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Since people are discussing it anyway... my thoughts on S8!Buffy...
OK this? Is *hugely* subjective. And somewhat tongue-in-cheek. If you love S8!Buffy maybe you should just stay clear... (I'm off to spend the evening snuggled up to Darcy, and then I'm going to bed. Might not answer comments, OK?)
Simply put - I don’t like that castle. Thinking about it a bit, it occurred to me that Voll might be easier to understand that it would at first appear. He’s up against an organisation that:
- Has secret headquarters in remote parts of the world.
- Uses helicopters and various high tech equipment for (secret) missions.
- Has a charimsatic leader (with a few doubles to confuse assassins) and an army of loyal, superpowered girls.
Exchange ‘superpowered girls’ with ‘henchmen’ and you have a *classic* Evil Overlord scenario. I mean - seriously. Just think about it for a minute. Of course Buffy isn’t evil, she’s trying to rid the world of badness, but... Didn’t any number of Evil Overlords claim the same? Just look at Jasmine.
The thing is, I just really, really don’t like the fact that she’s stuck in that castle. Has anyone in the entire comic so far interacted with a person who isn’t a Slayer, Scoobie or demon (except for Underground!Buffy talking to her friends before being called)? Joss’ Slayers are saving the world, but they’re not a part of it.
What happened to the Buffy who didn’t just go slaying, she had to look good too (and no, asking fellow Slayers for fashion tips does *not* count!)? The Buffy who wanted to be prom queen? The Buffy who was always, always reaching out to the ordinary people around her? The Buffy who worried if she needed to buy more cereal? The Buffy who loved dancing?
It’s very simple - she’s in Rome, Italy. A country full of sunshine and warmth and LIFE! A place that is old, from whence the whole world was once ruled. (Interestingly, they got as far as Northern England and then didn’t go any further. Scotland was off the map of Ancient Rome...)
I like Buffy being in Rome - the girl from the New World in the ancient city (there's a lot of nice themes or metaphors wrapped up in that, but I don't have time to delve). Trying to get to grips with a new language, actually living amidst history (which is a subject she enjoys!), a place full of passion and vividness, wonderful food and a wholesome appetite for life, generally.
Because the thing is, in their last moments together, Spike told Buffy:
‘It’s your world up there.’
I don’t care if the line didn’t make it onto screen, this was still his message to her - an echo of his song in OMWF:
‘You have to go on living. So one of us is living.’
The Buffy who’s in Rome understood that. She might be the head of a thousand strong Slayer army, but she also has time for shopping and dancing and snuggling up with her gorgeous immortal lover, who might or might not be evil. She has a type, and she’s finally stopped worrying about it.
Compared to S8!Buffy, living in what is practically a convent, and lusting after/having nightmares about her best friend because he’s the only male within a 50 mile radius... well... I’m reminded of this (from Triangle):
BUFFY: So, um, a-about being a nun... you know, um, with the whole ... abjuring the company of men ... you know, how's that working for you? The... abjuring.
NUN: Um ... good.
BUFFY: Yeah, do you, do you have to be like super-religious?
NUN: Well, uh...
BUFFY: How's the food?
I dunno. It’s not that she can’t be miserable in Rome (or wherever), it’s that she’s so particularly cut off in that castle...
And, to quote shapinglight:
The castle is just silly and what's more, the Queen is getting jolly fed up of living in the gamekeeper's cottage. She wants those strange Americans to move out now.
Simply put - I don’t like that castle. Thinking about it a bit, it occurred to me that Voll might be easier to understand that it would at first appear. He’s up against an organisation that:
- Has secret headquarters in remote parts of the world.
- Uses helicopters and various high tech equipment for (secret) missions.
- Has a charimsatic leader (with a few doubles to confuse assassins) and an army of loyal, superpowered girls.
Exchange ‘superpowered girls’ with ‘henchmen’ and you have a *classic* Evil Overlord scenario. I mean - seriously. Just think about it for a minute. Of course Buffy isn’t evil, she’s trying to rid the world of badness, but... Didn’t any number of Evil Overlords claim the same? Just look at Jasmine.
The thing is, I just really, really don’t like the fact that she’s stuck in that castle. Has anyone in the entire comic so far interacted with a person who isn’t a Slayer, Scoobie or demon (except for Underground!Buffy talking to her friends before being called)? Joss’ Slayers are saving the world, but they’re not a part of it.
