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Mark Watches. (and Reads)
Thoughts inspired by the posts by ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
gabrielleabelle and shadowkat67, because of the fact that Mark actually now makes his living with his blog (and good for him! I've not got any problems with this at all). But it's still weird for the rest of us...
Let me start with a Moffat quote which sprang to mind:
Mark is, essentially, that 'occasional viewer'. Sure he's watching his way through the whole thing with determination, but his posts are reaction posts. To him, Buffy is just a story, and he looks at it like a story, whereas most of us, I'd wager, looked past the story 223 metaphors ago. We would (and many did) PAY to watch the show, not the other way around...
It is, essentially, the difference between initial reaction and subsequent analysis. It's nice for him that he has a market for his initial impressions, but I, personally, would not be interested in either writing & selling something like that, nor buying it, since first impressions are [for us] merely the starting point, not the end product. That's why it's weird. (Heck just look at all these posts we're writing trying to analyse why it feels weird.)
Which reminds me - I'm also following his 'Mark Reads LotR' (which has made me go hunt out trailers & clips from the movies, 'cause OMG the nostalgia), but that slight disconnect there is between his viewing of a show from the '90 through today's eyes? Is HUGE when it comes to LoTR. He is very character focussed, and it's just WEIRD. Tolkien is all story (history), and reactions like 'How can he DO this to so-and-so???' just make me tilt my head, because it just doesn't fit... (Do you know what I mean? Tolkien has marvellous characters, but he's so far from Joss as to be on another planet.)
I like Mark, he's fun and entertaining, but when it comes to 'proper, paid up, head-full-of-lists fans' (like us) look no further than Tea at the Ford, Slayage, Whedonistas, Chicks Dig Timelords, etc... (I'm not saying that Mark couldn't become one of us. Just that he isn't yet.)
gabrielleabelle and shadowkat67, because of the fact that Mark actually now makes his living with his blog (and good for him! I've not got any problems with this at all). But it's still weird for the rest of us...Let me start with a Moffat quote which sprang to mind:
No, you're not understanding me. I'm a proper, paid up, head-full-of-lists fan. Lots of my friends are fans too, I go to the fan gathering every month in the Fitzroy ... I think we're all lovely, and don't need to be kept in basements. Well, except him. And him. And those two. And her.
But when I write the show I put my professional telly head on and try to address the occasional viewer. Cos that's the vast majority of the audience. Getting lost in the fan perspective, can be a problem - and such an easy trap for me! As far as feedback goes, I prefer it from the playground or the pub.
Mark is, essentially, that 'occasional viewer'. Sure he's watching his way through the whole thing with determination, but his posts are reaction posts. To him, Buffy is just a story, and he looks at it like a story, whereas most of us, I'd wager, looked past the story 223 metaphors ago. We would (and many did) PAY to watch the show, not the other way around...
It is, essentially, the difference between initial reaction and subsequent analysis. It's nice for him that he has a market for his initial impressions, but I, personally, would not be interested in either writing & selling something like that, nor buying it, since first impressions are [for us] merely the starting point, not the end product. That's why it's weird. (Heck just look at all these posts we're writing trying to analyse why it feels weird.)
Which reminds me - I'm also following his 'Mark Reads LotR' (which has made me go hunt out trailers & clips from the movies, 'cause OMG the nostalgia), but that slight disconnect there is between his viewing of a show from the '90 through today's eyes? Is HUGE when it comes to LoTR. He is very character focussed, and it's just WEIRD. Tolkien is all story (history), and reactions like 'How can he DO this to so-and-so???' just make me tilt my head, because it just doesn't fit... (Do you know what I mean? Tolkien has marvellous characters, but he's so far from Joss as to be on another planet.)
I like Mark, he's fun and entertaining, but when it comes to 'proper, paid up, head-full-of-lists fans' (like us) look no further than Tea at the Ford, Slayage, Whedonistas, Chicks Dig Timelords, etc... (I'm not saying that Mark couldn't become one of us. Just that he isn't yet.)
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Though I don't normally read "Mark reads," I had to look at his most recent post. And nearly burst out laughing when he started discussing Orcs. Because that's the fanfic impluse in a nutshell, and I know of one writer who does nothing but orc-focused stories.
But I think the reason I'm not reading his blog is that it's first impressions. I'm beyond that point. I want to discuss the meat.
