'Spike: Asylum' Meta.

[elisi]

This was supposed to be a quick run-through a la my review of ‘Shadow Puppets’, with a few thoughts re. Spike’s arc (and Beck) at the end. And then... meta ate my head. Again. So... it’s kinda long. And I’m not sure I’m actually saying anything original. But I had to write it, so there you go.

Also it’ll be interesting to see how many people reply... I’m not entirely sure how many people have read ‘Asylum’, but it can’t be more than a handful. Ah well, enjoy! *g*

Many, many spoilers for ‘Spike: Asylum’ - seriously, don’t click the tag if you haven’t read it. To remedy that, just buy it (it’s only a tenner on amazon) and if you hate it you can always flog it on Ebay...

(And yes, there might be mentions of s8...)

So - first some page-by-page squee. Y’know, stuff I loved, dialogue that jumped out at me. This bit’s all about the fun. :)

Random squee.
p3) I love the opening monologue. Sets the scene, draws us in.

p5) It’s funny the things that make a difference - that make you like (or dislike) something. I know that in issue 1 of s8 it was Buffy’s quiet reflection that stood out for me and that I liked - because I recognised *my* post-Chosen Buffy in her. Only it was very much an objective, detached observation. But Asylum... the moment when the private soldiers appear, all ‘hut hut hut’, I felt this jolt of pure joy - ‘OMG it’s Blues Brothers!’ It put a big smile on my face, but also subconsciously made me feel that I could trust this writer. It is funny and smart and sly and I love it. You wanna get under my defences? This is how to do it! (Actually I adore all the pop culture references all through Asylum - they’re not in your face, just there to be enjoyed in case you get them. Just like the show.)

p10) “Ah. Always nice to meet a fan.” I have so much love for this. That small sarcastic throwaway line, that’ll be echoed by Dr Ray later on (p90: “As I said - I’m a fan.”) in the most devastating way. Evil Big Bads are Spike fans... just ouch.

p15) And... enter Angel. Figuratively speaking of course. (Buffy appeared already on p9.) I love how this story takes on Spike’s issues with characters who don’t appear - because it shows beautifully that the issues are (in large part) in his head. Also I love the ruse - it works perfectly!

p16) The posters are *hilarious*. :)

p20) And Spike gets yet another thing showed into his brain! It should be a drinking game or something.

p26) Mah Zinn! Yay! He’s brilliant - esp love this exchange:
“I’m thinking an extra large q-tip would be amazing.”
”Ha ha ha ha! Never lose that sense of humour, my boy! No matter how insanely, uncontrollably tortuous life gets!”

p33) Wiseau! (As I said before, the voice-over is great!) Love all the stickers... *looks at picture* Apparently he ate Satan! :) Also Spike’s blood puts his birth year as 1853. And Spike is utterly spot-on in his ‘f*ck-off’ attitude:
“Because the first thing I do when I join a new gang is kill the blowhard self-important leader. So my boredom and disinterest is win-win, really.”
The Anointed One, anyone? (Sidebar: This made me consider the fact that Angel is the only male that Spike ever defers to. Discuss if you like.)

ETA: p38) I'm not sure women are Spike's Achilles heel, but caring about them the way he does does, 9 times out of 10 leads to trouble... Helping Beck in this scene leads to her impalement, the fight in the bathroom and eventually the almost-surgery. And all because he couldn't stand seeing a girl in pain.

p40) Group therapy! *does the happy dance* Just the idea of Spike in group therapy. Totally cracks me up. (Also nice introduction to Dr Ray on prev. page) Anyway, “He’s a vampire, and that’s OK.” is one of my favourite lines ever. At all. In this world and the next! There should be icons.

p41) Betta George! “A pox on this telepathy.” Aaaaaand - I’d fallen for him! :) Also love the rest of them of course, and Anna’s “It’s a gift sorry Doctor Thilbault, a curse it’s a curse and I want it gone.” Oh and Biv staring at her chest later...

p45) And we get the reveal about Ruby. This is *excellent*, and so is Spike. Will go into details later.

p48) “Piss off slug!” Our favourite vampire goes and is insensitive again... (“Racial slurs” also cracks me up).

p49) “Right. Like that’s even... possible.” Ripping out a vampire’s brow and fangs? Now that really is a scary thought - seriously. *shudders* This is *inspired* and gives Spike something to actually fear. And it freaks me out. Like ‘Damage’ - but worse. (This is what the Willow torture scene in s8 lacked... if you want more on this, just ask.)

p52) “My blood doesn’t exactly rush in the direction of my brain...” (7.20) How much do I love that Spike thinks Anna wants a nooner? Entirely too much. See Angel would a) Figure something was up, or b) Go with Anna and try to calm her down. But Spike, bless him, thinks “Yay! I’m gonna score!” Did I mention how much I adore Lynch’s Spike? And then we get the great big fight w. shirtless Spike. There is no bad.

p69) Lorne! “Aaaaaaah, the devil!” “Aaaaaah, spandex!” Lorne is great.

p72) “This is so embarrassing, I didn’t get you anything.” Another great, great line. Also props for using the word ‘terrarium’ further down. And then... Eeeeeek! *fjghkfdjghsdrgrt!*

p77) I love that Lorne keeps counting. It’s fabulous.

p79) This image might be my favourite out of the whole comic. I could write essays about it.



p84) Love the whole fight and the way we cut away to Spike’s hand, and the punch makes me all kinds of happy and giddy! *cheers* And then - skewered! Ow! Brilliant way to turn our world view upside down - and it comes out of the blue.

p86) Betta George! Nooooooo! *cries* He was awesome! *holds remembrance ceremony*

p93) And all hell has broken loose... Again we get Angel-related thoughts, and they’re bloody spot-on!

p96-97) Spike opens up! And it goes both ways! And Urru actually manages to *draw* a Spike-look. God knows how, but he does.

p100) ZOMG COOL! (Also just love the artwork on these pages. GORGEOUS!)

