this re-watch, is how very VERY hostile Buffy's friends are. There is this thing in fandom where people think that Angel just gets let off the hook for everything, whereas Spike gets blamed for stuff, even after the soul, but I think that is very much a fandom perception, or viewpoint. The CHARACTERS very much blame Angel, and don't seem to make much of a distinction:

Buffy: (looks up at Willow) It's not what you think.
Xander: Hope not. Because I think you're harboring a vicious killer.
[...]
Giles: (interrupts) Be quiet. (slowly turns to face her) (sternly) I won't remind you that the fate of the world often lies with the Slayer. What would be the point? Nor shall I remind you that you've jeopardized the lives of all that you hold dear by harboring a known murderer. But sadly, I must remind you that Angel tortured me... for hours... for pleasure. You should have told me he was alive. You didn't. You have no respect for me, or the job I perform.

And then Xander recruits Faith to kill Angel... (And never apologises for any of it. Xander being a dick is hitting me a lot harder this time round.)

To be honest, Spike probably has an easier ride in S7 (OK, insane and living in the high school basement and it takes a few weeks before Buffy decides to properly look after him), but everyone is a lot older and a lot more aware of their own failings. Also they know Spike a lot better than they ever knew Angel, and he hasn't killed any of them.

Lover's Walk
Since Revelations didn't do much for them, I had to just TELL them that this one would be worthwhile... And so it proved to be. They loved drunk, love-lorn Spike (Darcy declared Spike the only redeeming feature of the show, which... I'll take it.), loved all the comedy and loved his speech best of all probably. (Love's bitch wins again!)

Also, my other half is rather savage. Prime example:

Buffy (to Angel): What I want from you I can never have.
Darcy (drolly): Just get a cardboard cut-out, you won't notice any difference.

Almost best of all, then Cordelia's fall had them completely fooled and they were VERY upset at the show killing off such an awesome character... And then the camera pans from the funeral to Willow & Buffy talking about how Cordy is going to be OK, and they were v impressed. :D

I think that's all as my brain is rather frazzled. But this show is very very good and I love it. <3

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Also they know Spike a lot better than they ever knew Angel, and he hasn't killed any of them.

Yes, I think that the way Buffy treated Angel and everyone else dealt with him (after Angelus' betrayals) was quite different. And I agree, Angel does not make himself easily known by anyone (including Buffy). I suspect this is at least partly behind Darcy's comment, since if a character insists on being mysterious after a while they are simply undeveloped and boring. The other part is that Boreanaz has never been a strong actor and didn't even really become any good until he was on his own series.

By comparison while one may or may not like Spike he is hardly short of personality or opinions. And yes, he was both on the show longer and working with the Scoobies more extensively. For example between S1 and S2 Buffy is absent but one assumes Angel has had no contact with them either -- which is rather different from S5 to S6 in particular.

if a character insists on being mysterious after a while they are simply undeveloped and boring. The other part is that Boreanaz has never been a strong actor and didn't even really become any good until he was on his own series.
Plus it's a thankless task to be 'the love interest'. (Also see Riley - at least Angel could brood and be angsty, Riley got nothin'.)

By comparison while one may or may not like Spike he is hardly short of personality or opinions. And yes, he was both on the show longer and working with the Scoobies more extensively. For example between S1 and S2 Buffy is absent but one assumes Angel has had no contact with them either -- which is rather different from S5 to S6 in particular.
Spike will show up and ask for help from them, just because. He lives with Xander, looks after Dawn - he's embedded in a way Angel never is.

Almost best of all, then Cordelia's fall had them completely fooled and they were VERY upset at the show killing off such an awesome character... And then the camera pans from the funeral to Willow & Buffy talking about how Cordy is going to be OK, and they were v impressed. :D

Yessss. I love how that scene always tricks the newbies.

Darcy (drolly): Just get a cardboard cut-out, you won't notice any difference.

Maybe I should finish that fic of Buffy and Faith roleplaying the torture scene from "Enemies" in front of a cardboard Angel.

Yessssssssssssss.

Took a while, but...

Ooooh.

Yessss. I love how that scene always tricks the newbies.
It's SO well done. :D

Maybe I should finish that fic of Buffy and Faith roleplaying the torture scene from "Enemies" in front of a cardboard Angel.
! Now that sounds like an excellent idea.

Rewatch with the fam is so rewarding. We've suddenly got a 13-year-old living with us, and we're bonding like whoa over the nightly Buffy rewatch. We're up to "The Body". Fingers crossed. She's having all the right reactions, which is very satisfying. Although she does seem to give Xander way more of a pass than I do...but it's fun talking about the few places about which we have minor disagreements. I was very afraid that she was going to be Team Angel, but now that he's off on his own show she doesn't seem to miss him much. Whew! (I think Darcy has a point.)