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Well obviously, but... *searches for the right words* It's a story-driven story, rather than a character-driven one, which sounds ridiculous (esp given Frodo's journey), but there is so much structure to the whole thing. It's not a morality play... From the foreword to LotR:
I'm kinda tired, but I think what I mean is that the characters are caught up in events larger than themselves, rather than being the cause of events. When Tolkien kills off Boromir, he's not doing it for the same reasons Joss kills off characters.
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the characters are caught up in events larger than themselves, rather than being the cause of events.
That I agree 100% with. "All we have to do is decide is what to do with the time that is given us." But it's how they react that makes the book.
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It's very story driven, but with amazing characters. I think my main thing is that he would probably not quite understand the 'soap' elements of so many stories today... Buffy is a soap (and I mean that in the best possible way), and LotR emphatically isn't.
That I agree 100% with. "All we have to do is decide is what to do with the time that is given us." But it's how they react that makes the book.
Oh absolutely. (Which reminds me that someone should start a petition to get Peter Jackson to do the story of Beren and Luthien and the Silmarils once he's finished the Hobbit...)
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Which reminds me that someone should start a petition to get Peter Jackson to do the story of Beren and Luthien and the Silmarils once he's finished the Hobbit...
It'll never happen. Christopher Tolkien won't let the rights go. Plus, I don't want a movie of the Silm; a mini-series would work so much better. (Beren and Lúthien would work as a movie, though.) Oh-- have you seen this? It's a treatment of the Akallabêth as a prequel movie.
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He doesn't put the characters in peril in order to keep the audience hooked, which is what most writers do these days...
Beren and Lúthien would work as a movie, though.
I was mostly thinking of their story, partly because it's a proper story - the rest is very heavy & without any kind of character-stuff...
Oh-- have you seen this? It's a treatment of the Akallabêth as a prequel movie.
I haven't, no - thank you!
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Personally I don't understand all the fuss about that blog since, for what I have seen concerning Buffy posts (I only read of couple of them), it's mostly emotional reactions, overuse of capitals and personal stuff, and not much wit (for what I have seen at least). No analysis at all, indeed. And now you say he's being paid for that, like a critique except that he doesn't do a true reviews?
The whole thing reminds me of reality shows, and like those, I'm pretty sure it is rather staged and less genuine than it's supposed to be.
It's a surprise to see that so "many of us" are fascinated by this blog, but perhaps I shouldn't be surprised given the success of reality shows on tv. Watching him watch Buffy for the first time and just react is merely voyeurism, but looks like it sells well.
I'm more severe than you, and perhaps unfair considering that I have read only a couple of his entries), I know, but to me it isn't just weird, it's sad.
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Plus, it's just HUGELY nostalgic to follow someone watch it for the first time. I did find Arbitrar of Quality to have far more substance & reflection. I think Mark is perfectly genuine, but he has a very specific (and carefully tailored) style. It's... fluff. But fluff is nice. I'm looking forward to when we get to the more complex stuff though - he's in the second half of S2 now, and is dealing with Angelus, which mostly makes him go 'OH I HATE HIM NOW!' But then Angelus is such an easy villain to hate. Even S3 is a lot more complex, because Faith crosses over and the mayor is so gosh darn likeable... No, I'm not cut out for simplicity. ;)
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I suppose that the nostalgia factor is also to be taken into account though. :-)
I wasn't saying that simplicity is bad, just that the whole thing was quite "basic"(instead of simple)and it isn't what I like the most in this wonderful world.
Maybe I am not cut out for this time...
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Oh I think it's so on purpose. Fandom is his audience, and he knows the lingo. Have you seen his Twilight reviews? I've skimmed through those for the first book, and he's very inventive. Some of the reviews are like interviews. One is an autopsy report (of himself - the chapter killed him!), and there's a few that are structured like plays, some have gifs or macros or youtube videos. He is very savvy.
I suppose that the nostalgia factor is also to be taken into account though. :-)
Well that's the main reason *I* am reading... :)
I wasn't saying that simplicity is bad, just that the whole thing was quite "basic"(instead of simple)and it isn't what I like the most in this wonderful world.
Yes, that's what I was trying to get at in my post. He writes straightforward reactions w/ a bit of reviewing on top. Oh, I still remember the day - now many, many years ago - when I first stumbled upon the_royal_anna and her meta, and discovered that you could do more than just react. (All the stuff I'd found until then had been a la Mark. Maybe a bit more indepth, but not deep.)