p102) “I’ve partied with the Boogey Man. We look nothing alike. He’s taller, bit of a limp.” This is such a *perfect* BtVS/AtS line. The sort that inspires great little FitB’s (“I ate a decorator once...”) It’s stuff like this that makes the story feel like my shows.

p107) “After all, I’m a damned champion.” Have I mentioned how much I love that quip? Not ‘Damn Champion’ (Big Damn Heroes...), but ‘Damned Champion’ - vampire with a soul... This ties straight back to ‘Hellbound’ and all sort of other things in the most wonderful way. *happy sigh*

p109) More Angel thoughts - and a resolution. As I said, I’ll get back to all this. But I just had to mention how much I love it! :)

p110) “When you were in solitary and Beck was in the infirmary, I bit Thilbault. Wow, does that feel good to get off my chest.” This is brilliant. It took me completely by surprise the first time (I was in a hurry *g*), and on second read-through it was *so* obvious... Very good though.


Spike’s development.
(with Angel parallels)
So, Spike thoughts. I’ve said it before, but my favourite thing about this story is Spike’s journey - and the more I’ve thought about it, the more pleased I am. Because Spike struggles with all the same issues Angel does, but in a different way.

Let’s backtrack. (Like *way* backtrack. Please bear with me.)

First he gets the soul, and it makes him crazy with guilt (“Angel - he should have warned me!”). It would seem to be the stupidest thing he’s ever done (“They all tell me - go - go to hell.” 7.02) - he’s damned himself.

Then comes 'Never Leave Me' (7.09) and Buffy’s profession of faith in him. (“You faced the monster inside of you - and you fought back!”) He sees the possibility for being *more* - or rather he trusts that Buffy sees it.

‘Get It Done’ (7.15) is another milestone... he needs the monster, the Spike who is dangerous, to be able to fight. And although this is an important step, there is a sense of embracing something bad and dangerous for the sake of a bigger fight. Just like Willow.

In LMPTM (7.17) we see this again - and also Spike is seriously pissed off. He distances himself quite sharply from who he was.

Then comes ‘Hellbound’ (AtS 5.04) and his “I do deserve to go to hell - but not today!” It is an acceptance of what he is - the price he has to pay.

Which again gets echoed - but moreso - in ‘Damage’ (AtS 5.11). I love Damage, love the acceptance of who they are. Actually I love all of AtS S5 for the way it looks at the monsters within, and this is of course the ep where Spike really accepts it. But there is also a deep sense of “What else are we gonna do?” - of the monster being something negative... “But this is important, what's happening here. Fred gave her life for it. The least I can do is give what's left of mine.” (AtS 5.16)

There’s a sense of defeat there, in a very quiet and understated way. Spike isn’t Angel, he doesn’t sit around pondering what he’s doing or wondering about redemption (much). Spike just fights because it’s the right thing to do.

Sooooo... enter Asylum. Spike is fighting the good fight, because it's what he does. Fast forward to the reveal that *he* was the one who killed Ruby. And we’re right back to ‘Damage’ (“What am I supposed to do? Complain?”). He is, when all is said and done, a monster. And he can only fight that so far. He can’t undo his past, he can’t undo who - what - he is. (And where he wasn’t responsible for Dana, he *is* for Ruby.) As Dr Thilbault says: “See you're using it as a way to give up. You think, given your past, there’s no way you can possibly be a hero, so-”

And this is where Beck’s comment is so *perfect* (“Spike - those stories inmates would share to give everyone nightmares? The ones about what would happen if you ever came here? They’d help me sleep better at night.”) and where Spike’s journey parallels Angel’s in the most gorgeous way:

Beck turns the monster into something positive! Her comment shows Spike that embracing the darkness can be a good thing in itself.

It is pretty much *exactly* the same that happens to Angel in 'Not Fade Away':

Hamilton: Let me say this as clearly as I can. You cannot beat me. I am a part of them. The Wolf, Ram, and Hart. Their strength flows through my veins. My blood is filled with their ancient power.
Angel: Can you pick out the one word there you probably shouldn't have said?

Angel struggled for so long with being a vampire - a monster - and then suddenly it became the tool with which he could win the battle. But whereas Angel’s epiphany came from Hamilton - W&H’s representative in the world - the symbol of what he’s been fighting all those years, Spike’s comes from a girl - another victim/monster just like Dru and Buffy and Fred and Dana. “I believe in you, Spike” are still the most powerful words he can hear:

Buffy believed that he could be a good man (NLM) and a champion (Chosen).
Fred believed that he was worth saving.
Beck believed that that the monster could keep her safe.

See for Spike it’s always the personal connection:

FRED: Not easy being a champion. You know that.
SPIKE Really don't.
FRED Come on. You saved the world, sacrificed yourself, closed a hellmouth.
SPIKE Didn't do much, really. I just stood there... let the fire come. Nothin' real heroic about that.
FRED Well, you did save my life.
SPIKE Well, when you say it like that...
(AtS 5.06)

This is what matters to him. That’s the source of his strength. Angel... oh no. Remember ‘Amends’ (3.10)? Buffy pleading with him brought no results. I think the reason is that Angel thinks people (women) are mistaken when they try to see something good in him. They don’t understand what he is, they don’t know what it’s like. But beating an opponent proves his worth - proves that he can change things, even if he can’t change himself... Oh! That’s it, isn’t it? Women give Spike a *reason* to change (because he knows and believes that he can change) - to live up to their expectations, to prove that their faith in him is justified:

First!Dru: And what makes you think you have a choice? What makes you think you will ever be any good at all in this world?
Spike: She does. Because she believes in me.
(7.10)

And now I have to quote the_royal_anna, because she’s said it all already, and better (from her review of Damage):

And this is it: the bleak, endless cycle Angel fights against. He is the victim that dares to be the champion. But is he driven by the blood in his heart or the blood on his hands?

I don't know that Angel acts to prove he's worth something. I think that Angel acts to prove he's worth nothing. He acts to prove that actions are worth something; that even a monster is capable of good acts. [...]

