elisi | (no subject)

So, the day before yesterday Darcy & decided to watch The Winter Soldier (it was on Netflix, we hadn't seen it).

I'd taken a good deal in by fannish osmosis, so was expecting a bromance (well star-crossed in that Bucky was 'evil').

This proved incorrect.

The main friendship was Cap/Natasha (I love Natasha, so this was A-OK with me). But I had no idea that she was even in the film.

The secondary friendship was Cap/Falcon (Sam?). I sort of wish they'd done more with it, rather than The Falcon deciding to help out because... he could. He looked vaguely familiar, but didn't realise who he was until he put the wings on and I waved my hands around 'cause he had like a 3 second cameo in Antman.

As for Bucky, then... Well Darcy thought him way cooler than the Cap (all emo with his dark hair, and he had a cool arm too!) and I wish we'd gotten more of him? Like, it's his name on the film, but he's barely onscreen. And the Steve/Bucky friendship is covered in two blink-and-you'll-miss-it flashbacks. (This is of course where tropes are very handy, cause goodness knows male friendship is something so fundamental to stories generally that we can fill in the whole thing without knowing anything beyond the fact that they'd always be there for each other.) (I am sure the whole thing is beautifully fleshed out in the comics. But as a viewer, it felt a little... basic.)

Their actual interactions don't take much more than 5 minutes (maybe 10?) and most of those they spend fighting.

Sidebar: Who was the massively cool lady with the dark hair? Fury's right hand woman? Don't even know her name, she seemed more together & smarter than all the rest put together. Give her a film!

Plot... um. IDK. A thing. Stupidly ridiculous as these things always are, and I think I got the main gist, but mostly through knowing how these things work.

So is there more Bucky somewhere? Does Mr tortured & memory wiped & turned into a weapon get an actual story at some point?

Oh and it was fun to see how it built to Age of Ultron (which I have seen), with the twins at the end.

Mostly though, then this fantastically well-organised group of Nazis is just... too unreal? In the actual world, they're 'alt-right' keyboard 'warriors', not hyper-fit soldiers or massively scheming uber Bad Guys. (I mean, they do scheme, and cause a lot of damage, but it's just ugly and horrible and every day.) Give me Kylo Ren any day, he's more plausible than Hydra. The angry young radicalised white guy hung up on the past, who in another world would wear a MAGA hat and yell about the 2nd Amendment online.

Plus (BLACK PANTHER SPOILERS below)

Am I right in thinking that Shuri fixed Bucky?

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"Project Insight is just Facebook with guns."

Actually it's Google with Guns: A dozen Google employees quit over military drone project.

Well, to be fair, that hadn't happened yet when we last watched it! :D

Fair!

When I saw this article the other day, I literally said aloud, "Did none of you watch Winter Soldier?"

OH JOY!

(Although again, it's not hidden, people are protesting, and yet it still seems to be going ahead. Can we switch 3 little Sim cards and stop it all, please?)

To be fair, they switched 3 little Sim cards and completely dismantled a government agency after putting all of its secret materials online.

(Natasha telling Congress to fuck off is my least favorite part of Winter Soldier, but Natasha dumping all of SHIELDs files on the internet despite the fact that her own history of assassination will be revealed is, IMO, the best Nat moment in canon and one of my favorite character moments ever in the MCU. That's bravery. She didn't have to do that to stop the helicarriers - it shows her dedication to the belief that Steve articulates, that SHIELD is too corrupt to continue.)

But yeah, I don't know. I'm trying to do what I can but it's hard to get people to take the dangers seriously.

Edited 2018-05-18 15:40 (UTC)

To be fair, they switched 3 little Sim cards and completely dismantled a government agency after putting all of its secret materials online.
Fair nuff. ;)

but Natasha dumping all of SHIELDs files on the internet despite the fact that her own history of assassination will be revealed is, IMO, the best Nat moment in all of the MCU and one of my favorite character moments ever in the MCU. That's bravery.
Yeah, I would have watched this film SO MUCH SOONER if I'd known she was one of the main characters!!

But yeah, I don't know. I'm trying to do what I can but it's hard to get people to take the dangers seriously.
And at the moment, it's a continual roller coaster of disasters. It's hard to keep up.

