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For the Spuffy fen...
‘Shadow Puppets’ issue 1 gives us what four issues of s8 haven’t.
Spike is weighing the options for and against going to Japan and taking out the new Smile Time puppets:
See? One line: ‘What if there’s an impromptu reunion with the Slayer while I’m away?’
It doesn’t stop him from going. I doubt she’ll be mentioned *at all* in the story to come. I *expect* Spike to hit on every hot-looking girl he comes across (and sleep with them if he can). But - we know that he thinks about Buffy. He might not imagine that he can actually ever have a future with her, and he might not ever try to look her up, but he does dream. She’s a part of his world, of his hopes for the future, whether those hopes become reality or not.
And none of this in any way compares to Buffy’s threesome fantasy. *That* was about sex - and heck, she had fantasies about sex with Spike before she slept with him. It tells us nothing about what she thinks or feels for either of the vampires in question, beyond the fact that she’d like to sleep with them again (and that she’s horny. That she loves them I’m taken as understood). Does she miss Spike? Mourn him? Does she even know he’s alive? Does she ponder a reunion, even if she’d not actually seek one out? We don’t know.
One line. One line is all it’d take. I don’t need a resolution, I don’t need a meeting or buckets of tears. Actually I'd really dislike buckets of tears. All I want is an acknowledgement that Spike matters(/mattered) to Buffy.
And what have I got? Buffy misses Teh Sex. *sigh* I much, much prefer the Buffy who’s dating The Immortal. At least she's getting some.
Spike is weighing the options for and against going to Japan and taking out the new Smile Time puppets:
See? One line: ‘What if there’s an impromptu reunion with the Slayer while I’m away?’
It doesn’t stop him from going. I doubt she’ll be mentioned *at all* in the story to come. I *expect* Spike to hit on every hot-looking girl he comes across (and sleep with them if he can). But - we know that he thinks about Buffy. He might not imagine that he can actually ever have a future with her, and he might not ever try to look her up, but he does dream. She’s a part of his world, of his hopes for the future, whether those hopes become reality or not.
And none of this in any way compares to Buffy’s threesome fantasy. *That* was about sex - and heck, she had fantasies about sex with Spike before she slept with him. It tells us nothing about what she thinks or feels for either of the vampires in question, beyond the fact that she’d like to sleep with them again (and that she’s horny. That she loves them I’m taken as understood). Does she miss Spike? Mourn him? Does she even know he’s alive? Does she ponder a reunion, even if she’d not actually seek one out? We don’t know.
One line. One line is all it’d take. I don’t need a resolution, I don’t need a meeting or buckets of tears. Actually I'd really dislike buckets of tears. All I want is an acknowledgement that Spike matters(/mattered) to Buffy.
And what have I got? Buffy misses Teh Sex. *sigh* I much, much prefer the Buffy who’s dating The Immortal. At least she's getting some.
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I’ve read those complaints, and believe all were addressed in issue 4.
Well, what we have there is just a difference in interpretation. Buffy flashing her muscles for a few panels is a far cry from the quick-witted, inventive hero we saw before.
Since the comics do show her having a good relationships with Willow and Xander and successful in her chosen profession I don’t think it’s unwarranted to wonder why there’s more outrage on her behalf than on Spike’s when all both seem to lack is romance.
Well, Willow and Xander really don't have anything to do with it (yay! Buffy's friends with her old friends, all's forgotten!). Spike has never been big with 'friends' and AFAIR, never expressed that he was feeling bereft from not having them. The Spike in this comic is still (presumably) hung up on Buffy (which is why the mention is important). We don't see anything like that so far in S8 from Buffy, although she's wanting. A lot, evidently.
The Buffy we're left with in Chosen makes her decision that she's going to live life and 'bake', this is something Spike never hinted at wanting to do. I just don't agree that baking entails being shut off in an isolated castle with your old buddies. It's new people, new experiences and generally being involved in a world that will expose core issues that you have to evaluate. It's not about her dating or being romantically involved, although that would be a part of it, it's about participating in life, which is what made the character in the past so tangible. That's what I meant by 'you can't bake if you're not in the oven'.
Spike has always wanted to be a hero (for evil or good), although he'd never admit it. In his comics, they have him as a doing good deeds and generally questioning his own motives for doing them. That's some thing you generally expect given what we've seen of him.
I really don't think the issue is their gender, but their previously patterned behavior and attitudes.
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But she didn’t have anyone who understood what it was to be a Slayer. “They haven't been through what I've been through. They're not the slayer. I am.“ I always understood a big part of the activation metaphor was her realizing that other people could not only help her, some could be her – she really wasn’t alone.
Buffy flashing her muscles for a few panels is a far cry from the quick-witted, inventive hero we saw before.
Muscles working together with another Slayer as an equal and muscles with a plan. Use the wounded soldiers as bargaining chips. Use the memory of Amy’s childhood trauma against her. And also instantly recognise the configuration of the corpse from her dreamspace and that XXX=30 in Roman to find Ethan.
We don't see anything like that so far in S8 from Buffy, although she's wanting.
Well possibly her mother’s loss still means more to her than Spike’s. And she’s not shut off in a castle with her buddies but with 50 other Slayers from completely different backgrounds and experiences. Joss has been avoiding thrusting her relationships with them down our throats from the beginning but they’re clearly there and the one-off story for August promises to reveal much more.
Spikes’ comics still have him resolutely refusing to make contact with Buffy just as AtS S5 did and mostly for contractual reasons. I guess that’s been going on long enough that people take it for granted and hence don’t complain.
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She had no one to understand what it was like the be THE Slayer. The one with the burden and responsibility. Does she have that here? Is there anyone around for her to talk to about her fears that she sits with given her dream? She's still alone, just surrounded by more people.