Here's a thought:

"I know that I'm a monster. But you treat me like a man. And that's – "

And that's important. That's enough. That's what will keep you going, keep you believing when guilt threatens to overwhelm you. When all you can see is the blood on your hands, the somebody that can see your heart is all you have to give you a reason to go on. The somebody that believes in you. The somebody that keeps sight of your soul.

Is the monster within, or the monster without? Is it what we are, or how we are treated?

Oh I love this comic for tapping into all of these issues, and for doing it so well.

And now I just have to mention ‘Chosen’... in that episode, Spike’s Champion status hung on him having a soul.

Buffy: And the right person is?
Angel: Someone ensouled, but stronger than human. A champion.

Buffy could have worn it. So could Faith. So could... oh Groo or Drogyn f.ex. Even Cordy before the Jasmine high-jack. All of these (more or less) were simple straight-forward Champion types, without a century of slaughter to their names. It was the soul+power that mattered, not where that power came from.

What Asylum does, is turn that on it’s head - it’s the vampire part that’s the important point. The vicious ‘I’m going to rip your head off if you look at me wrong’ reputation (or ‘look at my cards and I’ll gouge out your eye’ *g*), that made Wiseau and Dr. Ray such a fans.

Did I mention how much I love this story?


Angel issues.
As I said above, another reason this story is so great, is that Spike works through a lot of his Angel issues - without Angel being there! That’s what I call good writing. It’s interesting though, because one person said that it felt like Spike had too many Angel issues... and another that Spike does not have enough in ‘Shadow Puppets’.

Now me? I like what this story does, and think the reason Spike is so relatively calm re. Angel baiting in S:SP is because he worked through a lot of his issues in Asylum. Maybe it could have been done differently, or better - who knows? The point is, this works for me. Yes Spike and Angel dealt with a lot of their issues in S5. But that doesn’t mean that they went away. (And also - the *rivalry* will always be there.) To illustrate, let me for a moment talk about Faith - and Buffy.

Because there are many parallels between Spike and Faith, and also plenty in their relationships with Angel and Buffy respectively - in essence Buffy is to Faith what Angel is to Spike: Faith is always going to be the ‘the second Slayer’, following in Buffy’s footsteps. And there’s plenty of anger, jealousy and resentment:

Faith: What isn't? You know, I come to Sunnydale. I'm the Slayer. I do my job kicking ass better than anyone. What do I hear about everywhere I go? Buffy. So I slay, I behave, I do the good little girl routine. And who's everybody thank? Buffy.
Buffy: It's not my fault.
Faith: Everybody always asks, why can't you be more like Buffy? But did anyone ever ask if you could be more like me?
Angel: I know I didn't.
Faith: You get the Watcher. You get the mom. You get the little Scooby gang. What do I get? Jack squat. This is supposed to be my town!
(3.17)

And oh can’t we easily hear these words in Spike’s mouth, substituting ‘Angel’ for ‘Buffy’? Angel’s the original vampire with a soul, Angel has a group of friends, Angel gets the comfy life as CEO with every luxury at his fingertips...

But, there’s more:

Faith: Do you think you're better than me? Do you? Say it, you think you're better than me.
Buffy: I am. Always have been.
Faith: Um, maybe you didn't notice. Angel's with me.
Buffy: And how did you get him, Faith? Magic? Cast some sort of spell? Cause in the real world, Angel would never touch you and we both know it.
(3.17)

Spike: Take a long look, hero. I'm nothing like you!
Angel: No. You're less. That's why Buffy never really loved you: Because you weren't me.
(AtS 5.08)

I’d never actually put these quotes side by side before, but my god they’re so identical as to be scary. Of course they go off in different directions, since in ‘Enemies’ Faith was still evil, and in ‘Destiny’ Angel was working for the other side, but the issues - oh the issues are the same!

Now Faith and Buffy managed to get along rather well at the end of S7, bonding, joking... with only the occasional burst of violence. They were fighting a common enemy and that pulled them together - as did the fact that they were the only two Slayers and could understand each other like no one else.

But please imagine that Faith goes off on her own post-Chosen. And gets approached by someone wanting her to go undercover in - oh lets say a prison. Faith balks. They counter by saying that they’ve sought her out especially, having heard how she’s saved the world for years etc, and Faith realises that they were after Buffy all along... I can *totally* see her turning round just like Spike and going “Dammit! I’m Faith and I’m just as good as her. Better even, ‘cause I killed Kakistos! And I’ve wrestled an alligator! And I took down Angelus without killing him!” (etc)

Then there is of course the other side to it:

First!Mayor: Deep down, you always wanted Buffy to accept you, to love you even. Why do you think that is?
(7.20)

(Surely I don’t need to point out the Spike/Angel parallels in that?)

Aaaaanyway. Spike goes to the Asylum, in large part to prove that he’s just as good/better than Angel. I find this a perfectly logical reason - buttons were pressed, and Spike got angry and acted on his emotions rather than on logic.

So, then he’s there, trying work out what to do. Going with my Faith parallel I could definitely see her thinking ‘What Would Buffy Do?’ (Look at her in AtS S4, trying to fight Angelus in ‘Salvage’. I’m sure she’s wondering to herself what Buffy would do in her situation.)

Which brings us to this:

“I’ve retreated before. Hell, when I was on the other side of the battle, running away to strike another day was pretty much a weekly event. That wasn’t Angel’s style. He would have told Beck to get to safety and he would kick all manner of ass, vampire or not. But as of late, it’s getting more clear than ever... I’m not Angel. And after seeing Dr Ray and his makeshift army ready to leave, for the first time in decades, I wish I was Angel. Because he’d have the slightest clue how to stop them.”

Now this I love. Because really - it’s not about Angel. It’s about Spike looking at himself and seeing where his strengths and weaknesses lie. Facing up to some harsh truths. Of course he compares himself to Angel - who else is there? (Yes there’s Buffy, but I don’t think that Spike would ever *compare* himself to Buffy. Try to do what she’d do yes. But not ever think he could be her.)

