More reviews.

[elisi]

So, I finally got myself a S8 icon (by dreamer1104) - but then this is by a mile my favourite scene so far.

Anyway, more linkage - quite a lot of musing about feminism etc.:

Brief thoughts by kathyh.
Deep thoughts by molly_may.
Deep thoughts by thedeadlyhook.
Response to the Deep Thoughts by stormwreath. (Now with nifty icon! Check it out! *g*)
Summary and analysis by moscow_watcher.
Thoughts by ibmiller.

ETA3: Nifty comparisions between comic and show images. (stormwreath again!) (Who is the mystery guy...?)

ETA: Saw that this post was rec'd in The Herald, so here are previous links:

Review by stormwreath
Review by yourlibrarian.
Review by aycheb.
Very funny review by shapinglight.

I think the best things about the comics is how we're all reading them, and thus discussing the same topics. Yes there's bitching about the art, but most of the posts delve a lot deeper. Even if Joss might disappoint, fandom does not.

Actually - a thought on the whole feminism thing. Both molly_may and thedeadlyhook comment on how all the men (even Andrew!) seem to be cool and in charge, whereas the Slayers are just a bunch of girls that need someone to lead them. And Buffy is all tied down and helpless...
I think (as thedeadlyhook said) that this is where the comic format is really awkward. One issue is only about 1/4 of an episode, so in effect we have only just seen half of ep. 1 of S8 - and if there's anything that usually happens in ep 1 it's Buffy faltering, doubting herself etc - and then turning around to save the day at the end. So I'm stubbornly holding out hope that at the end of issue 4 Buffy will be The Hero, showing the rest of them how it's done.

ETA: I was going to make more points, but stormwreath made a lot of them already. So I'll go sit in the lovely sunshine.

Also I want Andrew's daft speech to have some sort of meaning - clothes make the man? Don't judge by appearences? Guess I'll have to wait and see, but the thing takes up an awful lot of space for no apparent reason.


Also a Happy Birthday to azdak and sarahlynnl! Hope you had/have fabulous days! :)

Comments

[mikeygs.livejournal.com]

It's one of the areas where the format *really* doesn't fit the type of storytelling that made Buffy so great. It's not like you can leave a setup, get the reader/viewer at a zenith emotionally, have a 3 minute commercial interlude where the images and information aren't coalesced into opinion before the other shoe drops. There are 4 months between Act 1 and the Fade to Black and to start that off by dropping us off into a serious ret-con at the outset, the characters barely looking like themselves, with the dynamic (apparently) drastically different from the show (which, IMO, didn't really delve this far into the damsel bit, rising action or not), I'm not sure what we're supposed to think.

[thedeadlyhook.livejournal.com]

which, IMO, didn't really delve this far into the damsel bit, rising action or not

Exactly; I concurr. And, as I recall, when Buffy did seem to be falling into that zone on the show, we all complained about it then, too. (I can't even count the number of angry rants I've read about "Into the Woods.") But did Buffy ever need to be saved in a way that we're being set up for here, and left that way at the end of an episode? "Weight of the World" is about the only one I can think of.

Hm. Okay, also "Seeing Red," with the gunshot wound. And I'd note that in both cases, the rescuer was Willow.

[mikeygs.livejournal.com]

And then she wasn't writhing on a bed in an incongruous nighty waiting for a 'true love' to awaken her.

If it was just that one thing, maybe it'd be different. But you got the overwhelming male authority as you pointed out, a gaggle of almost interchangeable Slayers, SuperStud Xander...

[aycheb.livejournal.com]

Wellcome to the Hellmouth? We only know she saved herself because we watched The Harvest. And this isn't the end of an episode it's half way through one in which case the list is pretty endless. There used to be a misson statement, girl goes into an alley and meets a monster...

But she trounces him. The dramatic power comes precisely from the punchline being unexpected. I think the problem it's been a long time since the series ended and we've all gotten complacent. Joss is just not a safe writer in any medium. And sometimes he screws up.

ETA I hardly think Andrew making a prat of himself failing to answer a simple question about guns counts towards overwhelming male authority.

[mikeygs.livejournal.com]

But she didn't need to be saved in that circumstance; she saved herself, as with Reptile Boy and numerous other occasions. Although, the pedantic part of me has to point out that WTTH and The Harvest aired back to back, so it's not like we were left for a week even in that instance.

That could prove to be the case here as well (I'd love to see Buffy wake up on her own) but we'll find that out in...June if they follow a derivative 4-act structure from a TV show. Meanwhile all this strangeness (much of which, I agree with thedeadlyhook, is seemingly appalling) is festering without explanation for weeks at a time. The Ha-Ha, Gotcha!! gag works very well in the almost instant gratification of TV, but not here.

I think everyone realizes it's early on and guns are dangerously close to being jumped, but in all honesty, nothing I've seen is drawing me in, but rather violently putting me off.

[thedeadlyhook.livejournal.com]

But she didn't need to be saved in that circumstance; she saved herself, as with Reptile Boy and numerous other occasions.

Agreed; in the fadeout in "Welcome to the Hellmouth," she's just been involved in a serious ass-kicking fight, and she's only temporarily down for the count - we totally expect her to jump up again and reverse that trend, because she's been established as the Superhero Girl. So, while it's possible that the comics scene we've been talking about will also resolve in a save-herself scenario (and I should hope so), but I've gotta wonder if Buffy "loving herself" is where we're going with this. And haven't we already been to that place in the show a couple of times already?

[aycheb.livejournal.com]

So if she saves herself it's boring because we've seen that so many times before and if she doesn't it's an outrageous strike against comic-book feminism?

In WttH she'd been set up as the heroine for one episode, and an episode that famously began by completely subverting its apparent set up. In the comic, which is surely aimed at people with at least some familiarity with the show, she's been set up as the heroine for seven seasons, she's rallied from death, boyfrends, madness, sorcery, depression, sickness, love, despair and terminally bad home perms. Surely the only question once the intial shock is passed is how she's going to escape this predicament and kick zombie ass not whether.

[thedeadlyhook.livejournal.com]

Okay, I think now we're getting into the territory of you telling me that I'm not a big enough Buffy fan, and that's a dead argument. I have issues with things I've spelled out pretty clearly, and beyond that I think it's coming down to this may not be the story I care to see, and obviously you feel differently. My feminist issues are not something I'm going to revise based on how much faith I am or not supposed to have in Joss - if he pulls it out in the next issue, great. I'm saying that at this moment, I'm not loving the picture of Buffy we've been left with. That's my critique.

[aycheb.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry if I gave the impression any personal slight was intended. Raised by wolves. Argumentative wolves. All I'm questioning is whether the particular interpretation of what we've been left with that you're not loving is the only possible one.

[thedeadlyhook.livejournal.com]

I'm sure it's not the only interpretation - as I've said before, I think it's likely that this is a setup bound to be reversed later. My gripe is in the issue to issue timing, and the fact that in order to get a typical "episode," we apparently have to sit through a lot of images of Buffy, and the other women, not being shown as particularly empowered. As a whole story, I'm sure it'll come across differently... but that doesn't help my reaction to what I see now.

Ironically - and I think someone's pointed this out above - Andrew's blather about Lando's outfit in Empire Strikes Back is all about judging by appearances, but I'm still not sure what I'm supposed to draw from that one, because isn't the point there that Andrew thinks Lando didn't look cool, while I'm fairly sure that the filmmakers felt that he did look cool in that movie.