Use the memory of Amy’s childhood trauma against her. And also instantly recognise the configuration of the corpse from her dreamspace and that XXX=30 in Roman to find Ethan.
All of which, of course, were 'splainy'd' by Ethan. I'll give you the soldiers in the group-planned mission, though I'd hardly call that inventive thinking.
Well possibly her mother’s loss still means more to her than Spike’s.
Oh, that's just a ridiculous parallel. No one in their right mind would make the comparison between Spike and Joyce and I do hope you were being wry. Nonetheless, it is off the point I was making. The comment can be taken in the Spike comic that he's still hung up on her, therefore he probably wouldn't be actively looking for a new relationship. Spike isn't mentioned at all, so we're not given the idea that a former relationship is what's keeping her from starting a new one, one that she obviously wants if only in the physical sense.
And she’s not shut off in a castle with her buddies but with 50 other Slayers from completely different backgrounds and experiences.
Who said she didn't have relationships with them? From what we garner from Buffy in the first 4 issues, she has no one to really talk to that would understand her fears and follies. That doesn't indicate that she had a close, personal, pour your heart out type friendship with any of the slayers. She cares for them, had adventures and so forth, but she's still feels alone, isolated and disconnected. If she had such a relationship, well, we'd have at least seen a direct mention of some kind, wouldn't you think? I'd hardly call, "I wish XXXX were back from XXXX" said in passing as thrusting it down our throats. There's nothing I've seen that shows she has a good connection outside of the core Scoobs any more than she did in school surrounded by hundreds of students. If there's time for shipper baiting, there's time to add hints that move the story forward within the text rather taking the info from external mentions of one-offs.
Spikes’ comics still have him resolutely refusing to make contact with Buffy just as AtS S5 did and mostly for contractual reasons. I guess that’s been going on long enough that people take it for granted and hence don’t complain.
Oh, I still think it's stupid, but to some extent you're right that it has sort of been forgotten. However, one is fanfic and is (somewhat) bound by the canon of the shows, the other is meant to be taken as canon.
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She no longer is THE Slayer. If by dream content you mean the sequence when Xander’s head tells her she is ‘the dark’ that sounds quite prophetic of the General’s accusations now and he applies it to all her ‘spawn’ making it clear that it’s no longer uniquely her issue. I also wouldn’t trivialize the connections she’s reformed with Willow and Xander.
'splainy'd' by Ethan.
Ethan splainy’d nothing, he just brought her to the place where she could figure out the connections he wasn’t capable of making himself.
Oh, that's just a ridiculous parallel.
I thought you were complaining about comics Buffy being emotionally opaque for making no explicit reference to Spike, an important figure from her past. My point was simply that she does reference emotionally significant figures from her past just not Spike and in the context of a troubled exchange with Dawn remembering Joyce is a lot more appropriate.
Who said she didn't have relationships with them?
That comment was a response to you saying (quite reasonably) that baking requires new people and new experiences. The story so far begins by subtly establishing how different her relationship with the new Slayers is from the one she had with the potentials, which I think is pretty important. In terms of hints about personal relationships she seems especially close to Leah, she’s been talking with her about Dawn as well as about Slaying, in addition to the less subtle indications that the relationship with Satsu is more complicated than she thinks.
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I would, simply because I really don't view her connection to them in the early years of the show to be all that healthy, especially given how it's hammered home on the show proper how terrified Buffy was of their judgments. Of course this may come from the fact that Joss and I seem to have drastically different opinions of friendship.
No, I wasn't referring to the Xander part of her dream explicitly but more her assertions of her being afraid of herself (the dark) and being afraid to go outside. Perhaps that in and of itself symbolic of why she *has* holed up. And I think they maybe or may not be prophetic, but it still doesn't change that she doesn't seem to have anyone to talk to about them even in her group.
Ethan splainy’d nothing, he just brought her to the place where she could figure out the connections he wasn’t capable of making himself.
Yes, you are absolutely correct. I had actually returned to the journal to retract that statement proffer apologies after rereading the final playout. I *am* fully aware that my own negativity seems to be taking a life of its own with these comics.
My point was simply that she does reference emotionally significant figures from her past just not Spike and in the context of a troubled exchange with Dawn remembering Joyce is a lot more appropriate.
Very true. Dawn wouldn't fully appreciate or even understand Buffy's feelings toward Spike and Joyce is much more relevant. As mentioned below, it is somewhat interesting how absent he is in the dream sequence other than the sexual fantasies. You don't see him at all in the panel detailing her past moments and even putting the romantic angle aside, there's no way Spike wouldn't be there unless there was a reason. Perhaps there's another unseen story thread running, who knows.
The story so far begins by subtly establishing how different her relationship with the new Slayers is from the one she had with the potentials, which I think is pretty important. In terms of hints about personal relationships she seems especially close to Leah, she’s been talking with her about Dawn as well as about Slaying, in addition to the less subtle indications that the relationship with Satsu is more complicated than she thinks.
Yes, one feature I like about new Buffy is her (seemingly) more optimistic views. There's nary a hint of the abject fatalism that we (understandably) saw during S7. I agree about the hinted relationships, but my point is that they seem more casual at least in regard to Buffy's opening herself up. That could change, but it's been a long time, surely she's found some sort of kindred spirit?
You know, I really think my issue might be the timeline. This is a good chunk of time later and we see profound (and strange) changes in the other characters, but the one character who had a goal doesn't seem to have met it and it's not explained why. If this was set closer to Chosen, I'd probably be eating it up (well, not really, the art is *horrible*).
Another big problem that I think is leading to my (and others?) negativity is really the waiting. I mean, did Joss not notice the reaction to BotN after the big wait from NLM? It wasn't the writing, it was the wait.
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