Anyway, stuff happens and we end with this:

“This isn’t what Angel would have done. He would have gone down fighting. But, truth be told... I’m not Angel. And you know what? That’s OK.”

It in the most bizarre way reminds me of the end of ‘Lovers Walk’ - ‘I did it my way.’ There’s introspection and then a realisation that ‘I’m happy - content - being me.’

And - as I was saying above - the ‘me’ he is happy with incorporates all of him with much more acceptance than before. It is a beautiful arc and I can’t fault it. Other people probably can - but it works for me.


Beck.
‘Beck’ is a Norse word for a small brook. It’s still in use today in Yorkshire. (And in Danish: bæk). This - obviously - made me think of River (“My turn!”). Now I don’t think this is why Beck was given the name she was (Lynch would have mentioned it I’m sure), but I thought I’d point it out, because I like stuff like that. And for a fire-elemental to have a name that means water is... interesting. Anyway, that’s as far as I’ve got. Feel free to play.

It has been pointed out to me that Beck is a total Mary-Sue. This had not occurred to me previously, but yes, I can see that. However - I don’t care. Because she’s not there to be awesome in her own right, she’s there to play off Spike.

See the character she reminds me of the most is Dana, because the purpose of Beck to be the embodiment of the ‘Innocent Victim’/’Monster’ conundrum that is at the heart of Spike’s dilemma. Unlike Dana of course she’s not beyond ‘saving’ - or rather, although she has a monster within her, she has not been driven insane by her experiences. She can change and move forward. She can’t undo the past, but she can change herself - change her response, her outlook. Which of course again - see Spike. It is the thing of reaching out - of risking opening up - and then when it happens, to be able to connect and support each other.

Going back to ‘Damage’ and Dana, Spike went after her to help her - because he knew Slayers, and he knew insanity. He thought he had a point of connection. But then she brought up his past... things he’d rather not acknowledge as a part of him still (“She was a Slayer, I was a vampire...”), forcing him to deal with it:

Dana: You killed them both.
Spike: That and worse. But I was never here.
Dana: Doesn’t matter.

We see in Asylum how when the chips are down Spike lays this on the table - this is who I was, this is who I am. And then we get the connection. (See? Group therapy - it works!)

The great thing about this is, that the more I think about it the better it becomes. That said, I really wish we’d been given more of Beck’s story - but working with what we have there’s still plenty to sink my teeth into:

I think the fact that she was only a child when she killed her family is very significant. It was an accident. And we can speculate as to the circumstances... did she think her new powers were fun? Did she try to help and just get it horribly wrong? We don’t know - but the point is that unsouled vampires can be seen as childish creatures (I’ve explored this in-depth elsewhere). Spike killed Ruby for fun. He killed his mother in a misguided attempt to help her. In essence, without his soul he could not control his demon, just like Beck as a child could not control her powers. Logically neither should be held accountable for what they did then, but this isn’t about logic. It’s about guilt, and fear of what they’re capable of. We don’t find out *why* Beck is in Mosaic, but I’ll bet ff.net’s annual output that her reasons matched Spike’s perfectly:

“At least here I’m locked up... away from the outside world... where no one will get hurt because of me again.”

So, yeah, I really like Beck. That she’s pretty and is the one who saves the day is not a problem at all - and goes to show that Spike is more Buffy-like than Angel-like. Because Angel has an innate need to be the hero, to be the one saving the day. But Buffy is happy to use anything and anyone to win the battle. Look at ‘Graduation Day’ - shouldn’t we be hailing Cordy, Wesley, Jonathan and Larry for saving the day? After all they were the ones we saw stripping the library and filling it with explosives. Buffy just thought of it and did a little bit of running... ;) Or to quote Asylum again:

“Eventually we arrive at Primm, prepared for another fight. Or at least prepared for another hanging back while Beck sets everything on fire.”

Spike can be the hero. He can also easily stand back and let someone else do the job:

“Angel would have told Beck to get to safety and he would kick all manner of ass, vampire or not. [...] But, truth be told... I’m not Angel. And you know what? That’s OK.”

Comments

[ruuger]

So you really weren't kidding when you said that your review ended up a bit long ;)

Anyway, very interesting read, alas, I don't have time for detailed comments right now. But since you asked:

This made me consider the fact that Angel is the only male that Spike ever defers to. Discuss if you like.

I have a theory that the world according to Spike is based on a hierarchy that goes something like this:


Women Spike likes
Spike
Women Spike doesn't like
Men
Xander

In this hierarchy Angel is a helium balloon tied to the lowest rung of the ladder and so how high he is depends on where the wind is blowing ;)

Also, have you read Brian Lynch's blog at MySpace (his name is brianisfairlyawesome, IIRC)? Back when Asylum came out, he did a series of posts about the hidden jokes and references in the comic.

[elisi]

So you really weren't kidding when you said that your review ended up a bit long ;)
It's around 4000 words...

I have a theory that the world according to Spike is based on a hierarchy that goes something like this
Bwah! That's hysterical and really incredibly accurate! And Angel is rather full of hot air... *g*

he did a series of posts about the hidden jokes and references in the comic.
They're all at the back of the book. Wonderful reading. :)

[diachrony.livejournal.com]

I love your hierarchy! ... I'm *sure* I've read it somewhere before (maybe another comment of yours?) years ago, but can't remember where or when. But the part about Angel being a helium balloon is new to me.

Sounds right. :-]

[mrs-underhill.livejournal.com]

Great review! I loved "Asylum" too, and it's totally worthy of the lengthy meta. You could tell why Joss was imressed with it.

Lots of great points here, and the thing about "tapping into the vamp", using your inner monster when needed - or yes, and thanks for pointing this out! Harks back to both Get It Done and NFA.
I can't reply in more detail now, but I'll try later.
Would it be OK to post this link on IDW board, for other folks and Brian to see it? I'm sure Brian'll be thrilled. :)

[elisi]

Great review! I loved "Asylum" too, and it's totally worthy of the lengthy meta.
Thank you! And the meta almost feels like it doesn't belong to me - it just pops up all by itself when I read/watch something really good!

and thanks for pointing this out! Harks back to both Get It Done and NFA.
It's all connected... I love it when that happens. (Character exploration/development is my favourite thing of all!)

