Since people are discussing it anyway... my thoughts on S8!Buffy...

[elisi]

OK this? Is *hugely* subjective. And somewhat tongue-in-cheek. If you love S8!Buffy maybe you should just stay clear... (I'm off to spend the evening snuggled up to Darcy, and then I'm going to bed. Might not answer comments, OK?)

Simply put - I don’t like that castle. Thinking about it a bit, it occurred to me that Voll might be easier to understand that it would at first appear. He’s up against an organisation that:

- Has secret headquarters in remote parts of the world.
- Uses helicopters and various high tech equipment for (secret) missions.
- Has a charimsatic leader (with a few doubles to confuse assassins) and an army of loyal, superpowered girls.

Exchange ‘superpowered girls’ with ‘henchmen’ and you have a *classic* Evil Overlord scenario. I mean - seriously. Just think about it for a minute. Of course Buffy isn’t evil, she’s trying to rid the world of badness, but... Didn’t any number of Evil Overlords claim the same? Just look at Jasmine.

The thing is, I just really, really don’t like the fact that she’s stuck in that castle. Has anyone in the entire comic so far interacted with a person who isn’t a Slayer, Scoobie or demon (except for Underground!Buffy talking to her friends before being called)? Joss’ Slayers are saving the world, but they’re not a part of it.

What happened to the Buffy who didn’t just go slaying, she had to look good too (and no, asking fellow Slayers for fashion tips does *not* count!)? The Buffy who wanted to be prom queen? The Buffy who was always, always reaching out to the ordinary people around her? The Buffy who worried if she needed to buy more cereal? The Buffy who loved dancing?

It’s very simple - she’s in Rome, Italy. A country full of sunshine and warmth and LIFE! A place that is old, from whence the whole world was once ruled. (Interestingly, they got as far as Northern England and then didn’t go any further. Scotland was off the map of Ancient Rome...)

I like Buffy being in Rome - the girl from the New World in the ancient city (there's a lot of nice themes or metaphors wrapped up in that, but I don't have time to delve). Trying to get to grips with a new language, actually living amidst history (which is a subject she enjoys!), a place full of passion and vividness, wonderful food and a wholesome appetite for life, generally.

Because the thing is, in their last moments together, Spike told Buffy:

‘It’s your world up there.’

I don’t care if the line didn’t make it onto screen, this was still his message to her - an echo of his song in OMWF:

‘You have to go on living. So one of us is living.’

The Buffy who’s in Rome understood that. She might be the head of a thousand strong Slayer army, but she also has time for shopping and dancing and snuggling up with her gorgeous immortal lover, who might or might not be evil. She has a type, and she’s finally stopped worrying about it.

Compared to S8!Buffy, living in what is practically a convent, and lusting after/having nightmares about her best friend because he’s the only male within a 50 mile radius... well... I’m reminded of this (from Triangle):

BUFFY: So, um, a-about being a nun... you know, um, with the whole ... abjuring the company of men ... you know, how's that working for you? The... abjuring.
NUN: Um ... good.
BUFFY: Yeah, do you, do you have to be like super-religious?
NUN: Well, uh...
BUFFY: How's the food?

I dunno. It’s not that she can’t be miserable in Rome (or wherever), it’s that she’s so particularly cut off in that castle...

And, to quote shapinglight:

The castle is just silly and what's more, the Queen is getting jolly fed up of living in the gamekeeper's cottage. She wants those strange Americans to move out now.

Comments

[elisi]

It looks to me as if you just want Buffy to have a happy ending.
Well of COURSE I want her to have a happy ending. And obviously life is never that simple. And I doubt she'll stay in Rome forever, just like Xander won't forever wander around in Africa etc. From what Andrew said in Damage it would appear that Buffy's staying in Rome because Dawn's at school there. 99% of stories have her set up some sort of Slayer academy thing. Actually pre-Damage most fics put her (& friends) in London, rebuilding the Watcher's Council. Which still makes a lot more sense than Scottish castles.

Anyway - I still think just about any place on the planet would be better and more interesting than that castle. Joss doesn't need it for telling his story for a start... Rain down hell on Buffy, fine, but at least let her be within driving distance of a shopping centre!

Really, the Buffy you're describing there is the Buffy from the early seasons.
Actually, it isn't. Well except for the prom queen thing. As for the rest:

What happened to the Buffy who didn’t just go slaying, she had to look good too?
'Stylish, yet affordable boots' (OMWF), haircut in 'Gone', worrying about her outfit in 'First Date', and lovely hair + makeup + outfit for her battle against The First (Chosen). (To mention just a few.)

The Buffy who was always, always reaching out to the ordinary people around her?
I was thinking of Cassie in 'Help' when I wrote that - and all the other kids she tried to help as a councellor.

The Buffy who worried if she needed to buy more cereal?
This came from AYW (Dawn mentions it).

The Buffy who loved dancing?
I'm so sad Buffy didn't do any dancing in the later seasons, and it's one of the reasons I really love TGiQ. My girl should be dancing, even if the world is falling apart. The rest of the Scoobies did, and I don't see anyone complain about that.

S7 Buffy was far more focussed on her mission, far less carefree, far more cut off from anything not Slaying-related.
Which was not a good thing - she was trying to be someone she wasn't, was doing things the way Giles thought best, the way she thought she *had* to. As S7 progressed she became more and more isolated, cutting herself off very much in the way of Angel ('hearts get in the way'). The wonderful thing about Touched - and everything from then on - is that she stops trying to be 'General Buffy', and starts being 'just Buffy' again. Look at the Scoobie conversation in 'Chosen', all about mini golf and shoe shopping - because that's what life is really about. Living. Of course they know that they have heavy responsibilites, but that just makes the frivolous stuff *more* important.

