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Day 5. Initial, scattered thoughts. (Everything except the final scene.)
So, was anyone else thinking ‘Schindler’s List’? As almost everything in this series the scenes where they took the children were so harrowing because they could be true. It’s happened. It could happen again.
And the reveal of what the 456 wanted the children for was truly a surprise. I’d seen a lot of speculation - they needed the children to breed, or maybe the children were really in charge and wanted to punish those who’d sent them away... I don’t think anyone saw the truth coming. I think my initial thought was ‘Bloody hell how many more messages can RTD cram into this?’, but hitting people over the head aside, I thought it was clever.
And Frobisher... damn, what a character. The whole ‘He was a good man’ scene was just incredible, and Bridget pwning the Prime Minister was excellent. The fact that the slime ball politician who was only out to cover his own ass will probably be replaced with the disturbingly pragmatic one (“What else are league tables for?”) was cynical, but *so* realistic. (Harriet Jones was truly something else. Oh Doctor, what did you do?) (Not that I’m blaming all this on him, of course, but I couldn’t help thinking it.) Also - Lois! I can like her (again) now when she won’t be taking Ianto’s place.
Oh and Johnson continued to be awesome. I have *such* a kink for highly efficient and competent people, and she with her black ops team just rocked my world. (Even when she was on the wrong side she was damn impressive. THANK YOU for not telling the good guys anything.)
Seriously the women have just kicked all kinds of ass, and I am so, so in awe.
Then the solution... I thought it’d probably be something with the children, and was sure that it would have something to do with Clem. I was also worried that somehow it’d involve Stephen, because why else introduce a child into Jack’s life? I still wasn’t really prepared... There’s so much there, about all the people willing to sacrifice other people’s children, but not their own. And does it make Jack more or less of a monster that he did what they couldn’t? Of course it all ties in with Jack (and heroes generally) always, always paying for their sins.
Thinking about this season, I think what RTD did was that he cannibalised his own show - he took Torchwood and used it to tell a story he wanted to tell. You can see the themes in this peering through in Doctor Who, but that *is* a family show, and it’s limited what you can do. Torchwood was always supposed to be the ‘adult’ version, and this time they finally used that to it’s maximum ability. In the process they destroyed the show as we knew it, and also nearly turned Jack into a complete Doctor clone. I’m not complaining btw - it’s just that Torchwood can show things Who never can. Such as the hero killing his own family to save the world. (I couldn’t watch that part. Fuck this show is dark. And still, we know that this is what the Doctor did too, only on a much bigger scale...)
I’ll get into this more in my post on the final scene, but for that I’m going to have to transcribe the whole thing, and I’m not sure when I’ll find the time. I’ll get there though.
Just wanted to say that I think I’m OK with Ianto’s death. I mean, of course I’m not OK - every time I think about him I get this horrible, empty feeling inside, and I might have to change my banner (like I changed my wallpaper) because I can’t bear to look at him. [don’t start crying I keep having to tell myself]
But.
He got a good death. A huge, enormous, overblown emotional send-off, in best Torchwood style, dying in Jack’s arms, and - hopefully - having managed to get a few home truths through before that, because he was one of the very few people that Jack actually listened to.
And yes, it KILLS me that it’s over, that my beautiful, beautiful messed-up 'ship is gone, but it is a little bit like Chosen. The show is over. The Hub is gone, EVERYTHING is gone... Jack/Ianto was just a moment of calm between the storms, but at least it was there. [Stopwatches make me want to cry now. What am I supposed to *do* now?]
Also he had to die for the sake of the ending. Ianto was probably the only thing in the world that could have kept Jack on Earth (“I came back for you”), so he had to be killed. It’s not something that makes me happy, but I understand it. Nothing left, clean sheet, new start.
By the way - the 'fic' that I posted last night is a letter from Ianto to Jack. I imagine Jack reading this at some point post S3.
::takes deep breath::
Will be back later, as I said, to deal with Jack in the last scene. But there’s a RL to attend to first.
ETA: My first thought to the reveal about Ianto's father? My god talk about jossing endless reams of fanfic...
And the reveal of what the 456 wanted the children for was truly a surprise. I’d seen a lot of speculation - they needed the children to breed, or maybe the children were really in charge and wanted to punish those who’d sent them away... I don’t think anyone saw the truth coming. I think my initial thought was ‘Bloody hell how many more messages can RTD cram into this?’, but hitting people over the head aside, I thought it was clever.
And Frobisher... damn, what a character. The whole ‘He was a good man’ scene was just incredible, and Bridget pwning the Prime Minister was excellent. The fact that the slime ball politician who was only out to cover his own ass will probably be replaced with the disturbingly pragmatic one (“What else are league tables for?”) was cynical, but *so* realistic. (Harriet Jones was truly something else. Oh Doctor, what did you do?) (Not that I’m blaming all this on him, of course, but I couldn’t help thinking it.) Also - Lois! I can like her (again) now when she won’t be taking Ianto’s place.
Oh and Johnson continued to be awesome. I have *such* a kink for highly efficient and competent people, and she with her black ops team just rocked my world. (Even when she was on the wrong side she was damn impressive. THANK YOU for not telling the good guys anything.)
Seriously the women have just kicked all kinds of ass, and I am so, so in awe.