I can't reply in more detail now, but I'll try later.
Looking forward to it! And I saw your comments on stormwreath's 'Shadow Puppets' review and I meant to say how much agreed. (I was going to say almost the same as you, but then time ran away from me.)

Would it be OK to post this link on IDW board, for other folks and Brian to see it? I'm sure Brian'll be thrilled. :)
I be honoured! :)

[shapinglight]

Saw you'd posted your meta just as I'm about to leave work. Will hopefully be able to read it later and will comment then.

[elisi]

Know the feeling. And I hope you'll like it once you find the time. :)

[diachrony.livejournal.com]

I love this meta! It didn't seem that long while I was reading it.

I'm thrilled you pointed out the comparisons between Spike's Angel issues & Faith's Buffy issues. I hadn't thought of that, but of course! ... although I hope further Spike comics will tone the Angel issues thing down further, 'cause I have a fairly low tolerance for it. It would annoy me as well if they did the same thing with Faith. I want to see the characters progress, as they did on the show, rather than remain static or (worse) regress.

It's not that those sensitive areas shouldn't exist or shouldn't be touched on at all ... it's not realistic for them to vanish completely. It's really all down to how they're handled by the writer. I also feel whatever time they're given in a comic, by nature of the medium (whatever makes it to the page is *important*) gives them weight, so I worry about this overshadowing everything else ...

I think you and shapinglight are right that it wasn't overdone in Asylum and probably stood out to me more than warranted since I read the story in one go and since I'm feeling a bit hyperconcerned on that topic.

(I dread reading S8, OMG!!)

Also ... "Asylum" was such a good story. You remind me how many times I was actually taken by surprise by events that I didn't see coming ~ but that made perfect sense. It really was well done, and the dialogue was wonderful. I know on re-reading I'll notice things I missed the first time (I haven't yet read the author's notes in the back.

Lynch & Urru did really, really well. I'm looking forward to the completed Shadow Puppets!

[elisi]

I love this meta! It didn't seem that long while I was reading it.
Aw, thanks! On both counts. :)

I want to see the characters progress, as they did on the show, rather than remain static or (worse) regress.
Oh absolutely. Not that I couldn't watch/read Spike & Angel all day, but there definitely has to be progression. (Which is why I love S5 of AtS so very much. At the beginning we knew A & S couldn't stand each other. At the end we knew that they cared deeply for each other - even if they'd never admit it out loud!)

I worry about this overshadowing everything else ...
It'll be interesting to see where they go in S6, certainly. *crosses fingers*

probably stood out to me more than warranted since I read the story in one go and since I'm feeling a bit hyperconcerned on that topic.
Things that bother one will always stand out. Personally I just lapped it up! ;)

I dread reading S8, OMG!!
S8 is very, very, very different. The Spike comics are one story, following one character, whereas S8 tries to be like the TV show, following multiple characters and storylines.

Also ... "Asylum" was such a good story.
Oh yes. And yes to all your other points. And the author's notes are *great* - as is looking closely at the artwork. There are *so* many details. :)

I'm looking forward to the completed Shadow Puppets!
Judging from issue 1 it is going to be great. Very different, but great. :)

[stormwreath.livejournal.com]

Good review! The sort that gets people wanting to re-read and re-assess things. :) I didn't think 'Asylum' was perfect, but it's certainly the best of the 'Spike' comics I've read so far (including 'Shadow Puppets', at least to date - though did you notice two of the Smile Time puppets make a cameo in 'Asylum'?) and reading meta about the significant bits never hurts.

Mind you, something you didn't mention that almost spoiled my enjoyment of the whole story was the treatment inflicted on Carol the wiccan secretary; I just felt too bad for what was happening to her to really appreciate the rest of the plot at first. And Spike couldn't save her in the end. :(

Some specifics:

Oh and Biv staring at her chest later...
The scary thing here is that if men could turn invisible in real life, this probably is how many of us would use that power... :)

And we get the reveal about Ruby. This is *excellent*
I have to admit I didn't see it coming. And I immediately saw the parallel to Dana when it did.

And it freaks me out. Like ‘Damage’ - but worse. (This is what the Willow torture scene in s8 lacked
It just seemed a faintly bizarre idea to me, whereas someone sticking a scalpel through your eye into your brain is brutally real. (Probably too real, to be fair - the ick factor could make people stop reading, whereas carving off a vampire's forehead is too fantastical to be scary. At least, unless the human-face vampire would also have no forehead and look like Warren).

Lorne is great
See, he worked perfectly for me here, which is why I disliked the very different character portrayal in 'Shadow Puppets'. Still, perhaps he's hiding a big secret there.

“I’ve partied with the Boogey Man. We look nothing alike. He’s taller, bit of a limp.” This is such a *perfect* BtVS/AtS line.
To be fair, it's a perfect Spike line. If you want perfect Buffy, Xander, Willow or Dawn lines you have to look elsewhere. :)

And this is where Beck’s comment is so *perfect* (“Spike - those stories inmates would share to give everyone nightmares? The ones about what would happen if you ever came here? They’d help me sleep better at night.”)
That's actually the one line above all that made me throw my hands up in despair, because Beck's insight and understanding of Spike is so perfect and true that she's not afraid of him at all. Instead she alone can see him as the true Champion and protector he is, and so it's thanks to her pure love that he is able to help her escape so she can save everyone in the final act... *Ahem* Sorry. I've clearly got issues here. :) It doesn't detract from your point about Spike embracing his true self, though, which is a good one.

Though Beck's tale could be read another way - that she was so despairing of her life, and so hated everything around and about herself, that the thought of somebody like Spike coming and killing everybody (including her?) was actually a comfort. But I don't know if Lynch intended her story to get so dark.

