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Chibnall and the metal bikini
So, when trying to think back on the new showrunner's previous work, one episode did of course stand out...
Now a cyber woman fighting a pterodactyl is probably the single most iconic moment of Torchwood, and as someone who likes my crack deep fried I rather adore it.
However, there is the question of the metal bikini, and at whose feet we shall lay that whole fiasco? Before decrying Chibnall as an evil sexist (have we been on this band wagon before? Why yes we have! If you are in charge of Doctor Who, it is self-evident that you hate women/all minority groups/anyone else you can think of) I thought I'd try to find out if the outfit was his idea, or if - like the case with Amy's skirt - it was something completely out of his hands. (Amy's short skirts were Karen Gillan's idea, and had nothing to do with Moffat.)
For anyone not familiar with the episode is centers around the fact that one of the characters, Ianto, has hidden his girlfriend, Lisa, in the Torchwood basement. The twist being that she's a part-converted cyberman [see the S2 finale of Doctor Who]. Why this is problematic should be evident from these images:
I couldn't find a good quality image of her feet, but those are cute little Cuban heels she's wearing, a million miles from the big stompy footwear cybermen are usually seen wearing.
As I don't have access to the shooting scripts, I instead watched the Declassified episode for 'Cyberwoman' (it's from 2007). I transcribed the relevant parts:
So... Unless the shooting script has 'SEXY' underlined and highlighted, I don't think we can lay the metal bikini at Chibnall's door - it seems to have been a team effort, quite literally. And RTD very clearly found the whole thing hilarious.
To be honest it's quite weird watching it. Like - can't you hear yourselves? But it's very clear that they wanted A Sexy Cyborg, and A Sexy Cyborg is what we got. Whether we should haul up every man involved, or quite simply blame the sexism that permeates society (and that this episode is a perfect example and symptom of), I can't say.
Let's all just hope that at some point, someone took Chibnall aside and said: 'That metal bikini? Was truly terrible, never do it again.'
Although to be fair, Torchwood was at that point still at the jumping up and down going: 'Look! Look! I'm all adult and violent and grim and full of sexual content!!!' stage. And I guess nothing symbolises that more than the sexy cyborg...
Because, if I'm honest, I'm not really outraged*, I'm just nostalgic. It was stupid, but ridiculously so, in that very special Torchwood way: It was also the episode where Jack - quite literally - snogged Ianto back to life.
And I'd rather have had hundred more offensive cyber women, than Miracle Day. :(
They killed my show, and I'm still sad. So I guess that's my final thought:
Dear Chibnall, please make Doctor Who full of weird and wonderful crack, but without objectifying women. And I'm pretty sure you're on that already. Thank you.
ETA: PLEASE BE CIVIL. I realise this is a hornet's nest, but I have no axe to grind. I generally like everyone & everything. (Except Miracle Day.) /fandom's Pollyanna
*They all wanted her to be sexy, and not one of them seems to have spoken up against it. It's just quietly depressing, much like when you read about studies showing just how much women are discriminated against, still, in every way.
Now a cyber woman fighting a pterodactyl is probably the single most iconic moment of Torchwood, and as someone who likes my crack deep fried I rather adore it.
However, there is the question of the metal bikini, and at whose feet we shall lay that whole fiasco? Before decrying Chibnall as an evil sexist (have we been on this band wagon before? Why yes we have! If you are in charge of Doctor Who, it is self-evident that you hate women/all minority groups/anyone else you can think of) I thought I'd try to find out if the outfit was his idea, or if - like the case with Amy's skirt - it was something completely out of his hands. (Amy's short skirts were Karen Gillan's idea, and had nothing to do with Moffat.)
For anyone not familiar with the episode is centers around the fact that one of the characters, Ianto, has hidden his girlfriend, Lisa, in the Torchwood basement. The twist being that she's a part-converted cyberman [see the S2 finale of Doctor Who]. Why this is problematic should be evident from these images:
I couldn't find a good quality image of her feet, but those are cute little Cuban heels she's wearing, a million miles from the big stompy footwear cybermen are usually seen wearing.
As I don't have access to the shooting scripts, I instead watched the Declassified episode for 'Cyberwoman' (it's from 2007). I transcribed the relevant parts:
Here is RTD talking about Lisa's outfit:
"There is a very long history of sexy pneumatic hydraulic women, strangely, in Science Fiction, and we actually wanted to tap into that, and to give a Cyberman version of that, which is just irresistible."
[Cue scene of Japanese science guy perving over Lisa, while Ianto looks disgusted]
RTD cont: "Great, iconic imagery of that woman, trapped, in half a cyberman suit. Brilliant."
[Then there's some talk by the costume/props people about how she's half converted, and trying to figure out what's underneath the cybermen's shiny exterior. And the actress was quite taken with her outfit.]
Director James Strong: "It was so important for this episode that the Cyber Girl looked a) amazing, but also looked threatening and looked scary and looked formidable, but still looked sexy and looked great."
RTD: "There are a lot of men on the team who were absolutely determined to make that Cyber Woman costume as sexy as possible. I've got no idea what they mean. I'm the one sitting there going 'Couldn't she do with a nice little bikini bottom in case she gets too cold in this environment? Apparently it's very very sexy..."
[Then a section where the cast talk about how scary she is - to their credit not one of them mentions the word 'sexy' just that she was intimidating.]
Director: "I think Cyber Girl be the most iconic monster and villain in the entire series...
[montage of Cyber Woman & pterodactyl]
RTD: "The idea of having a pterodactyl fight a cyber woman made us laugh for about three weeks. Solidly."
