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Since people are discussing it anyway... my thoughts on S8!Buffy...
OK this? Is *hugely* subjective. And somewhat tongue-in-cheek. If you love S8!Buffy maybe you should just stay clear... (I'm off to spend the evening snuggled up to Darcy, and then I'm going to bed. Might not answer comments, OK?)
Simply put - I don’t like that castle. Thinking about it a bit, it occurred to me that Voll might be easier to understand that it would at first appear. He’s up against an organisation that:
- Has secret headquarters in remote parts of the world.
- Uses helicopters and various high tech equipment for (secret) missions.
- Has a charimsatic leader (with a few doubles to confuse assassins) and an army of loyal, superpowered girls.
Exchange ‘superpowered girls’ with ‘henchmen’ and you have a *classic* Evil Overlord scenario. I mean - seriously. Just think about it for a minute. Of course Buffy isn’t evil, she’s trying to rid the world of badness, but... Didn’t any number of Evil Overlords claim the same? Just look at Jasmine.
The thing is, I just really, really don’t like the fact that she’s stuck in that castle. Has anyone in the entire comic so far interacted with a person who isn’t a Slayer, Scoobie or demon (except for Underground!Buffy talking to her friends before being called)? Joss’ Slayers are saving the world, but they’re not a part of it.
What happened to the Buffy who didn’t just go slaying, she had to look good too (and no, asking fellow Slayers for fashion tips does *not* count!)? The Buffy who wanted to be prom queen? The Buffy who was always, always reaching out to the ordinary people around her? The Buffy who worried if she needed to buy more cereal? The Buffy who loved dancing?
It’s very simple - she’s in Rome, Italy. A country full of sunshine and warmth and LIFE! A place that is old, from whence the whole world was once ruled. (Interestingly, they got as far as Northern England and then didn’t go any further. Scotland was off the map of Ancient Rome...)
I like Buffy being in Rome - the girl from the New World in the ancient city (there's a lot of nice themes or metaphors wrapped up in that, but I don't have time to delve). Trying to get to grips with a new language, actually living amidst history (which is a subject she enjoys!), a place full of passion and vividness, wonderful food and a wholesome appetite for life, generally.
Because the thing is, in their last moments together, Spike told Buffy:
‘It’s your world up there.’
I don’t care if the line didn’t make it onto screen, this was still his message to her - an echo of his song in OMWF:
‘You have to go on living. So one of us is living.’
The Buffy who’s in Rome understood that. She might be the head of a thousand strong Slayer army, but she also has time for shopping and dancing and snuggling up with her gorgeous immortal lover, who might or might not be evil. She has a type, and she’s finally stopped worrying about it.
Compared to S8!Buffy, living in what is practically a convent, and lusting after/having nightmares about her best friend because he’s the only male within a 50 mile radius... well... I’m reminded of this (from Triangle):
BUFFY: So, um, a-about being a nun... you know, um, with the whole ... abjuring the company of men ... you know, how's that working for you? The... abjuring.
NUN: Um ... good.
BUFFY: Yeah, do you, do you have to be like super-religious?
NUN: Well, uh...
BUFFY: How's the food?
I dunno. It’s not that she can’t be miserable in Rome (or wherever), it’s that she’s so particularly cut off in that castle...
And, to quote shapinglight:
The castle is just silly and what's more, the Queen is getting jolly fed up of living in the gamekeeper's cottage. She wants those strange Americans to move out now.
Simply put - I don’t like that castle. Thinking about it a bit, it occurred to me that Voll might be easier to understand that it would at first appear. He’s up against an organisation that:
- Has secret headquarters in remote parts of the world.
- Uses helicopters and various high tech equipment for (secret) missions.
- Has a charimsatic leader (with a few doubles to confuse assassins) and an army of loyal, superpowered girls.
Exchange ‘superpowered girls’ with ‘henchmen’ and you have a *classic* Evil Overlord scenario. I mean - seriously. Just think about it for a minute. Of course Buffy isn’t evil, she’s trying to rid the world of badness, but... Didn’t any number of Evil Overlords claim the same? Just look at Jasmine.
The thing is, I just really, really don’t like the fact that she’s stuck in that castle. Has anyone in the entire comic so far interacted with a person who isn’t a Slayer, Scoobie or demon (except for Underground!Buffy talking to her friends before being called)? Joss’ Slayers are saving the world, but they’re not a part of it.