Then the solution... I thought it’d probably be something with the children, and was sure that it would have something to do with Clem. I was also worried that somehow it’d involve Stephen, because why else introduce a child into Jack’s life? I still wasn’t really prepared... There’s so much there, about all the people willing to sacrifice other people’s children, but not their own. And does it make Jack more or less of a monster that he did what they couldn’t? Of course it all ties in with Jack (and heroes generally) always, always paying for their sins.
Thinking about this season, I think what RTD did was that he cannibalised his own show - he took Torchwood and used it to tell a story he wanted to tell. You can see the themes in this peering through in Doctor Who, but that *is* a family show, and it’s limited what you can do. Torchwood was always supposed to be the ‘adult’ version, and this time they finally used that to it’s maximum ability. In the process they destroyed the show as we knew it, and also nearly turned Jack into a complete Doctor clone. I’m not complaining btw - it’s just that Torchwood can show things Who never can. Such as the hero killing his own family to save the world. (I couldn’t watch that part. Fuck this show is dark. And still, we know that this is what the Doctor did too, only on a much bigger scale...)
I’ll get into this more in my post on the final scene, but for that I’m going to have to transcribe the whole thing, and I’m not sure when I’ll find the time. I’ll get there though.
Just wanted to say that I think I’m OK with Ianto’s death. I mean, of course I’m not OK - every time I think about him I get this horrible, empty feeling inside, and I might have to change my banner (like I changed my wallpaper) because I can’t bear to look at him. [don’t start crying I keep having to tell myself]
But.
He got a good death. A huge, enormous, overblown emotional send-off, in best Torchwood style, dying in Jack’s arms, and - hopefully - having managed to get a few home truths through before that, because he was one of the very few people that Jack actually listened to.
And yes, it KILLS me that it’s over, that my beautiful, beautiful messed-up 'ship is gone, but it is a little bit like Chosen. The show is over. The Hub is gone, EVERYTHING is gone... Jack/Ianto was just a moment of calm between the storms, but at least it was there. [Stopwatches make me want to cry now. What am I supposed to *do* now?]
Also he had to die for the sake of the ending. Ianto was probably the only thing in the world that could have kept Jack on Earth (“I came back for you”), so he had to be killed. It’s not something that makes me happy, but I understand it. Nothing left, clean sheet, new start.
By the way - the 'fic' that I posted last night is a letter from Ianto to Jack. I imagine Jack reading this at some point post S3.
::takes deep breath::
Will be back later, as I said, to deal with Jack in the last scene. But there’s a RL to attend to first.
ETA: My first thought to the reveal about Ianto's father? My god talk about jossing endless reams of fanfic...
no subject
Ah, yes, that one.
Actually, having let my mind work on this a while, I've realised (or remembered) that Ianto is quite the wallbuilder himself.
*smacks self on forehead* That was pretty much Ianto for the whole of season one, wasn't it? Wall.
Secondly, he lies himself into Torchwood. He cons the conman. And although Jack is clearly livid, I think he also has a lot of respect (both personal and professional) for someone capable of that kind of deception.
Heh. Makes sense to me.
Rhiannon yells back that their dad worked in Debenhams (a department store): "You didn't know him at all!"
That was one of the few things in CoE that came as a genuine shock for me (since so much else was spoiled). It was like "wow, the poor guy died and you still managed to keep messing with him."
All of which brings me to my point, which is that when it comes to Ianto, there's a give and take when it comes to telling the truth and dismantling walls - they're a lot more equal than, say, Gwen and Jack.
Come to think of it, this is how Barney/Robin worked (or should have worked) on HIMYM--albeit with much more cheerful walls. Unfortunately the writers bungled the execution, but when they worked it was because they both recognized each other's defense mechanisms and could let each other continue to have them while being ready to support each other when they slipped. They were both majorly screwed up, of course.
(with added Janto bit because it makes me MELT)
Lol--sometimes I wondered with Jack's log who it was meant for or might read it (in the fictional context). It occasionally seemed to cross a line from the professionally relevant over into the strictly personal. But I suppose that's enough of a justification right there.
Gwen would never have found the facility if Ianto hadn’t helped her. He was wrong to do that. But, of course, he was actually right in the end. There’s no way Gwen would have let it go. I should have trusted her with the information, but I knew what it would do to her.
That's really why I love that episode right there--all those motivations.
no subject
A wall in a fancy suit. (And the suit is as much of a defense/armour/uniform as Jack's WW2 outfit.)
That was one of the few things in CoE that came as a genuine shock for me (since so much else was spoiled). It was like "wow, the poor guy died and you still managed to keep messing with him."
M-hm. Although it made so much more sense that he came from a poor background (he and Rose, interestingly, being the only proper working class main characters). Oh, and you reminded me that I have a fic that I never finished where Jack goes to visit Ianto's family. Maybe I should take another look at that...
Unfortunately the writers bungled the execution, but when they worked it was because they both recognized each other's defense mechanisms and could let each other continue to have them while being ready to support each other when they slipped. They were both majorly screwed up, of course.
Of course! And I'm sorry that they got screwed by the writers, but that happens way too often. :(
Lol--sometimes I wondered with Jack's log who it was meant for or might read it (in the fictional context).
I always saw it as very private - notes for himself. (Since he'd be at Torchwood for the forseeable future...)
That's really why I love that episode right there--all those motivations.
As it happens,