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But now, I'm surrounded by in-depthness, and the thing that's really dragging me back into Buffy fannishness* is Mark and his silly silly reviews...
* Really dragging me back in. I'm on the verge of ficcing again.
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It's safe. People love his blogs...because he reminds them of their emotional reactions to the series. And some of the posts do go in depth. He talks about his life as a gay man in a world that doesn't accept him. They are very personal. Not academic - or analytical. There doesn't appear to be analytical bone in the man's body.
My difficulty with them is ...the emotion doesn't feel genuine and I think that may be your complaint as well...that it has the same false telegraphed feel that reality shows have? I agree. I read to see what everyone is going on about - a lot of people, whose opinions I trust have rec'd it. But...I see the patterns in his posts, the use of capital letters, the same syntax,
and the same story over and over about himself. It feels calculated and boilerplate. And that bugs me. There's nothing wrong with what he's doing per se...a lot of people are doing it. And he is doing everything they tell you to do if you want to write a best-selling blog that will get a lot of hits and make money. Keep in mind - he's unemployed, 28 years of age, formerly homeless, and trying to make his life work. Having sort of been there, done that? I can relate. Not everyone gets lucky in finding a career.
We do the best we can. And really, is what he's doing any different than
what an academic does when they get paid for writing some journal article that only fellow academics and students read? Not really. It's not my thing, but elisi and others have a point...to each their own.
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Heh. This is all rather spot-on. :)
But...I see the patterns in his posts, the use of capital letters, the same syntax, and the same story over and over about himself.
I've been thinking about this, and considering just the sheer AMOUNT of writing he does, I can't blame him for being slightly repetitive/having a 'house style'. I absolutely couldn't write that much on a daily basis.
We do the best we can. And really, is what he's doing any different than
what an academic does when they get paid for writing some journal article that only fellow academics and students read? Not really.
I've been thinking along the same lines. His writing doesn't have the depth of academic writing, but then his audience is very different...
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Very true. He literally writes a review of every single chapter of each book he reads. And every single episode of each show he watches. Blew my mind.
Also...his writing has changed a little - the last two reviews are using less ALL CAPS and less internet speak "OMG" abbreviations. So I'm guessing someone may have whispered that critique into his ear. I had not one, but two moderators reading my posts. And one of the moderators has friended me.
That's how I know what I told you above - they told me.
And..I admit I've been reading his posts here and there, for more or less the same reasons others are - partly out of curiousity, partly to see how someone who hasn't seen the show before will react to it. Will they for example predict Spike's search for a soul? Will they see the same things I did or something completely different? Why do we read each others meta and reviews and reactions on tv shows and books?
The comments section is rather interesting - since a lot of the people commenting are unspoiled too and watching the series with Mark. Much like they read The Hunger Games with Mark. He's provided a place for people who have never watched the series or heard of the comics to interact without fear of being spoiled. That's a good thing.
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Whatever he earns, it's hard-earned.
Also...his writing has changed a little - the last two reviews are using less ALL CAPS and less internet speak "OMG" abbreviations. So I'm guessing someone may have whispered that critique into his ear.
Having just read his latest LotR review (The Two Towers, chapter 4), this comment is making me laugh. It's 99.5% capslock. And he thinks Treebeard is cute and likens the chapter to being drowned in puppies. Bless him. I've no idea how he keeps up that kind of excitement - it makes me tired just to read it... (Plus Treebeard? Cute? He really has very little knowledge of any kind of classical fantasy (Narnia is obviously something else he's unfamiliar with)... A walking, talking tree has just completely thrown him. I wonder what it's like to be so surprised all the time. I mean, how can you interact with things when you don't know what it's based on? *points to icon*) /random
And..I admit I've been reading his posts here and there, for more or less the same reasons others are - partly out of curiousity, partly to see how someone who hasn't seen the show before will react to it. Will they for example predict Spike's search for a soul? Will they see the same things I did or something completely different? Why do we read each others meta and reviews and reactions on tv shows and books?
*nods a lot* And he is... so diametrically opposite to me, that his reviews are very 'new'. I am all meta, and he's all emotion. It's strange.
He's provided a place for people who have never watched the series or heard of the comics to interact without fear of being spoiled. That's a good thing.
Absolutely.