Rewatch with the fam is so rewarding. We've suddenly got a 13-year-old living with us, and we're bonding like whoa over the nightly Buffy rewatch.
That's an excellent way of bonding!

We're up to "The Body". Fingers crossed.
Good luck with that... It's a hard one.

She's having all the right reactions, which is very satisfying.
Hurrah. (And yes, very satisfying!)

Although she does seem to give Xander way more of a pass than I do...but it's fun talking about the few places about which we have minor disagreements.
Yes, it can spark good debate, and there is a sense in which Xander is just very unfiltered.

I was very afraid that she was going to be Team Angel, but now that he's off on his own show she doesn't seem to miss him much. Whew! (I think Darcy has a point.)
Well, it's very understandable why Buffy falls for him, but... (I love that AtS makes fun of Angel.)

Fred: "So - now that she's alive again, are they gonna get back together? Angel and that girl with the goofy name?"

Wes: "Well - *Fred* - that's a difficult question. I think it's fair to say - no. Not a chance, never, no way, not in a million years, and also 'nuh-uh.'"

Fred: "But you said he loved her. And of course she's gonna love him back, because he's so strong and handsome and he really listens when you talk. I-I mean, if you go for that sort of thing, why wouldn't it work?"

Cordy: "Let me break it down for you, Fred."

Cordy steps away from the reception counter and pretends to be Buffy.

Cordy: "Oh - Angel! I know that I'm a Slayer and you a vampire - and it would be *impossible* for us to *be* together - *but!*"

Gunn laughs at Cordy's act.

Wes stands up: "But!"

Cordy turns to look at him. Wes pulls his glasses off and lays them to the side.

Wes: "My gypsy curse sometimes prevent me from seeing the truth. Oh, Buffy!"

Cordy: "Yes, Angel?"

Wes: "Oh, I love you so much I almost forgot to *brood!*"

Fred watches wide-eyed. Gunn is laughing.

Cordy: "And just because I sent you to hell that one time doesn't mean that we can't just be friends."

Wes grabs a hold of Cordy's wrist.

Cordy: "Oh!"

Wes: "Or possibly more."

Cordy gasps: "Gasp! No! We mustn't."

Wes pulls Cordy close.

Wes: "Kiss me."

Cordy: "Bite me!"

Wes bends Cordy back over his arm and pretends to sink his fangs into her neck.

Angel off screen: "How about you both bite me."

I noticed the hostility from the Scoobies in my rewatch too, it really bothered me. But Buffy didn't share a lot with them and there was all the baggage of her ditching and leaving them to protect Sunnydale...S3 is rough.

I always tend to think of S3 as a lot of good standalones (Bandy Candy, Lover's Walk, The Wish and so on), plus the Mayor (A+ villain) and of course Faith... And then suppress the memory of twee Buffy and the whole Angel-hanging-round-for-a-season-just-waiting-for-his-own-show-to-start.

YES, that is a good summary of the season lol.

*is pleased*

What struck ME on this re-watch, is how very VERY hostile Buffy's friends are.

The more often I rewatch the show, the more convinced I am of the fact that Buffy has terrible friends. They always blame her for pretty much everything, as if she had chosen to be a Slayer.

No wonder she ends up spending so much time with Spike, he doesn't judge...

It must be so interesting watching with people who haven't seen it before. I agree that the other Scoobies were always really hard on Angel and no-one really made the distinction that he was soul-less and not really responsible for his actions. Also he was soooo much worse than Spike without a soul.

It must be so interesting watching with people who haven't seen it before.
They know a few spoilers (thanks to Tumbr), but not the context, so I am enjoying their reactions very much!

I agree that the other Scoobies were always really hard on Angel and no-one really made the distinction that he was soul-less and not really responsible for his actions.
And seem way too ready to think he'd 'relapse' any second.

Also he was soooo much worse than Spike without a soul.
Oh yes. Worst vampire on record for many reason!

People think that Angel just gets let off the hook for everything, whereas Spike gets blamed for stuff, even after the soul, but I think that is very much a fandom perception, or viewpoint. The CHARACTERS very much blame Angel, and don't seem to make much of a distinction:

I was about to say, I don't remember Angel getting a pass from any of the Scooby Gang! In fact I remember the rest of the gang being very hostile towards him and quite resentful towards Buffy, so I'm glad my memory wasn't playing tricks!

so I'm glad my memory wasn't playing tricks!
No, you're quite right! But there is (or at least was) a chunk of fandom which made great distinctions between Angel & Angelus, but never extended the same courtesy towards Spike. So I sort of had that in the back of my head, and found this episode far harsher than I remembered...

Suffice to say, the girls are not taken with Buffy/Angel, or Buffy's twee outfits.

