(no subject)

[elisi]

I'm feeling generally pissed off, but shall spare you the (mostly RL-related) details. Instead I bring you a couple of quotes from our own Mr Whedon, from way back when. Please can we have that Joss back?

But nowadays I’m really cranky about comics. . . . Because most of them are just really, really poorly written soft-core. And I miss good old storytelling. And you know what else I miss ? Super powers. Why is it now that everybody’s like ‘I can reverse the polarity of your ions !’ Like in one big flash everybody’s Doctor Strange. I like the guys that can stick to walls and change into sand and stuff. I don’t understand anything anymore. And all the girls are wearing nothing, and they all look like they have implants. Well, I sound like a very old man, and a cranky one, but it’s true.” (Dark Horse interview)

What we don’t have, which is what some science fiction shows have, is we can’t just do a thing because it seems cool. Everything that we pitch, everything that we put out there, whether or not it works, is based on the idea of: The audience has been through this. A normal girl goes through this. A normal guy deals with this. You know, it’s issues of sexuality, popularity, jobs. Whatever it is, it’s got to be based in realism. We can’t just say, you know, `The warship’s come and, you know, they transmogrify, the-blah, blah, blah.’ We can’t do that. We can go to some pretty strange places, but at the start, we always have to be about, `How does the audience relate to having done this themselves ?’ (Fresh Air Interview)

Comments

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

God, yes...it really doesn't sound like that's the same guy who writes S8...

[elisi]

Makes you wonder what happened...

[rahirah]

I don't know, that "do it just because it's cool" sounds exactly like the guy who turned Dawn into a giant and gave Buffy (more) superpowers.

[powerofthebook.livejournal.com]

Maybe the real Joss was kidnapped some years ago, and what we're seeing now is Jossbot, as designed by Warren. It's just so difficult to reconcile the man that said those things with the product he's come out with in the past few years.

[elisi]

Maybe the real Joss was kidnapped some years ago, and what we're seeing now is Jossbot, as designed by Warren.
Well that would certainly explain why he decided to bring Warren back in s8...

It's just so difficult to reconcile the man that said those things with the product he's come out with in the past few years.
Maybe Firefly/Serenity really *did* break him, and he's now a disillusioned husk of a writer, selling out so he can feed his family?

[avrelia.livejournal.com]

He put his heart into Firefly, and when it was canceled, he had no more heart left.

Then he sold his soul to get Dollhouse on air for 2 seasons...

[hello-spikey.livejournal.com]

wow... just... wow.

Yeah, I want THAT Joss to write these comics. Plz?

[elisi]

wow... just... wow.
IKR? I don't whether to laugh or cry.

Yeah, I want THAT Joss to write these comics. Plz?
Maybe we can start a petition?

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

*sigh*

I believe the axiom "physician heal thyself" applies to those quotes.

[elisi]

I think that way lies a catch-22...

[petzipellepingo.livejournal.com]

Makes you wonder why we didn't hear about that blow on the head he suffered doesn't it? Or the huge crack addiction.

[elisi]

I was thinking that too. :(

[rahirah]

The thing is, the best comics (just like the best stories in any medium) managed to be cool AND say something about human experience. It's not mutually exclusive.

[elisi]

It's not mutually exclusive.
Oh definitely not. (The Spike comics - to choose a BtVS centric example - had absolutely brilliant moments whilst still being firmly grounded in Spike.) The space frakking OTOH strikes me as all 'cool' and not at all 'human experience'.

And just yesterday I had to reassure someone who never read comics before s8 that the fault wasn't with her (or comics generally) but with that particular story. I hope she tries something else.

[chloris67.livejournal.com]

Oh Joss. Where did you go? Just step back from the comics. They are doing you no good at all.

[elisi]

They are doing you no good at all.
And vice versa...

[gabrielleabelle.livejournal.com]

Your icon made me giggle madly.

I have no comics thoughts.

[elisi]

The icon is by beer_good_foamy, and he made it way back when we first discovered that Warren had 'been saved' by Amy. (It was at that point that people first began to *seriously* question Joss' state of mind. Esp when he later said that he plain forgotten that he'd used Warren in S7 as The First...) BGF, as always, rose to the occasion!

And I don't have any comic thoughts either, except wondering why they're so rubbish. :(

[jnb71976.livejournal.com]

Ugh. The whole thing just makes me sigh and shake my head.

[elisi]

Ahahahaha! Your icon! And yes, the comics have the same effect on me. :(

[eilowyn.livejournal.com]

Everything that we pitch, everything that we put out there, whether or not it works, is based on the idea of: The audience has been through this. A normal girl goes through this. A normal guy deals with this.