Your comparison of Angel and Spike's differing motivations was excellent, BTW.

(To be continued)

[elisi]

Good review! The sort that gets people wanting to re-read and re-assess things. :)
Yay! What with the thing having eaten my brain for like a month, it's nice to share the infection... ;)

I didn't think 'Asylum' was perfect
Nothing's perfect (sadly), but get enough things right and the rest won't matter.

the treatment inflicted on Carol the wiccan secretary;
Oh poor Carol. But then her fate helped hammer home how serious the situation was - and how you can never save everyone. Incidentally - whose victim was she? Wiseau's of course. But it was Dr Ray who ordered her into his cell. And she wouldn't be back at Mosaic if it wasn't for Spike being a jackass. And he wouldn't have been there if it wasn't for the Monaghan's... who of course wouldn't have pursued him if it wasn't for Ruby's fate. So... in a very, very roundabout way she was also Spike's victim.

if men could turn invisible in real life, this probably is how many of us would use that power... :)
As they say: It's funny because it's true.

It just seemed a faintly bizarre idea to me, whereas someone sticking a scalpel through your eye into your brain is brutally real.
This might get long... the reason it worked so well for me, was because it was a threat *specifically* for Spike. (Like Gnarl in STSP for Willow.) Whether it's realistic is beside the point - in this 'verse it is. And the surgery is not just mutilation, but also castration. And Spike *fears* it. That is the main point. There is a moment in TLWH - the "Are you bored now?" where Willow is scared. But then she escapes to some higher plane and apparently not even death appears to bother her - 'cause her BFF is comin' to save her, la la la. Spike is on his own (and Beck setting things on fire when tortured does not exactly help) - there's only him.

Having looked over the relevant pages in TLWH there is a *horrible* picture of Buffy pulling a scalpel or something out of Willow's head, so it's not the ick factor that's lacking... it's the next moment that's the let-down, with Willow's bright happy smile. (Contrast again with STSP, please. I don't want her to be in pain, but I want her to be affected). Compare to Asylum:

Dr Ray: "Wow. He's pretty much dead, huh? And you're fine. And she's fine."
Spike: "Do we look fine?"
Dr Ray: "Well, no. But your heads are still firmly attached to your bodies, that's pretty surprising."

It's about empathy - about caring about the character.

(And I'll have to finish this later, since husband dearest needs the computer!)

[elisi]

What was I saying... um Willow. Basically - if she's not worried about her fate, why should I be?

Still, perhaps he's hiding a big secret there.
Perhaps??? (To coin a popular Sunnydale phrase: Well - duh! *g*) He's assertive! He *insists* on coming along. And I really, really can't work out why. It's great! :)

To be fair, it's a perfect Spike line.
Obviouxly! What I meant was that it gives us information about the 'verse we wouldn't otherwise have. A la 'Everyone knows leprechauns aren't real' (what's-his-face in 'Unleashed') or 'Santa doesn't exactly bring *presents*' (Anya line, I can't remember which ep. or exact wording.)

because Beck's insight and understanding of Spike is so perfect and true that she's not afraid of him at all.
Um... so far he's protected her at every turn. Her assesment isn't just built on hear-say when she says that line, it comes from personal experience. And as for *before* she met him, then there's probably a good portion of 'my enemy's enemy' in how she thought about him.

so it's thanks to her pure love that he is able to help her escape so she can save everyone in the final act... *Ahem* Sorry. I've clearly got issues here. :)
Her pure *what*? Um, I mean, yes, clearly you have issues. It's not about love, it's about faith. (I've talked about this in relation to the differences between S/B and B/A - Buffy *loves* Angel, but she cannot help him. Love doesn't solve anything.) He breaks his restrainst because she's being tortured (damsel in distress), but then turns the whole thing on its head by pointing out that she's actually far stronger than him ("Willow - you do know you're the strongest person here, right?").

Your comparison of Angel and Spike's differing motivations was excellent, BTW.
I owe most of that to Anna (see the review of Damage that I linked to!).

[stormwreath.livejournal.com]

(Previously, on 'Spike:Asylum'...)

I can *totally* see her turning round just like Spike and going “Dammit! I’m Faith and I’m just as good as her.
Oh yes. Although there's a difference - while Spike's approach to an awkward situation is to jump headlong into it, I think post-redemption Faith's more the type to back away, use the mistaken identity as an excuse to get angry and tell them to go away. ("Woah. Hell no. You got the wrong Slayer. You want Miss Perfect and her little Slaygang, not me. I can't help you.") Then she'd go and sit in her motel room and get angry at herself for not being as heroic as she thinks Buffy would be, and so then she'd turn up and do the job anyway with a air of defiant pride.

Hell, when I was on the other side of the battle, running away to strike another day was pretty much a weekly event.
At least Lynch's characterisation of Spike is consistent... but I've never really seen this as an essential part of Spike's character specifically. No more than any other evil being on the show (even Angel) who wanted to appear for more than a single episode learned to run away from Buffy at the end of Act 4. :)

‘Beck’ is a Norse word for a small brook.
Heh. I knew that (being born in Yorkshire and all), but never made the connection. I was actually thinking of Christophe (and possibly Jeff) Beck.

See the character she reminds me of the most is Dana
I thought the more obvious comparison was Gwen - even down to the fact that as a small child, Gwen accidentally killed someone using her powers - although Gwen's adjusted in a way that Beck, at the start of the story, hasn't. (But by the end?) Beck is withdrawn and unhappy, but she's not delusional or actively trying to kill people to take away the pain.