What happened to the Buffy who didn’t just go slaying, she had to look good too (and no, asking fellow Slayers for fashion tips does *not* count!)? The Buffy who wanted to be prom queen? The Buffy who was always, always reaching out to the ordinary people around her? The Buffy who worried if she needed to buy more cereal? The Buffy who loved dancing?
It’s very simple - she’s in Rome, Italy. A country full of sunshine and warmth and LIFE! A place that is old, from whence the whole world was once ruled. (Interestingly, they got as far as Northern England and then didn’t go any further. Scotland was off the map of Ancient Rome...)
I like Buffy being in Rome - the girl from the New World in the ancient city (there's a lot of nice themes or metaphors wrapped up in that, but I don't have time to delve). Trying to get to grips with a new language, actually living amidst history (which is a subject she enjoys!), a place full of passion and vividness, wonderful food and a wholesome appetite for life, generally.
Because the thing is, in their last moments together, Spike told Buffy:
‘It’s your world up there.’
I don’t care if the line didn’t make it onto screen, this was still his message to her - an echo of his song in OMWF:
‘You have to go on living. So one of us is living.’
The Buffy who’s in Rome understood that. She might be the head of a thousand strong Slayer army, but she also has time for shopping and dancing and snuggling up with her gorgeous immortal lover, who might or might not be evil. She has a type, and she’s finally stopped worrying about it.
Compared to S8!Buffy, living in what is practically a convent, and lusting after/having nightmares about her best friend because he’s the only male within a 50 mile radius... well... I’m reminded of this (from Triangle):
BUFFY: So, um, a-about being a nun... you know, um, with the whole ... abjuring the company of men ... you know, how's that working for you? The... abjuring.
NUN: Um ... good.
BUFFY: Yeah, do you, do you have to be like super-religious?
NUN: Well, uh...
BUFFY: How's the food?
I dunno. It’s not that she can’t be miserable in Rome (or wherever), it’s that she’s so particularly cut off in that castle...
And, to quote shapinglight:
The castle is just silly and what's more, the Queen is getting jolly fed up of living in the gamekeeper's cottage. She wants those strange Americans to move out now.
no subject
Trust Buffy to place herself outwith the ken of Empires, the girl’s a rebel at heart. People seem to keep missing the point that while Slayer.org is isolated within that org Buffy is closer to her friends and her colleagues/sisters/protégés than she has been since she coming back from the dead. Her world is made up of people not shopping malls and ancient monuments and Slayers are people too. People she works with people she’s helping people helping one another, she’s finally moved on from that lone martyr complex. Yes it’s a problem that she’s so little contact with anyone not in the biz and one with great potential for future conflict. I think what we’re seeing with the castle is a metaphor not for isolation but for the kind of 24/7 vocational focus people have when they’re lucky enough to find a career that suits them.
Because the thing is, in their last moments together, Spike told Buffy:
‘It’s your world up there.’
I don’t care if the line didn’t make it onto screen, this was still his message to her - an echo of his song in OMWF:
‘You have to go on living. So one of us is living.’
I always found that last line of Spike’s song revealingly creepy- she has to go on living for his sake, it’s what he needs. That aside is this the real root of all your complaints that Buffy isn’t doing what Spike told her to do? She’s living a life that has nothing to do with her romantic type and which neither confirms or denies what that type is?
no subject
She and Dawn are *not* on good terms. Xander she's fine with, except for those nightmares... Willow has been missing for *ages*, although they're obviously still good (there has to be a fallout of some sort though). And that's pretty much it. Giles she barely has contact with. Andrew (who I wouldn't classify as a 'friend' anyway) is in Italy. The Potentials that she bonded with in Sunnydale are off elsewhere too. Anya is dead. Spike likewise (as far as she knows). Angel's working for Evil Inc. Her new fellow slayers are in awe of her and call her Ma'am.
I think what we’re seeing with the castle is a metaphor not for isolation but for the kind of 24/7 vocational focus people have when they’re lucky enough to find a career that suits them.
I just can't really see it. Not that she isn't enjoying working with her fellow slayers, but she doesn't seem happy or particularly focussed. Also I think she ought to go back to uni - she was a good student, and had fun learning. This could prefectly well be combined with Slaying.
I always found that last line of Spike’s song revealingly creepy- she has to go on living for his sake, it’s what he needs.
*blinks* He saved her life - one of the only times she's was saved from certain death (the Scoobies were less than useless) - and then *he* (a dead man) explains what life is about: "Life's not a song, life isn't bliss, life is just this - it's living. You'll get along, the pain that you feel, you only can heal, by living. You have to go on living - so one of us is living." And then Dawn repeats Buffy's own words back to her: "The hardest thing in this world is to live in it."
