elisi: Tony Stark (Mourning)
[personal profile] elisi
First of all - I hope my previous post didn't create the impression that I didn't like the film! It was just a bit like sitting through a whole season of TV, crammed into 2 1/2 hours... No space to breathe.

Way back when the trailers came out I wrote a post. My short take is... that's essentially correct, and that shot of Tony is by far the most affecting in the whole film. ♥

Slightly longer take:


PLOT

- First of all, kudos to the film makers, 'cause the story was easy to follow, even with the ridiculously large cast, which was nice for someone like me who's only seen about half the movies in the franchise so far (f.ex. I've not watched Civil War or Ragnarok).

- Thanos' plan... *hands* Well, it was the same theory as the baddies in Kingsman, although at least that film had the decency to show how all the rich people were orchestrating it and protecting themselves. The idea that killing half the people will AUTOMATICALLY create a better world, without doing a single thing to tackle issues like structural inequality is... I don't have words. I can overlook the inherent silliness of magic stones, since y'know, it's all about superheroes and based on comic books, but Thanos' motivation/hypothesis is difficult to see beyond. (Of course Endgame might show the folly of the whole thing, and I hope so.) ETA: I think the main issue is that our current problems are the destruction of the environment, rising inequality and the re-emergence of fascism. (Plus, y'know, the war in Yemen, the persecution of minorities etc etc) This felt like pure fantasy, without any metaphors as such.

ETA2: Important clarification via [personal profile] jerusha: I think the important thing to remember about Thanos is that he likes killing people. I'm pretty sure he's an unreliable narrator in what his motivations are. I mean, he basically worships death in the comics. Literally, he kills half the universe to prove his love for Death (the personification).
That makes SO MUCH MORE SENSE. Thank you comics.

- As a comparison [on how to do it right] please see Watchmen. Ozymandias >>>>>>>>>> Thanos


CHARACTERS

So, the 13 y.o. and I were in perfect agreement as to who our favourites were!

- Tony Stark (always)

- Spiderman. I had not seen this new one before and MY GOODNESS BUT HE IS THE CUTEST THING EVER! ♥ Also his relationship with Tony is beyond adorable and the whole film could have been those two and I'd have been happy. Tony's little knighting gestures - 'You're an Avenger now' - and generally their whole vibe was MILES AND MILES above ANY other relationship in the whole film. (The romantic relationships included.) It was the only genuinely sad death - I knew that screenshot would turn out to be heart breaking. (We shall now have to watch Homecoming, as well as the animated one, which I wanted to watch anyway.)

- Bruce Banner. He is just such a dear and I want to hug him. (He didn't do much at all, except try to get the Hulk to come out, and failing, but every time he was on screen I was just happy.)

- Thor. Pairing him up with 'the rabbit' & Groot was an INSPIRED choice. Plus his part of the plot (creating a new Hammer etc) was great, as was the moment when he turned up in the middle of the battle. A+, Norse god FTW!


Other characters

- Loki. I think I had an inkling that he might bite the dust (people were VERY UPSET), but didn't realise it'd be so soon. I like Loki, and he's always very entertaining, so thought that it was a bit of a waste, but sort of forgot about him, and he was a great way to fuel Thor's vengeance. (Compare & contrast with the moment when Thanos ran Tony through. Tony is the only one I can't lose; which probably means that he'll bite in the next one.)

- Dr Strange. Hadn't seen his film, but his powers are very nifty.

- The Cap. I literally didn't recognise him. The beard made me think of bearded Action Man and Hank Scorpio from the Simpsons. It's not a bad look, I was just thrown.

Oh goodness, there were so many. IDK. I'm glad Okoye survived. But the ending was basically this:



I was literally hearing that tune in my head. (OK, so only HALF the people are dead, but.)



I might come back & add more to this, but for now my mind is blank. Or actually, just talk to me. :)

(no subject)

Date: 11 April 2019 12:07 am (UTC)
jerusha: (Default)
From: [personal profile] jerusha
I adored the fact that Bruce really did get a chance to shine without the Hulk. His glee in the armor was a joy and a delight forever.

Tony and Peter's relationship is adorbs. Tom Holland in general is just adorable. And Thor and his "sweet rabbit" cracks me up, but in a sentimental way.