Spike can be the hero. He can also easily stand back and let someone else do the job.
I do agree with you: 'Asylum' has character development, advances the plot and introduces interesting new characters.
It could almost be canon. :)

[elisi]

I love your take on post-Chosen Faith. Rings very true. :)

but I've never really seen this as an essential part of Spike's character specifically.
Oh no. Lynch says that it's pretty much a shout-out to when he was on Buffy. I don't think it's a character trait, it's just that Spike is a very good judge of situations and when to call it quits. Of course the flipside to that he'll often seek out battles that are pretty impossible ("What's a Slayer?"). He's a complex guy. :)

but never made the connection
It only came to me as I was writing. I wonder if it was deliberate.

although Gwen's adjusted in a way that Beck, at the start of the story, hasn't. (But by the end?)
I think we've talked about this before, and yes, Gwen is definitely a good example of someone who manages to live with and use her powers. But Spike never met her, so from his POV Dana is the best example.

I do agree with you: 'Asylum' has character development, advances the plot and introduces interesting new characters.
Thank you! :) And I agree that TLWH introduces an interesting concept and quite probably a great story.

It could almost be canon. :)
Heh. Which reminds me that I need to finish off the ficlets I wrote... (canon inspires fic... *g*)

[stormwreath.livejournal.com]

Just a quickie to add that my own favourite random squee was Lorne singing the theme tune to 'Firefly' in his nightclub. :)

[elisi]

Bother! Was going to mention that. Ah well, 'twas great. :)

[shapinglight]

Wonderful review of what I still think is far and away the best of all these post-the end of the show comics.

I love the Spike/Faith Angel/Buffy parallels. I'd never thought of that before but now you say it, it's quite obvious really.

And I love Spike's interaction with the therapy group. It's priceless. They're such a great bunch of supporting characters and very much in the AtS mold, in that they're all demons (well , Dr Thibault starts off human but by the end, he's one of them in every way) and therefore one supposes they don't have souls and are morally ambiguous at best but they're just so very likeable.

[elisi]

Wonderful review
Thank you. :)

I'd never thought of that before but now you say it, it's quite obvious really.
I knew there were Spike/Faith parallels, but a lot of it suddenly popped up when I looked. (Although of course there are also differences...)

And I love Spike's interaction with the therapy group. It's priceless.
*nods a lot* I think this is where a comic is a better format than fic - introducing that many OCs would be very difficult without the visual medium.

[aycheb.livejournal.com]

Few comments based on seeing bits and pieces, I’m nit picking because overall it does seem to be a superior Spike comic (but not a patch on TLWH {g})

Ripping out a vampire’s brow and fangs? This is what the Willow torture scene in s8 lacked..
Joss has very strong views on the fictional fetishisation of torturing female characters, it would be a little hypocritical for him to have gone into such slavering detail of what Warren had planned for Willow.

Beck turns the monster into something positive! Her comment shows Spike that embracing the darkness can be a good thing in itself.
I think here the comic and the show part company philosophically. Accepting your darkness exits, yes. Understanding where it comes from, yes. Exploiting it on the rare occasions when it’s called for, yes. But embracing it, essentially whitewashing it by implying it was mostly directed against other equally powerful demons, no.

Because there are many parallels between Spike and Faith, and also plenty in their relationships with Angel and Buffy respectively - in essence Buffy is to Faith what Angel is to Spike:
This is the problem I have with Lynch’s treatment of the Spike/Angel dynamic. I don’t Spike is anything like as obsessed with not being Angel as S3/4 Faith was with not being Buffy. Buffy really was the do-goody one in Faith’s eyes whereas Spike knew Angel as the bastard whose influence corrupted him in the first place. I also find the idea of Spike believing he was the one always thinking discretion the better part of valour just plain weird. Even in Damage it’s Spike who’s rushing off to find Dana, Angel who’s hanging back finessing his resources.

Faith: Do you think you're better than me? Do you? Say it, you think you're better than me.
Buffy: I am. Always have been.
Faith: Um, maybe you didn't notice. Angel's with me.
Buffy: And how did you get him, Faith? Magic? Cast some sort of spell? Cause in the real world, Angel would never touch you and we both know it.
(3.17)

Spike: Take a long look, hero. I'm nothing like you!
Angel: No. You're less. That's why Buffy never really loved you: Because you weren't me.
(AtS 5.08)

Faith isn’t fighting with Buffy over Angel she’s using Angel to make Buffy notice *her.* It’s more like Spike bringing the goth girl to the wedding and she gets her bluff called just as he did. Angel and Spike, however, really are fighting over Buffy in that sweet way boys do.

[elisi]

(but not a patch on TLWH {g})
Apples and melons! :) Asylum is a *great* apple, TLWH is a melon that (admitttedly) looks good, but I think parts of it are flawed.

it would be a little hypocritical for him to have gone into such slavering detail of what Warren had planned for Willow.
Oh no, that wasn't my point at all. What I meant is that Willow isn't scared (except for one tiny moment). And if she's not bothered about being lobotomised, why should I be?

But embracing it, essentially whitewashing it by implying it was mostly directed against other equally powerful demons, no.)
Oh no. Heck Spike makes a point of telling his new friends exactly what he was before the soul (think 'Do you want to know what I did to girls Dawn's age', but with sincerity rather than baiting.) The soul is definitely an intergral part of the whole thing... going back to my 'Chosen' example, there the thing hung on the soul - *anyone* with superhuman powers could have worn it, as long as they had a soul. Like say Cordy. Now imagine Cordy in Asylum... not quite the same. (It's very early, so I hope that makes sense.)

This is the problem I have with Lynch’s treatment of the Spike/Angel dynamic.
I'm not sure we've seen the dynamic play out yet. Here we just see Spike, and his *idea* of Angel. If Angel had been there, he might have surprised Spike, you never know.

don’t Spike is anything like as obsessed with not being Angel as S3/4 Faith was with not being Buffy.
Oh of course there's vast, vast differences - esp. the fact that Spike *is* morally superior to Angel. But nevertheless there is a clear big brother/little brother dynamic there.