It's not that she has to live *for* him (Chosen is the main culprit there, echoing what Angel said when he broke up with her), but that being dead he understands life... not that he wants to be human at that point, but we see later how he is as attracted to the shanshu as Angel is - because, being on the outside, they understand life better than those on the inside and know what they're missing out on. To quote Entropy:
It's no wonder they couldn't deal with the likes of you and me, luv. We should have been dead hundreds of years ago ... and we're the only ones who are really alive.
(Sorry, didn't mean to go on. But I love that subject.)
She’s living a life that has nothing to do with her romantic type and which neither confirms or denies what that type is?
My problem is - to quote James from 'Heartthrob':
"You think you won - just because you're still alive? - I lived. - You just existed."
Buffy in S8 is just existing. There's none of that zest for life that I always adored.
But then again, that is just my opinion - told you this was a hugely subjective post. I think Buffy is wasting her life in that castle... when she could be *anywhere*, doing anything.
no subject
Xander she's fine with. Willow, they're obviously still good. And that's pretty much it. Her new fellow slayers are in awe of her and call her Ma'am.
So essentially she’s regained that exceptional closeness with Xander and Willow and has built up a solid respectful and wholly appropriate relationship with the new Slayers. She looks happy to me in a realistic way - she’s never since Hemery been one to go for quantity over quality of friendships. Whereas in the Rome scenario all she had was Dawn, occasional visits from Andrew and the mysterious Immortal who most fic seems to write as either evil or a complete boy toy.
Also I think she ought to go back to uni - she was a good student, and had fun learning. This could prefectly well be combined with Slaying.
She can go back to uni but to do so right now would mean leaving all the new Slayers (the new *girls*- because we spent seven seasons learning that a superhero was a person, that strength and skills didn’t suddenly make her inhuman) who she and Willow liberated to the tender mercies of Giles, Andrew and Faith. I don’t see the Buffy who cared so desperately about the potentials wanting to do that and what I love about the comics, as opposed to fic like Three Deep, is that they show her relishing her new responsibilities and the challenges they bring, not going through the motions.
I have no problem with what Spike says until that very last line “so that one of us is living.” That little word so, however, tells us that what follows is Spike’s reason for telling her everything that went before and as so often with Spike it’s a case of the right sentiment for the wrong reason. She has to go on living (has to, she doesn’t get a choice) not for own sake so that she can heal but so that he can live (vicariously) through her. The conversation with Anya just shows how deeply conflicted he is about the whole life issue, he’s telling Anya that he’s proud of his undead status it makes him (and her) superior to the merely alive. It’s similar to the way he sets off to get his soul with, as he admits afterwards, no real conception of what it would do to him. He knows just enough about life to sense that it’s worth yearning after, he has no idea what it really is, no memory of how it truly feels.
no subject
Well it's only during the first few issues that she re-gains some of what she's lost - and then not completely. I chose this icon, because that scene in particular struck me - it is still my favourite out of all we've seen of her so far. She's a little lost and unsure, missing her home and the life she once had. But she's a grown up now, and knows she has to grin and bear it. In that moment she echoes most of the post-Chosen Buffies I've ever read, wherever they may be in the world.
She can go back to uni but to do so right now would mean leaving all the new Slayers
Open University!!! Or, you know, relocate somewhere more central...
as opposed to fic like Three Deep, is that they show her relishing her new responsibilities and the challenges they bring, not going through the motions.
Ah now you've hit on something, because I have BIG problems with Three Deep!Buffy - so much so that her OOCness (and the way she seems to have slipped back to her S7 mindset, which she *moved past*) would normally make me stop reading (sorry any writers who might come across this). However all the other characters are welldone, the plot is deliciously complex, the writing excellent and the worldbuilding quite simply astonishingly rich, so I ignore my one problem and focus on the rest.
She has to go on living (has to, she doesn’t get a choice) not for own sake so that she can heal but so that he can live (vicariously) through her.
No, I don't think that's it. Oh I very much agree that he's doing the right thing for the wrong reasons (what with being soulless etc), and that he quite simply can't bear to lose her again. But I don't think he lives through her, I think his life quite simply isn't worth living without her (see 'Lovers Walk'...).
(And now I have to stop, because I have a LOT of housework to do, and if I continue I'll start talking about fire and I know myself well enough to know that I can go on for *ever*!)