What happened to the Buffy who didn’t just go slaying, she had to look good too (and no, asking fellow Slayers for fashion tips does *not* count!)? The Buffy who wanted to be prom queen? The Buffy who was always, always reaching out to the ordinary people around her? The Buffy who worried if she needed to buy more cereal? The Buffy who loved dancing?
It’s very simple - she’s in Rome, Italy. A country full of sunshine and warmth and LIFE! A place that is old, from whence the whole world was once ruled. (Interestingly, they got as far as Northern England and then didn’t go any further. Scotland was off the map of Ancient Rome...)
I like Buffy being in Rome - the girl from the New World in the ancient city (there's a lot of nice themes or metaphors wrapped up in that, but I don't have time to delve). Trying to get to grips with a new language, actually living amidst history (which is a subject she enjoys!), a place full of passion and vividness, wonderful food and a wholesome appetite for life, generally.
Because the thing is, in their last moments together, Spike told Buffy:
‘It’s your world up there.’
I don’t care if the line didn’t make it onto screen, this was still his message to her - an echo of his song in OMWF:
‘You have to go on living. So one of us is living.’
The Buffy who’s in Rome understood that. She might be the head of a thousand strong Slayer army, but she also has time for shopping and dancing and snuggling up with her gorgeous immortal lover, who might or might not be evil. She has a type, and she’s finally stopped worrying about it.
Compared to S8!Buffy, living in what is practically a convent, and lusting after/having nightmares about her best friend because he’s the only male within a 50 mile radius... well... I’m reminded of this (from Triangle):
BUFFY: So, um, a-about being a nun... you know, um, with the whole ... abjuring the company of men ... you know, how's that working for you? The... abjuring.
NUN: Um ... good.
BUFFY: Yeah, do you, do you have to be like super-religious?
NUN: Well, uh...
BUFFY: How's the food?
I dunno. It’s not that she can’t be miserable in Rome (or wherever), it’s that she’s so particularly cut off in that castle...
And, to quote shapinglight:
The castle is just silly and what's more, the Queen is getting jolly fed up of living in the gamekeeper's cottage. She wants those strange Americans to move out now.
no subject
Which speech are you thinking of? For some reason, I'm blanking. "Villains"?
The other thing that gets me--and this is absolutely subjective--is how the characters don't have much in the way of individualism. They come off as different facets of an abstract singular character 'Scoobies'.
That's a good point, especially in the early years, when they all spoke the special Jossian joke-speak. It was a good approximation of the way teeangers tend to carbon-copy each other, and it did make sense that they'd grow apart in later years, and stop sounding (and thinking) so much alike.
When you think of Buffy in S3, you think of the other characters; when you think of Buffy in S6, you think of Buffy. That probably didn't make sense.
I think I get it - the early seasons were much more about the ensemble. The later ones focused more on Buffy alone, and there was far less of a group dynamic. Part of that would be because Buffy's activities weren't opened up to the group opinion in the later years like they were in the previous ones, like the way her relationship with Spike was conducted mostly off the table as far as the Scoobies were concerned, even in S7, very different from her relationship with Angel.
Remember how when XXXX would appear on Angel or vice versa and just be completely out of character and WTFable? That's what this feels like.
Yeah, I'm with you on that. I remember being very taken aback by Spike's appearance in "In the Dark," because that was the first time he'd been presented as dumb in terms of planning instead of just impatient; that's kind of what I feel like we're getting here. In order for the plot to work, the characters have to be changed.
no subject
Yeah, that's the one. It's not an exact parallel to what we're talking about, but exhibits that the characters actually had brains and could discern things without it being spelled out. There are many examples in the series proper, of course, probably better ones, but that's the one that popped in my head first.
It was a good approximation of the way teeangers tend to carbon-copy each other, and it did make sense that they'd grow apart in later years, and stop sounding (and thinking) so much alike.
Indeed. And to me, that seems to be lost here, like he's trying to go back to that dynamic when the series was most popular. Everyone's happy with each other (save for Buffy/Dawn) and the speech patterns seem to reflect that.
Me, I'm a Buffy fan, first and foremost. I, uh, don't care about the rest of them outside that and would prefer things to focus on her more than the group. That's a personal thing, but, well, I can't say that I feel it's out of line in Buffy, the Vampire Slayer.
In order for the plot to work, the characters have to be changed.
Uh huh. Sad. :( Very sad, because there was SO much opportunity there.