I also find the idea of Spike believing he was the one always thinking discretion the better part of valour just plain weird.
That... wasn't really my point. What I meant was that Angel has a need to be the one saving the day and calling the shots. Spike will run off on a whim, Spike tries to make personal connections, but Spike has no problem letting someone else be the hero (as long as it's not Angel). Look at... oh 'Normal Again' when Spike gives Buffy the ultimatum - 'be with me, or be with them. Just be happy.' The decision is up to Buffy. Whereas in 'The Prom' Angel *makes* decisions for her: 'You *will* be happier without me. The end.' Or to look at 'Damage' Angel arrives with a large back-up team so that he *will* catch Dana.

Angel and Spike, however, really are fighting over Buffy in that sweet way boys do.
Of course... although I think there's more to it. Fighting over Angel's affections is one-upmanship. 'Angel might like you, but Angelus wants me!' Spike and Angel use Buffy's love/desire the same way... (Buffy might love you, but it's me she slept with!) They fight over Buffy just as they fight over Dru and the Cup... she becomes a symbol, pretty much. The fight would have been pretty identical if she'd never been mentioned - it's not about her, it's about *them*.

[2maggie2.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the great meta. I look forward to re-reading the whole thing with more leisure.

I loved Asylum for many of the reasons you give, but I have one major concern that takes off from your discussion of Spike's Angel issues. I agree that Spike's Angel issues are presented as parallel to Faith's Buffy issues. My concern is that they should not be shown as parallel. The crucial difference being that Buffy is (with some reservations) a worthy role model where Angel is not. We could go into the deeply grey if not black quality of Angel's actions in S4 and especially S5. But perhaps it's easiest to note that Angel's arc as a hero is permanently limited by the fact that Angelus, who is definitely a part of Angel, will never be on board with the program. The fact that Spike sought the soul means that he has a shot of a type of integration with himself that is simply impossible for Angel.

So for me, the interesting Spike/Angel story would be the one where Spike realizes that he shouldn't be trying to "live up" to Angel's standards, but rather that Angel can't set the standards for Spike because Angel has no chance of becoming the kind of true champion that Spike could become. Can Spike's drive to realize his potential overcome his present inability to see that Angel's approval is not some kind of gold standard? That's the dramatic tension I'm interested in seeing explored.

Anyway, there's not that sort of dynamic in place between Buffy and Faith. Buffy's not perfect, but she's not ontologically limited in what she can be.

My fear about Lynch is that he sees Angel through rose-colored glasses, and thus misses Angel's inherent limitations. Limitations which Spike does not, in principle, share. As for the rest, I share your squee!

[elisi]

Thanks for the great meta.
Thank you! And I've had my copy for around a month, so I've been reading and re-reading, having all these thoughts going in cirlces for quite a while.

My concern is that they should not be shown as parallel.
Ah that is a good point! For obvious reasons I only pointed out where the relationships overlapped (and they do - in the way that Spike is forever following in Angel's footsteps). But yes, Spike is definitely morally superior to Angel (something he does comment on rather a lot in S5. *g*)

Can Spike's drive to realize his potential overcome his present inability to see that Angel's approval is not some kind of gold standard? That's the dramatic tension I'm interested in seeing explored.
Hmmmmm. I think Spike *does* get Angel's approval in S5 - f.ex. in AHitW Drogyn says that bringing Illyria back will require a champion, and Angel without hesitation replies that there's two of them right there. Actually the Spike/Angel dynamic (for me) is best expressed in two different scenes: the one at the end of 'Damage' ("She's an innocent victim." "So were we - once upon a time.") and the "I've saved the world more than you!" in TGiQ.

Angel has no chance of becoming the kind of true champion that Spike could become
Angel always wants impossible things... and Angel limits himself. (Sorry, this topic is far too complex to answer in a comment. But go read the review of Damage that I linked to. It says a lot of what I want to say.)

My fear about Lynch is that he sees Angel through rose-colored glasses, and thus misses Angel's inherent limitations.
Well we haven't seen what Lynch thinks of Angel yet. We've seen his Spike's perception, which is a different thing altogether (are you reading tkp's Man's Best Friend? It illustrates this point *perfectly*). Also the joy of Angel is all his flaws - I doubt anyone could miss that.

And let the squee continue. :)

[stormwreath.livejournal.com]

I've just read the IDW board's threads on Asylum and Shadow Puppets, and BL's comments on a possible Spike/Beck pairing caught my eye.

Interestingly, he doesn't think of them that way, because in his eyes Beck is too young for Spike. It's more of a older brother-little sister thing, or even a Spike-Dawn thing (but not a Spike/Dawn thing, I hasten to add). Now that shows one of the comics' flaws for me, since I hadn't really got that impression of her age - I knew she was young, but not that young. If it had been on TV and they'd cast a 17-year old actress in the Beck role, it would have been much more obvious. So now I have to shift my paradigm and re-read Beck's scenes with this new perspective on her age. :)

It's a shame, though, because if they're writing a new canonical season 6 to move the story forward, I'd hate to see Spike mooching around pining for Buffy all year with no resolution. Give him a new, original character to fall in love with. Beck would have been perfect for him - hey, she even killed her own mother, just like Spike did...

[stormwreath.livejournal.com]

ETA - if Beck really is 17 (that's just an informed guess) it's one more thing she has in common with River! :)

[http://users.livejournal.com/_sharvie_/]

This essay was made of awesome! I hadn't thought of the parallels between the Angel&Spike relationship in comparison to the Buffy&Faith one, but now that you've said it, it's so obvious. *face palm*

I also loved how you highlighted the point to Asylum, about embracing the vamp. So much of Buffy was 'bad vamp, no biscuit'. We got a little taste of the idea of embracing the vamp in Get It Done, but it was overshadowed by the rest of the ep. In the comic medium, as IDW has been doing it, giving Spike his own venue, really allowed them to explore that on every page....which considering the mediums limitations is really boggling at how well they pulled it off.

I just read the TPB the other day and missed a few key moments in the first read through that I'll need to rectify my second time around.

Again, wonderful essay.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_sharvie_/]

Oo, I forgot to mention how revealing it is that in this post over half of the icons used are images from the comics.

Also, I mentioned "the point" to Asylum, but of course there are several points. I think my favorite was Spike just accepting Spike. *bg*