I think the important thing to remember about Thanos is that he likes killing people. I'm pretty sure he's an unreliable narrator in what his motivations are. I mean, he basically worships death in the comics. Literally, he kills half the universe to prove his love for Death (the personification).

(no subject)

Date: 11 April 2019 01:43 pm (UTC)
yourlibrarian: Illyria Time Warp (BUF-IllyriaTimeWarp-telltale)
From: [personal profile] yourlibrarian
Yes, I think they changed Thanos' motivation because it seems so absurd when taken from the comics whereas now it seems "topical." But it's so easy to punch holes through it that it didn't work for me. I thought it made much more sense that Thanos was immortal and wanted to die but couldn't, so he was "romancing death" in order to do so.

(no subject)

Date: 11 April 2019 01:04 am (UTC)
yourlibrarian: Tony & Peter Parker (AVEN-Tony&Peter-ebsolutely.png)
From: [personal profile] yourlibrarian
We shall now have to watch Homecoming, as well as the animated one, which I wanted to watch anyway.

I'm glad to hear this as IMO it's the best of the Marvel films. Dr. Strange is worth watching too, though it's not as entertaining. But there are some great bits of dialogue. That's one thing to me that all MCU films have is at least some quotable dialogue.

He didn't do much at all, except try to get the Hulk to come out, and failing, but every time he was on screen I was just happy.

"Dude, you're embarrassing me in front of the wizards."

(no subject)

Date: 11 April 2019 02:45 am (UTC)
lynnenne: (avengers: we are all in the gutter)
From: [personal profile] lynnenne
Funniest line in the whole movie!

(no subject)

Date: 11 April 2019 02:12 pm (UTC)
yourlibrarian: Tony & his Arc Reactor-biliki (AVEN-TonyArcReactor-biliki)
From: [personal profile] yourlibrarian
To me it also fell to Tony but just a little later. I loved the way he summed up the situation to Peter as he came on the scene:

"What is this guy's problem, Mr. Stark?"

"He's from space. He came to steal a necklace from a wizard."

It's not that the line was meant to be that funny, but just the way that RDJ collapsed the whole crazy situation and the fact that Peter just goes with it.

Also, just another example of this.

(no subject)

Date: 12 April 2019 02:53 pm (UTC)
yourlibrarian: Tony Stark yells at Doctor Strange (AVEN-TonyYellsatStrange-ebsolutely.png)
From: [personal profile] yourlibrarian
It's great -- you can just see the years wearing on him physically. And, of course, the last gif was from the "kick names and take ass" line where he realizes that what backup he has are complete morons.

(no subject)

Date: 11 April 2019 01:46 pm (UTC)
yourlibrarian: Peter Quill Reaches out (AVEN-QuillReach - famira.png)
From: [personal profile] yourlibrarian
Absolutely -- as I recall there were many good ones in this post. I do wish we could link directly to them in the icon fields.

(no subject)

Date: 11 April 2019 09:26 pm (UTC)
yourlibrarian: Nick Fury Fades Away (AVEN-NickFuryFadeAway-megascopes)
From: [personal profile] yourlibrarian
No sorry, I don't recall the post's link. I wish we could put them into the icon fields when we upload them -- I'm not even sure if Ebsolutely's account is here or on LJ.

(no subject)

Date: 17 April 2019 03:02 am (UTC)
yourlibrarian: Loki's horns peek over the edge of the icon (AVEN-LokiHornPeek-Zugma.PNG)
From: [personal profile] yourlibrarian
Just popping in to say I figured out a quick way to find the link and: https://megascopes.dreamwidth.org/8163.html

(no subject)

Date: 11 April 2019 02:47 am (UTC)
lynnenne: (avengers: we are all in the gutter)
From: [personal profile] lynnenne
Totally agree on pairing Thor up with Rocket and Groot. Every time he called Rocket "Rabbit" made me laugh.

I love Tony & Peter's relationship, and Peter's death was the only one that made me cry. "I don't want to go." *SOBS*

(no subject)

Date: 11 April 2019 01:45 pm (UTC)
yourlibrarian: Peter Resolved (AVEN-PeterResolved-ebsolutely.png)
From: [personal profile] yourlibrarian
Perhaps of interest is that Tom and Tony improvised his entire death scene on the day, it wasn't written. I think it works regardless of how well you know the character but once you see their relationship develop in Homecoming it will be an additional gut punch.

