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Since people are discussing it anyway... my thoughts on S8!Buffy...
OK this? Is *hugely* subjective. And somewhat tongue-in-cheek. If you love S8!Buffy maybe you should just stay clear... (I'm off to spend the evening snuggled up to Darcy, and then I'm going to bed. Might not answer comments, OK?)
Simply put - I don’t like that castle. Thinking about it a bit, it occurred to me that Voll might be easier to understand that it would at first appear. He’s up against an organisation that:
- Has secret headquarters in remote parts of the world.
- Uses helicopters and various high tech equipment for (secret) missions.
- Has a charimsatic leader (with a few doubles to confuse assassins) and an army of loyal, superpowered girls.
Exchange ‘superpowered girls’ with ‘henchmen’ and you have a *classic* Evil Overlord scenario. I mean - seriously. Just think about it for a minute. Of course Buffy isn’t evil, she’s trying to rid the world of badness, but... Didn’t any number of Evil Overlords claim the same? Just look at Jasmine.
The thing is, I just really, really don’t like the fact that she’s stuck in that castle. Has anyone in the entire comic so far interacted with a person who isn’t a Slayer, Scoobie or demon (except for Underground!Buffy talking to her friends before being called)? Joss’ Slayers are saving the world, but they’re not a part of it.
What happened to the Buffy who didn’t just go slaying, she had to look good too (and no, asking fellow Slayers for fashion tips does *not* count!)? The Buffy who wanted to be prom queen? The Buffy who was always, always reaching out to the ordinary people around her? The Buffy who worried if she needed to buy more cereal? The Buffy who loved dancing?
It’s very simple - she’s in Rome, Italy. A country full of sunshine and warmth and LIFE! A place that is old, from whence the whole world was once ruled. (Interestingly, they got as far as Northern England and then didn’t go any further. Scotland was off the map of Ancient Rome...)
I like Buffy being in Rome - the girl from the New World in the ancient city (there's a lot of nice themes or metaphors wrapped up in that, but I don't have time to delve). Trying to get to grips with a new language, actually living amidst history (which is a subject she enjoys!), a place full of passion and vividness, wonderful food and a wholesome appetite for life, generally.
Because the thing is, in their last moments together, Spike told Buffy:
‘It’s your world up there.’
I don’t care if the line didn’t make it onto screen, this was still his message to her - an echo of his song in OMWF:
‘You have to go on living. So one of us is living.’
The Buffy who’s in Rome understood that. She might be the head of a thousand strong Slayer army, but she also has time for shopping and dancing and snuggling up with her gorgeous immortal lover, who might or might not be evil. She has a type, and she’s finally stopped worrying about it.
Compared to S8!Buffy, living in what is practically a convent, and lusting after/having nightmares about her best friend because he’s the only male within a 50 mile radius... well... I’m reminded of this (from Triangle):
BUFFY: So, um, a-about being a nun... you know, um, with the whole ... abjuring the company of men ... you know, how's that working for you? The... abjuring.
NUN: Um ... good.
BUFFY: Yeah, do you, do you have to be like super-religious?
NUN: Well, uh...
BUFFY: How's the food?
I dunno. It’s not that she can’t be miserable in Rome (or wherever), it’s that she’s so particularly cut off in that castle...
And, to quote shapinglight:
The castle is just silly and what's more, the Queen is getting jolly fed up of living in the gamekeeper's cottage. She wants those strange Americans to move out now.
Simply put - I don’t like that castle. Thinking about it a bit, it occurred to me that Voll might be easier to understand that it would at first appear. He’s up against an organisation that:
- Has secret headquarters in remote parts of the world.
- Uses helicopters and various high tech equipment for (secret) missions.
- Has a charimsatic leader (with a few doubles to confuse assassins) and an army of loyal, superpowered girls.
Exchange ‘superpowered girls’ with ‘henchmen’ and you have a *classic* Evil Overlord scenario. I mean - seriously. Just think about it for a minute. Of course Buffy isn’t evil, she’s trying to rid the world of badness, but... Didn’t any number of Evil Overlords claim the same? Just look at Jasmine.
The thing is, I just really, really don’t like the fact that she’s stuck in that castle. Has anyone in the entire comic so far interacted with a person who isn’t a Slayer, Scoobie or demon (except for Underground!Buffy talking to her friends before being called)? Joss’ Slayers are saving the world, but they’re not a part of it.
What happened to the Buffy who didn’t just go slaying, she had to look good too (and no, asking fellow Slayers for fashion tips does *not* count!)? The Buffy who wanted to be prom queen? The Buffy who was always, always reaching out to the ordinary people around her? The Buffy who worried if she needed to buy more cereal? The Buffy who loved dancing?