Joss is so right! Issue #34 really resonated with me becuase it helped me deal with my issues with that one time I tried fucking in space with my high school boyfriend who everyone (except a few girls with other psychotic issues) thought I was totally over, but when Buffy jumped Angel's bones it was like they had ripped it straight from my life! Joss really knows his stuff, doesn't he?

/sarcasm.

[elisi]

Truly, we are in the presence of a genius.

*nods sagely*

[curiouswombat.livejournal.com]

Whatever it is, it’s got to be based in realism.

Hmm - 'realism' - Dawn the giant, bangel shagging in outer-space, whatever - I don't think that word means what he thinks it means...

[elisi]

Inconceivable!

[http://users.livejournal.com/woman_of_/]

He really seems to have lost his way from that idealistic beginning. I wish he had stuck to his guns and written Season 8 that way, instead of what he is doing now. Oh Joss, you have changed.

[elisi]

He has, hasn't he? *is sad*

(This is one of the reasons I adore RTD. He is absolutely, 100% himself, no matter what, and the only thing that matters to him is to tell the best story he can. If people don't like it? Tough.)

[infinitewhale.livejournal.com]

Joss has done a turnaround on a whole host of things since the comics.

At this point I'm left with no other option than to believe he really is just trying to destroy the characters and 'verse out of spite.

[elisi]

I can't believe he'd deliberately do that, so I guess it's another case of Twilight imitating Twilight, considering all the issues SMeyer obviously has...

[silverusagi]

*headdesk*

He sounds so sane there...

[elisi]

Doesn't he just? Where did that guy go?

[timeofchange.livejournal.com]

Hey, I remember that guy!

[elisi]

Me too! Maybe we should start an expedition to discover where he went?

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

I really like the second quote. Not just in contrast with the comics, but as commentary on BtVS overall. Very nicely put.

As long as we're psychoanalysing Joss, I think I can see why he'd forget that in the excitement of getting to tell a brand new story with these characters. The guy's been working under network/studio/actor/etc restrictions for ages, and I think everyone here can relate to that first moment when they realised "Hey! I can write fanfic and make anything happen!" Still, a pity.

[elisi]

I really like the second quote. Not just in contrast with the comics, but as commentary on BtVS overall. Very nicely put.
*nods vigorously* And you can see it applied in the show! :)

The guy's been working under network/studio/actor/etc restrictions for ages, and I think everyone here can relate to that first moment when they realised "Hey! I can write fanfic and make anything happen!"
Yeah, it's a great temptation. V. sad that he couldn't take that step back...

[speakr2customrs.livejournal.com]

My diagnosis is Early Onset Alzheimer's.

[elisi]

I think he just doesn't care enough. :(

[averageshmoe.livejournal.com]

Comic book writing is a very different discipline than screen writing. The merits of a really good editor cannot be underestimated. He's the last line of defense between the readers and slip shod material.

I've never seen any evidence that Whedon is a good comic book writer. His priorities seem to be skewered. It takes him multiple issues to get into the storyline and by that time I'm gone.

Please forgive me if I sound bitter, it's just because I am. While I admit that some of the IDW material was less than inspired, I still enjoyed it far more than the DH offerings. It seems that the more distance between them and Buffy the more I like Spike and Angel. They seem to get their testosterone back in working order.

[elisi]

The merits of a really good editor cannot be underestimated. He's the last line of defense between the readers and slip shod material.
I don't want to just onto the Scott Allie bashing wagon, but... *shakes head*

I've never seen any evidence that Whedon is a good comic book writer. His priorities seem to be skewered. It takes him multiple issues to get into the storyline and by that time I'm gone.
I've never read any of his other stuff, so I can't comment on those, but s8 seems to be moving at a snail's pace. If I remember correctly it took us TWO YEARS to discover why Dawn had been turned into a giant. And then another year before Buffy did something about it. And this was just a side story...

Please forgive me if I sound bitter, it's just because I am.
Welcome to the club!

While I admit that some of the IDW material was less than inspired, I still enjoyed it far more than the DH offerings.
I've enjoyed everything that Brian Lynch has written (and stopped reading after that).

It seems that the more distance between them and Buffy the more I like Spike and Angel. They seem to get their testosterone back in working order.
You're not wrong. I adore their dynamic and am still hugely disappointed that they were brought into s8 - I'm currently wondering just how much more Spike can be damaged, Angel already being a lost cause... *sigh*

[fenderlove.livejournal.com]

Well, it's a good thing he's writing a comic based on his series that HE BASED IN REALITY (to a certain degree), and yet... his comics aren't normal, aren't based in reality, so I guess Joss is the only one who wins.

[elisi]

Joss is the only one who wins.
Yeah, can't argue with that.