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This is the main reason I read his blog when he started reading Harry Potter. And got really excited when he got Series 5 of Doctor Who- because I enjoy seeing what other people think, and it's a chance for discussion since I'm pretty much alone in that aspect IRL.
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I looked at his blog once when everyone was posting about it, but I didn't really see what the fuss was about, so I didn't go back. But I say, more power to him if he can make money from his writing. :-)
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But I'd better shut up, it's elisi's blog, and I don't want to start a kerthingy at "her place".
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I don't read the comments to Mark's posts (no time or interest), but I did notice one for Passion where - amongst bullet points - the commenter's thoughts on Angelus were 'Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr'. I... don't know what to do with that. (It's like the monopods from Voyage of the Dawntreader - 'Water is very wet, isn't it?' It's perfectly correct, but...)
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*nods* Smart guy.
I looked at his blog once when everyone was posting about it, but I didn't really see what the fuss was about, so I didn't go back.
'S like candyfloss: Instant gratification.
But I say, more power to him if he can make money from his writing. :-)
Absolutely. And the fact that what he writes is so easy to absorb is probably why he's so popular - it's reviews for everyone, not just the hardcore fans.
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(Plus, the show is... simplistic in the early seasons. A lot of stuff is only noticeable with hindsight.)
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Those didn't come out as often as his other ones, but then they're mostly him noticing things that become important later on, and realizing all the little bits he missed in first reading.
the one thing that annoys me, and please don't hate me for this, is the over the top political correctness of the mods and some of the posters.
I'm all for fighting ablism and sexism and racism and... but sometimes it gets really really exaggerated, like the constant nagging when someone dares to use the word crazy... It's just too much, as if people are so focussed on fighting (mostly innocent) word use, that they stop thinking about things that actually matter.
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I can barely keep up with the ones he's got going at the moment, so no. Although they sound nice. :)
the one thing that annoys me, and please don't hate me for this, is the over the top political correctness of the mods and some of the posters.
I don't really read the comments, but I skim now and again and saw someone asked not to use the word 'dumb', which kinda threw me.
It's just too much, as if people are so focussed on fighting (mostly innocent) word use, that they stop thinking about things that actually matter.
*nods*
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I will say that I regularly read Mark's DW posts this past season, and the comments tended to be pretty quality. Sometimes I miss forum discussions of tv (Gallifrey Base excepted, ick, ick, ick), and Mark Watches DW kind of fit in that mould.
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Oh I know! You and me both...
I will say that I regularly read Mark's DW posts this past season, and the comments tended to be pretty quality. Sometimes I miss forum discussions of tv (Gallifrey Base excepted, ick, ick, ick), and Mark Watches DW kind of fit in that mould.
Ah, but that is perfectly normal shared watch-along. The thing about Buffy is that it's not fandom watching together - it's fandom watching Mark. The discussions are 'Oh what's going to happen?', it's people with firmly set opinions arguing with foreknowledge deeply imbedded. Different kettle of fish. :)
ETA: Tried some of his DW posts and... I can't. He is my complete opposite, and while I can cope with this quite easily in his response to Buffy (because it's designed to be aimed at people's feelings), I already pointed out how weird it is with LotR (he thinks Treebeard is CUTE! I don't know how to even process that), but there I don't have a very meta-y investment (plus it's forever since I read the books, so a lot of it is helping me remember specific details). However with DW and Moffat I plain can't deal with someone filtering it through a 99% emotional POV. It's all flail (or: This doesn't make sense) and I just can't process it. I'm not really criticising it, because his response is every bit as valid as mine, plus, not only is he not analytical by nature, but (as his LotR reviews are making clear) he doesn't have the background knowledge he would need. The idea of Ents has completely bowled him over, so someone like Moffat who relies heavily on all the myths contained within culture will be even more of a mystery to someone not familiar with all this. I am trying to imagine watching Moffat without Norse mythology and Narnia and Middle Earth etc. (not to mention everything I learned from BtVS) embedded in my mind, and I'm not sure where I'd be.
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Well I've never come across this before - as in, me having this sort of reaction - so I'm all puzzled. I'd not thought that flail and squee could be offputting, but he's... too hyper. I mean, I sorta want to pat him on the head and say 'Calm down, dear' (a la Michael Winner). My children (who have been known to go 'I CAN'T WAIT FOR SATURDAY IT'S TOO EXCITING!!!' are totally chilled in comparison... And more reflective.
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