It’s very simple - she’s in Rome, Italy. A country full of sunshine and warmth and LIFE! A place that is old, from whence the whole world was once ruled. (Interestingly, they got as far as Northern England and then didn’t go any further. Scotland was off the map of Ancient Rome...)
I like Buffy being in Rome - the girl from the New World in the ancient city (there's a lot of nice themes or metaphors wrapped up in that, but I don't have time to delve). Trying to get to grips with a new language, actually living amidst history (which is a subject she enjoys!), a place full of passion and vividness, wonderful food and a wholesome appetite for life, generally.
Because the thing is, in their last moments together, Spike told Buffy:
‘It’s your world up there.’
I don’t care if the line didn’t make it onto screen, this was still his message to her - an echo of his song in OMWF:
‘You have to go on living. So one of us is living.’
The Buffy who’s in Rome understood that. She might be the head of a thousand strong Slayer army, but she also has time for shopping and dancing and snuggling up with her gorgeous immortal lover, who might or might not be evil. She has a type, and she’s finally stopped worrying about it.
Compared to S8!Buffy, living in what is practically a convent, and lusting after/having nightmares about her best friend because he’s the only male within a 50 mile radius... well... I’m reminded of this (from Triangle):
BUFFY: So, um, a-about being a nun... you know, um, with the whole ... abjuring the company of men ... you know, how's that working for you? The... abjuring.
NUN: Um ... good.
BUFFY: Yeah, do you, do you have to be like super-religious?
NUN: Well, uh...
BUFFY: How's the food?
I dunno. It’s not that she can’t be miserable in Rome (or wherever), it’s that she’s so particularly cut off in that castle...
And, to quote shapinglight:
The castle is just silly and what's more, the Queen is getting jolly fed up of living in the gamekeeper's cottage. She wants those strange Americans to move out now.
no subject
They COULD be, but I don't recall anything whatsoever even vaguely suggesting that they ARE. By that logic, anything that looks human could be from another reality (remember Kathy?) and Buffy would never have to follow the "don't kill humans" rule. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...
Buffy is similarily trapped in enemy territory and General Voll is significantly less likely to be reliably informative in the short time thay have before they get caught
Right. Hence it would be a good idea to bring him along and question him afterwards (just like it would have been a good idea for Willow to take the books and run rather than read them in the Mayor's office).
So all Voll's words do is confirm what she already knew
Not at all. Like I said above, he even went as far as to contradict her when she was mistaken about their goals, so that's obviously not the case. If Voll hadn't said anything, she would probably had put two and two together, but she would never have known *why* she's being targeted. That's a pretty important piece of information he gives up for no reason.
no subject
Ok if I raise your reductioad absurdum with a guilt by association can we let this lie. The only person who had any idea who the damm kniggets were was Glory the girl from the hell dimension.
Hence it would be a good idea to bring him along and question him afterwards
The last time they tried the old kidnap first question later trick it ended with Faith go boom.
She would never have known *why* she's being targeted. That's a pretty important piece of information he gives up for no reason.
Important how tactically? How does it change what she would expect them to do next? What new defences does it allow her to devise other than depowering the 'spawn' in the hope that then Twilight will disband? It's as useful in practical terms as learning that the First's emergence had something to do with Buffy's ressurrection.
no subject
The last time they tried the old kidnap first question later trick it ended with Faith go boom.
As far as I recall, that was the first time they tried it. The last time they tried it, it ended with Andrew closing the seal with his tears. (Speaking of silly plot twists.) ;-)
Important how tactically? How does it change what she would expect them to do next?
Before Voll opened his mouth, Buffy knew only that there were a few dozen soldiers under Sunnydale who were somehow in league with Amy and some random demons. She had no idea what their goal was. She now knows that their motivation runs much deeper than simply a fight for turf, some random apocalypse, or to put women in their place. She now knows that her opponents aren't simply a random band of demons and soldiers, but the very thing she's fought to defend all these years. She now knows that they believe themselves to be fighting for the survival of the human race. And nothing's more dangerous than a fanatic who would rather die than surrender. Learning that your enemy, potentially, numbers in the billions and believes not only her actions but her very existence to be unacceptable... that's hardly useless information. The first step to devising a defense is always to understand what your enemy is trying to achieve.
But this discussion isn't really going anywhere, is it? We're discussing the motivations of a fictional character whom we know next to nothing about... and I have a Simpsons crossover to write. :-)