I'm not sure I'm expressing this very well, sorry. And now I really have to run. But it is very important somehow - a Buffy who doesn't go out dancing post-Chosen, quite simply because she *can*, is one who didn't learn a thing during S7.

[stormwreath.livejournal.com]

The trouble with happy endings is that they're endings. If you want to tell a new story about the same characters, you have to put them into a difficult situation again.

Buffy the schoolgirl, Buffy the student, Buffy the school counseller - I can imagine her living in a normal house. Buffy the leader of an organised army of superheroes, powerful enough to be considered a threat by entire governments - I can't see it. The castle is simply appropriate. It's out of the way, well-defended, and allows all sorts of strange goings-on out of the public eye.

It would be, um, novel to have a story where 50-foot-tall Dawn and flying Willow defend Buffy's apartment in Rome against an army of thousands of zombies, but it strains credibility even more than the castle, IMO. :-)

And I do think Buffy has learned from her mistakes in season 7 - just maybe she's learned different lessons. She's more relaxed, more open, more in touch with her friends and colleagues. And she's now buying her clothes from Anthropologie, apparently; possibly online if she can't drive into Inverness or Aberdeen on a regular basis... But what she's mentally incapable of doing, I think, is abandoning her responsibilities. That's what the AU Buffy of the GirlinQuestionverse has done, but it's not my Buffy...

Or Joss's, seemingly.
;-)

[elisi]

If you want to tell a new story about the same characters, you have to put them into a difficult situation again.
Well obviously. I just hoped that Joss would think of something better...

The castle is simply appropriate. It's out of the way, well-defended, and allows all sorts of strange goings-on out of the public eye.
Yes, but Buffy doesn't belong in a D&D game, sorry. There was always tension between the normal world and the supernatural - taking that away leaves a big empty hole. (The *Faith* story manages this beautifully...)

That's what the AU Buffy of the GirlinQuestionverse has done
Says who? I've only ever read *one* story where Buffy gave up her slaying, and (although it was a lovely fic) she felt rather OOC, to say the least. Faith lives in an apartment, by herself, why shouldn't Buffy? Lord knows she deserves some peace after her house being overrun with Potentials for months and months. (Oh and TGIQ is canon with bells on! Stupid plot and everything.)

And speaking of stories continuing, then *my* post-Chosen Buffy (from 'Maybe Someday', which is my main 'verse) lives in Rome, tries her best to lead a lot of Slayers, and will soon be facing another Apocalypse. It is perfectly possible to fight evil whilst enjoying the Italian sunshine.

[stormwreath.livejournal.com]

Buffy doesn't belong in a D&D game, sorry. There was always tension between the normal world and the supernatural - taking that away leaves a big empty hole. (The *Faith* story manages this beautifully...)

But the Faith story and the Buffy story (and the Nameless Slayer story) are all chapters in the same [comic] book! In fact, issue 5 was pretty much all about the tension between the normal world and the supernatural, and the decisions people have to make about that. Just because specific issues have a ifferent story to tell doesn't mean the season as a whole is ignoring the issue - just like there were entire episodes of the TV show where Buffy didn't interact with anyone who wasn't either super-powered or a Scooby.

Faith lives in an apartment, by herself, why shouldn't Buffy?

No reason; I'd have no problem with her living in an apartment and commuting to work. I would have a problem with her trying to run a 500-Slayer army from her apartment. She had enough of that in season 7... And a secret underground Slayer base under Buffy's apartment would be even more clichéd than the castle, not to mention too close to what they already did in season 4.

Oh and TGIQ is canon with bells on! Stupid plot and everything.

It's canon that Spike and Angel went to Rome, met Andrew, and were told that somebody called "Buffy" was going out with somebody called "The Immortal." For anything beyond that, you have to choose whether you want to believe what the writer says happens in his own story, or not...

[elisi]

For anything beyond that, you have to choose whether you want to believe what the writer says happens in his own story, or not...
I don;t have a specific prolem with Rome!Buffy being a decoy - I've used it myself as you know. But 'the writer' most definitely ret-conned his own story, and for what? I like ret-cons if they're good, elegant and add to the story (see S4 of AtS). Heck I even like them when they're silly (see 'Why We Fight'). I *don't* like them when what we get is lame and the writer has forgotten his own canon. (OK that last bit was a rant against the Warren thing...)

Must run. But I'm not saying that Buffy is running a 500 Slayer army 'from her apartment'. It's being run from The (New) Council, London, England. And the Slayers are a lot more spread out than the '50-in-a-squad' that Joss has going on. Always seemed a little overkill to me.

[elisi]

I would have a problem with her trying to run a 500-Slayer army from her apartment.
Addendum: Buffy isn't exactly running a 500-Slayer army from that castle either. Oh it's obviously some sort of 'command central', and we see Xander giving orders (again, not Buffy, she wasn't available), but we know that Giles is pottering around in the background, dealing with all sorts of things that Buffy doesn't know about. The power behind the throne. And still refusing to take any direct responsibility...

See what I like about most post-Chosen fics is that Giles becomes the Head of the Council. Yes, Buffy needed to be in charge for the all-out war, and to protect the potentials. But she wouldn't have a clue how to run a global organisation like what the Watchers used to have, and could easily have again.

Bother, must run!

[elisi]

Re. my fic - I was talking about the *sequel* to 'Maybe Someday' which is currently a WIP and won't be posted until it is complete. In case I was confusing.