I'm not really a MCU fan. I watched all the movies through the first Avengers because I thought I needed the background to watch Agents of SHIELD and then decided they were too shallow and formulaic and full of broody men to be worth it. But you're making me want to watch for Natasha.

I love Natasha's arc in Winter Soldier. She's arguably the main supporting character - yes, the title is Winter Soldier, but she gets more screen time than anyone but Steve, and she has possibly the best character arc. If you like Natasha, it's probably worth seeing the movie.

(I'm not an MCU fan either. I really just like Winter Soldier and Black Panther. What I like about those two movies is that they have a compelling theme and each of the characters arcs within the movies reflect on those themes. If pressed, I would say the theme of Winter Soldier is "trust", and the theme of Black Panther is "duty". There are elements of both movies that are formulaic but that's true of almost any movie. And yes, Steve is broody in Winter Soldier but I think they do a good job of subtly conveying high-functioning depression and I appreciate seeing that in a superhero film.)

If you do end up watching, let me know what you think!

Well now I have, in fact, watched it. I'm mainlining the whole MCU like it's a tv show in the hopes that it'll be more interesting that way. It's kinda helping.

Winter Soldier is definitely one of my favorites so far. Though it should be noted that I am super easy for spy stuff. And it's not like this was great spy stuff, but even mediocre spy stuff makes me deeply happy in a way that super heroes fail to, so grain of salt there. I'm also, for the first time, really interested to see where the universe as a whole will go from here. I'm an Agents of SHIELD fan, so I do know the broad strokes, but I like the sense that, ok, now we're telling a story where everything up to this point has basically been laying out the board.

Natasha fills me with love and flailing. Also was surprisingly fond of her friendship with Steve and how low-key and natural it felt.

I'm mainlining the whole MCU like it's a tv show in the hopes that it'll be more interesting that way. It's kinda helping.

Damn! I'm impressed, I don't have the stamina for that. I hope you do a thumbs-up/thumbs-down for the whole set at the end - I'm curious to know if there's any other good ones I'm missing.

I'm also, for the first time, really interested to see where the universe as a whole will go from here.

That was how I felt as well! Although, perhaps unsurprisingly, I found that fic has explored the universe and thematic potential of Winter Soldier way better than canon did.

Natasha fills me with love and flailing. Also was surprisingly fond of her friendship with Steve and how low-key and natural it felt.

100% agreed. Steve/Nat is one of my few anti-ships just because I love their platonic friendship so much.

I thought the movie generally did a good job at portraying interesting and complex relationships even with limited screentime. I liked what they did with Natasha & Fury's relationship, Steve & Peggy's, Nick & Fury's, and Sam & Steve's.

Damn! I'm impressed, I don't have the stamina for that.
It's been awhile before I've watched anything this way, but I do love a good marathon. And it's a really useful tool to make more interesting things that you'd otherwise be meh about or where you need to get through a lot of mediocre stuff to get to what you want to watch.

I hope you do a thumbs-up/thumbs-down for the whole set at the end - I'm curious to know if there's any other good ones I'm missing.
That's not a bad idea. Though I'm feeding my reactions to elisi down below if you're curious in the meantime.

That was how I felt as well! Although, perhaps unsurprisingly, I found that fic has explored the universe and thematic potential of Winter Soldier way better than canon did.
I can totally believe that. I am setting my expectations low here because I am 100% a tv over movies person. It's hard not to feel that movies are hopelessly lacking in this department when you're acclimated to how tv storytelling works.

I thought the movie generally did a good job at portraying interesting and complex relationships even with limited screentime. I liked what they did with Natasha & Fury's relationship, Steve & Peggy's, Nick & Fury's, and Sam & Steve's.
That is very true. The whole thing had, like, this quiet weight to it from all of these surprisingly satisfying relationships.

Though I'm feeding my reactions to elisi down below if you're curious in the meantime.

*goes to look*

I liked what they did with Natasha & Fury's relationship, Steve & Peggy's, Nick & Fury's, and Sam & Steve's.

Damn it, I meant Pierce & Fury's. Although Fury's self-conflict was interesting too.