So... Unless the shooting script has 'SEXY' underlined and highlighted, I don't think we can lay the metal bikini at Chibnall's door - it seems to have been a team effort, quite literally. And RTD very clearly found the whole thing hilarious.
To be honest it's quite weird watching it. Like - can't you hear yourselves? But it's very clear that they wanted A Sexy Cyborg, and A Sexy Cyborg is what we got. Whether we should haul up every man involved, or quite simply blame the sexism that permeates society (and that this episode is a perfect example and symptom of), I can't say.
Let's all just hope that at some point, someone took Chibnall aside and said: 'That metal bikini? Was truly terrible, never do it again.'
Although to be fair, Torchwood was at that point still at the jumping up and down going: 'Look! Look! I'm all adult and violent and grim and full of sexual content!!!' stage. And I guess nothing symbolises that more than the sexy cyborg...
Because, if I'm honest, I'm not really outraged*, I'm just nostalgic. It was stupid, but ridiculously so, in that very special Torchwood way: It was also the episode where Jack - quite literally - snogged Ianto back to life.
And I'd rather have had hundred more offensive cyber women, than Miracle Day. :(
They killed my show, and I'm still sad. So I guess that's my final thought:
Dear Chibnall, please make Doctor Who full of weird and wonderful crack, but without objectifying women. And I'm pretty sure you're on that already. Thank you.
ETA: PLEASE BE CIVIL. I realise this is a hornet's nest, but I have no axe to grind. I generally like everyone & everything. (Except Miracle Day.) /fandom's Pollyanna
*They all wanted her to be sexy, and not one of them seems to have spoken up against it. It's just quietly depressing, much like when you read about studies showing just how much women are discriminated against, still, in every way.
no subject
I guess why it gets to me so much is that I can't decide who is right and who is wrong. Both are right and have their reasons.
I certainly don't think it is the worst Torchwood episode. That honor for me goes to "Countryside" which I truly dislike yet so many people including the actors state it as their favorite. I really don't get why. Well, the beginning with the camping and everything, yes, and Ianto in jeans, I get that too, but then? Urrgh.
So, like
no subject
OOooh yes, I'm right there with you. But if I'd started talking about that I'd just have descended into shippiness. ;)
I guess why it gets to me so much is that I can't decide who is right and who is wrong. Both are right and have their reasons.
This. Shades of grey, I love it. (Torchwood is excellent at shades of grey.)
That honor for me goes to "Countryside" which I truly dislike yet so many people including the actors state it as their favorite. I really don't get why.
They do??? Really? How odd. But then David Tennant & Catherine Tate loved Donna's ending, because the acting was such a challenge/rewarding.
Maybe I should get her and the Blowfish for sentimental reasons. I think they are not very expensive...
<3 My favourite use of Lisa in that outfit is in Torchwood Babiez, where Ianto carries round a Lisa doll. You can glimpse it in my icon.
no subject
Stargate, in the beginning, was very good at that as well. Jack the soldier/leader always wanted to shoot first and ask questions later, and Daniel the civilian/archeologist wanted to talk with the aliens. Over the course of several years Daniel became more soldier-like while Jack softened up. It was great to see but it took the fight out of it a bit. I loved the early years because again I could see both being right from their POV. Jack has had many bad experiences and became wary and untrusting, and Daniel was too naïve and trustworthy sometimes which got them into trouble and then it was interesting to see them work on a solution both can live with.
I had quite to smile when in the “Devil in the Dark” Star Trek TOS episode we had a very similar situation with Kirk wanting to kill the beast but Spock said it is the last of its kind and we can’t. But then when Kirk was in danger Spock was ready to kill it while Kirk already had made friends with it. Somehow this episode felt very Stargate like to me ;) I guess it is a simple theme we can find in lots of science fiction.
They do??? Really? How odd.
I think the actors where just happy to be out of the studio for a change. They stayed in the middle of nowhere in a hotel while shooting and there are lots of funny stories John Barrowman and Eve Myles like to tell at conventions. Apparently John was so frightened after they told each other ghost stories that he slept in Eve’s bed… I’m sure they had fun filming it but it still makes for a bad episode (I also rather choose to ignore the Jack statement of that he used to be a torturer. It does not fit with the view I have of the character and they never came back to it either)
Oh yeah I love the Torchwood Babiez! That was a great evening many years ago when someone had linked to it and I explored it. Very well drawn and also really, really spot on and funny. I wish there was more.
no subject
*nods* Sci-fi is great for exploring all these issues.
They stayed in the middle of nowhere in a hotel while shooting and there are lots of funny stories John Barrowman and Eve Myles like to tell at conventions. Apparently John was so frightened after they told each other ghost stories that he slept in Eve’s bed…
Now THAT I believe. :)
I wish there was more.
If only...
no subject
It's been awhile so I don't remember it that well, but I'm pretty sure I found it one of the stronger season one episodes? Not my ~favorite, but definitely above average. It's a good episode for Gwen, if I recall correctly. And I definitely found 'because it made me happy' one of the most chilling moments of classic Torchwood. (I watched the Declassified on this one too, and most of the actors seemed to agree.)
The Welsh stereotyping, I'll admit, went straight over my head, so I'll grant anyone that who found it offensive on that front. I suppose if it was an American show we'd set the episode in the Appalachian mountains . . .
no subject
I just found that... a bit underwhelming? Like, if you're a cannibal, clearly you are insane.
I suppose if it was an American show we'd set the episode in the Appalachian mountains . . .
But Wales ISN'T the back of beyond. I guess they set it in Wales because that's where they're based, but it was... unfortunate.