Obvious insight is obvious.

[elisi]

Torchwood was always Jack's story. (And the story of Jack's people.)

Miracle Day isn't. It's just a story that happens to have Jack in it.

(He might be pivotal to events, but so far? It's not his story. Not even close. And hey, that's fair enough, it's Rusty's show, he can do what he wants. Although it does please me how (as always) I can see him as a mirror to Buffy: 'Oh, poor little lost girl boy. She He doesn't fit in anywhere. She's He's got no one to love.')

Comments

[promethia_tenk]

Was it, though? I would have said it was Gwen's story. Although I suppose by the end of CoE it was properly Jack's.

The thing I'm finding most interesting about Jack in MD is that he hasn't made a properly Jack-like call since "have you tried detaching the head?" I mean those ugly but necessary decisions--those were always Jack's strength and he made them all the time. That was his job. And he's fundamentally a man of action, but what he's been doing on MD is a lot of lurking and investigating. Lots of drifting, very little doing.

I'll be interested to see where it goes, though. Because it could be misuse of his character, and it could just be a result of the sort of story they're telling. But it could also be really good characterization. Because Jack's got every reason to still be trigger shy, you know? His strength is that he's going at making those calls and good at moving forward, but he got burned bad. So I'm hoping we're watching a story where he's learning to get back in the saddle again.

[elisi]

Was it, though? I would have said it was Gwen's story. Although I suppose by the end of CoE it was properly Jack's.
Well I've edited the post to say 'Jack and Jack's people'. (I know that Gwen was our POV character, but I was always there for Jack. And Gwen joined a well established team and became an integral part of that, whereas the MD people are all their own.)

So I'm hoping we're watching a story where he's learning to get back in the saddle again.
That would be nice. But it's being REALLY REALLY SLOW!

[promethia_tenk]

Woooo . . . yeah, watch episode seven.

[solitary-summer.livejournal.com]

(Sorry for jumping in like that...) I think it's intentional characterisation, because one thing that surprised me about MD so far is how well they're handling the continuity from CoE, and the decision Jack had to make there almost killed him. Would have killed him, if he'd been mortal, because I don't think there's much of a doubt he'd have put a bullet through his head like Frobisher at the end, if there had been any chance of the result being permanent.

The game changed a bit in ep. 7 (sorry to be so vague, but anything more detailed would be spoilery), but in the first few episodes we've seen Jack in such a bad state of mind that he kept projecting his own death wish on Oswald, so if Vera or anyone else had died because of an order he'd given, that'd have triggered the guilt all over again, and that would have derailed the plot in directions they didn't want.

[elisi]

Would have killed him, if he'd been mortal, because I don't think there's much of a doubt he'd have put a bullet through his head like Frobisher at the end, if there had been any chance of the result being permanent.
See this is why I love HotD so very much, because it shows Jack actively trying to end it all. I always wondered about those six months, but knowing that he didn't just walk around - he tried, and failed, to find a final solution, makes much more sense of his running away to the stars when he did.

ETA: Re. Jack not having much to do in the first half, then it's not so much that he isn't in command, it's that we hardly know what's going through his mind. OK, he's projecting. But how does he feel about being mortal? Does he want to kill himself? (Well yes, but... when he was poisoned, was he upset at having been saved, when peace had finally been within his reach?)

[solitary-summer.livejournal.com]

Re. your ETA, that's also addressed in ep.7. :)

I think that even so far there's been an answer in the negative, though. The 2nd and the 6th episode did mention suicide, whether or not it was still possible, so they did in some fashion deliberately draw attention to the fact that, whatever his reasons, Jack was still alive, even if he now was the only person who still could kill himself.

[elisi]

I... suppose a negative answer is still an answer, but WHY? Although if it gets addressed in ep 7 it'll make up for a bit.

(I don't like being negative. Like I said elsewhere, I'd like this so much more if it didn't call itself Torchwood.)

[solitary-summer.livejournal.com]

IMO, because that's what Jack is like. He doesn't often share his thoughts and feelings, and very rarely unasked and unprompted. His midnight call to Gwen in ep. 3 almost shocked me with its openness, because it showed in what a bad state he still was. Gwen is the only one who might have got an answer to the question of whether he wanted to die, and she's not the kind of person who would ask that question, she's too positive and pragmatic for that. Gwen doesn't like to contemplate death, and she certainly doesn't want to contemplate the possibility of suicide, Jack's or anyone's. None of the new team members knew Jack well enough to even know this much about him, and probably wouldn't have got an answer if they'd asked.

And there's another thing — becoming mortal again after so many years, completely unexpected, is a huge thing, and Jack himself would have needed time to think about what this meant for him. It's not the same as wishing for death when you know perfectly well that it's out of your reach. If it'd happened right after CoE, he probably would have killed himself, but time has passed since then, he's started to heal, he's probably seen things that might have made look life a bit better at least from time to time, and even if he still contemplated the option, it wouldn't have been such an automatic reaction any longer.

He'll have to make yet another decision, though, when it'll come down to the question of whether to die, or become immortal again...

[elisi]

Gwen is the only one who might have got an answer to the question of whether he wanted to die, and she's not the kind of person who would ask that question
Like I said... 'Oh, poor little lost boy. He doesn't fit in anywhere. He's got no one to love.' It's a problem though when your central character is inaccessible. It was a problem in S1 and it's a much bigger problem now. (For me, at least.)

ANYWAY. I'm off on holiday! *runs away*

[solitary-summer.livejournal.com]

*wishes you a lovely holiday*!

[elisi]

Thank you! :)

[promethia_tenk]

*claps* This, all this. I just mainlined all the episodes earlier this week, so I haven't had a lot of time to think over Jack's situation, but I absolutely agree. I think it would be very strange to be getting more out of Jack at this point (and that call was shocking). He's clearly doing a lot of just going through the motions, but then, he also cares enough again to go through them.

[solitary-summer.livejournal.com]

Thank you! I agree with elisi that with Jack you have to read between the lines a lot, and that it can be frustrating sometimes, but they've established the character like that, and there's really no good way of changing this now. And personally speaking, I do enjoy this kind of less obvious, show-don't-tell storytelling, where not everything is spelled out and you do have to connect the dots sometimes...

[frenchani.livejournal.com]

I would have said it was Gwen's story too; Jack seemed mostly a bridge between Doctor Who and the new show. Yet CoE chnaged the game and it became Jack's story.

That said, given that I am not very fond of Jack, I may talk out of prejudice.

[promethia_tenk]

Lol--I like him fine, but I don't mind him being backgrounded either. I think there was definitely a long, slow transition from Jack being the *object* of TW to him being the *subject*. And I'm not quite sure which he is now.