Heh I can understand that, I definitely thought they went a bit over the top with Buffy’s outfits in order to contrast her with Faith. It seemed like she did a total switch from dressing a little sexier with the daring miniskirts in the earlier seasons, and then suddenly she was all about cardigans and matching handbags, even at the time it felt like she was not really dressing how your average teen was. But then Cordelia often dressed a little older as well I suppose

And agreed on Angel. I mean it was understandable that they were wary at first over whether Angel’s soul had been genuinely restored or not, but certainly none of them ever really bonded with him other than Buffy, most of Angel’s appearances in season 3 consisted of him being off in a separate subplot with Buffy whenever he did show up. Even in season 4, his brief appearance in Pangs sees him annoyed at everyone assuming that he’s evil again, and his appearance in The Yoko Factor is Riley wanting to fight him because of Xander’s warnings about how he can turn evil after sex with Buffy...And then by the time of seasons 5 and 7 he’s only coming back to appear in scenes with Buffy alone

Heh I can understand that, I definitely thought they went a bit over the top with Buffy’s outfits in order to contrast her with Faith.
Yes, I've told them S3 is the worst, her fashion sense returns when she gets older. ;)

And agreed on Angel. I mean it was understandable that they were wary at first over whether Angel’s soul had been genuinely restored or not, but certainly none of them ever really bonded with him other than Buffy, most of Angel’s appearances in season 3 consisted of him being off in a separate subplot with Buffy whenever he did show up.
He's there to be the love interest/damsel, and doesn't have Spike's social skills/gift of annoying others to recommend him. ;) Also he of course terrorised all of them in S2, which is a little hard to come back from.

There is this thing in fandom where people think that Angel just gets let off the hook for everything, whereas Spike gets blamed for stuff, even after the soul, but I think that is very much a fandom perception, or viewpoint.

I think fans get confused because the narrative sometimes treats Angel as distinctly different from Angelus - but even that is very inconsistent, and Angel is at his best as a character when the line between Angel and Angelus is at its blurriest. Actually, I don't know if the Angel/Angelus naming divide even existed yet in Revelations.

Actually, I don't know if the Angel/Angelus naming divide even existed yet in Revelations.
It doesn't! The Gorch brothers (who turn up in S2) refer to him as 'Angelus', but that's simply because they haven't seen him in 100+ years. Everyone else, throughout, calls him 'Angel'. The name distinction doesn't become a thing until he's on his own show...

I once took a quiz where you were supposed to guess if a quote came from Angel or Edward Cullen. One quote was from soulless Angel in Buffy season 2 - I selected "Angel" without look at the other options. Turned out I was supposed to check "Angelus" and, per the quiz creator, I'd gotten the wrong option. I was so irritated I stopped taking the quiz - but that is very telling in how much fandom as so internalized the Angel/Angelus divide that they've forgotten it was a retcon.

I was so irritated I stopped taking the quiz - but that is very telling in how much fandom as so internalized the Angel/Angelus divide that they've forgotten it was a retcon.
Damn. And yes, fanon just... overwhelms canon.

Xander really is a dick most of the time. Don't know why he's supposed to be "The Heart" of the group. He's mindbogglingly selfish most of the time.

Although, I like him for the most part in S7...

Xander really is a dick most of the time. Don't know why he's supposed to be "The Heart" of the group. He's mindbogglingly selfish most of the time.
It's quite astonishing. I can understand why some fans loathe him.

Although, I like him for the most part in S7...
Yes, he grows up. Which is one of the really good things about such a longrunning show. The characters get to grow and evolve.

And then there's the fact that he's supposed to be based on Joss Whedon when HE was a teenager, which is just FULL of unfortunate implications...

Uh-huh. It's not a very flattering image, but then what with the revelations of the past few years... Not surprising. :(

We learn something new with every re-watch...even some unpleasant truths we may not have seen properly before.

*HUGS*

It's more remembering stuff that had faded into a pleasant haze... And going 'damn, that really sucks!'

But then, it's only TV. Hope you are OK. ♥

Yeahhh, those wince-y moments that your brain kinda waved off. Och.

I'm hanging in by my nails. Annoying, but I've had practice. I just tell myself it will all shake out in the end and I feel better after... *smiles*

Yeahhh, those wince-y moments that your brain kinda waved off. Och.
It's interesting watching with the young 'uns, cause they don't like the 'embarrassing' moments (for the characters), whereas my issues are quite different.

I'm hanging in by my nails. Annoying, but I've had practice. I just tell myself it will all shake out in the end and I feel better after... *smiles*
I hope you catch a break soon. Like, a proper one.

Thank you, my dear lady. I'm sure it will happen. Things are better than they were 2 years ago - but it could stand more improvement still. Just keep your fingers crossed for us over here. :D

Will do, definitely!!

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The very slow Buffy re-watch

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