(no subject)

Date: 11 April 2019 09:23 pm (UTC)
avrelia: (Default)
From: [personal profile] avrelia
Totally agree on Thor and other things. But Thor: so perfect going from comedic relief to great tragedy in a second. and he learned Groot at school!

I saw that you are planning to watch both Spiderman: Homecoming and animated Spiderman, and I can't wait to see you reaction! I loved them so much, and I think Spiderman: homecoming have one of the best villains - the one who is actually relatable, you know?

I rarely care for romance in MCU much, but strangely I liked Vision and Wanda's crazy thing.

(no subject)

Date: 12 April 2019 05:26 pm (UTC)
avrelia: (Default)
From: [personal profile] avrelia
I love the first Thor movie! it's perfectly cheesy and fun.


Age of Ultron, on the contrary, is a mess, and not a fun one. It has some good scenes, and that's about it.

(no subject)

Date: 12 April 2019 09:54 pm (UTC)
greensword: (our enemies are your enemies)
From: [personal profile] greensword
I haven't see Infinity War, because I've learned I really dislike the actual Avengers movies (+ Civil War, which is basically an Avengers movie), and I've yet to actually watch anything of Homecoming besides gifs on tumblr, but I still love the MCU's Peter Parker, and his relationship with Tony, it is that good and has been taken up that enthusiastically by fandom.

(no subject)

Date: 12 April 2019 09:55 pm (UTC)
greensword: (our enemies are your enemies)
From: [personal profile] greensword
Oh I guess I did watch Civil War, even if I didn't like it, and that has Peter in it, so it's not pure osmosis. But still. Tom Holland is perfect in that role.

(no subject)

Date: 13 April 2019 01:24 pm (UTC)
greensword: (Default)
From: [personal profile] greensword
I have not! I am slowly working my way through the individual films that people recommend to me. I was thinking of watching Ant Man & the Wasp because I like Evangeline Lilly, but I guess I should watch Ant Man first.

but I still love the MCU's Peter Parker, and his relationship with Tony, it is that good and has been taken up that enthusiastically by fandom.
*beams* I love it when something just works.


In retrospect its obvious? Because Tony's biggest trauma is his terrible father, so of course it would be super cathartic for him to step into a father figure role with someone and do it, not perfectly, but with the kind of heart his father never showed him.

(Although now I'm wondering, how much of the Tony:Peter relationship is a mirror for Howard:Tony and how much of it is a mirror for Howard:Steve? I mean, to the extent that anyone from Insight is a father figure for Steve it's Erskine, which means he's largely operating without a father figure pretty much his whole life, but to some extent Howard helped "make" Steve, made his shield, etc. and that aspect is probably played up in the stories he told Tony.)

(no subject)

Date: 13 April 2019 01:49 pm (UTC)
greensword: (Default)
From: [personal profile] greensword
Oh whoops, sorry, yeah that totally assumes a good memory of The First Avenger. Basically, I was saying that Erskine and Howard "created" Captain America, and Erskine had a sort of paternal role toward Steve that is reminiscent of Tony's toward Peter. And when Erskine died, no one else really filled that role for Steve, but Howard did keep equipping him and made him his shield, and obviously had a somewhat complicated emotional investment in him, one that played a big role in Tony's own life. So, like, I could see Tony mentoring and supplying Peter for a lot of reasons but also because that's just what Starks do with superheroes. Only Tony's sure as hell not going to let his get frozen in ice for seventy years or turned to dust.

(no subject)

Date: 13 April 2019 03:22 pm (UTC)
watervole: (Default)
From: [personal profile] watervole
You will like the Dr Strange film -not just for the characters, but also for the artistic look of it. The opening scene is wonderfully Escher-like.

(no subject)

Date: 16 April 2019 03:31 pm (UTC)
watervole: (Default)
From: [personal profile] watervole
I think Dr Strange is my favourite so far. There are many things to love. Bernard Cummerbach playing a really annoying jerk - and you still like the guy. The cape, which has a personality all of it's own, and a great reveal part way through, which helps him realise he's being a jerk.

And the visuals!

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elisi: van Gogh almond flowers (Default)elisi
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