3 CoE vid recs + more Jack meta.

[elisi]

All The Pretty Little Horses by hollywoodgrrl
Summary: Jack Harkness. Torchwood's Pied Piper.
This is most definitely Torchwood’s ‘Handlebars’. And also the most hauntingly and harrowingly beautiful illustration of Jack’s “Began to like it. And look what I became.”
~~~
Requiem – The Show Must Go On. (Moulin Rouge) by thrace_adams.
Summary: Jack Must Go On.
Jack-centric CoE vid with a definite J/I slant (but don’t let that put anyone off). The vid absolutely does the song justice!
~~~
A Blip in Time by di_br.
Summary: Ianto has a few things he needs to say before the end.
A CoE Jack/Ianto vid using Ianto’s speech from ‘The Dead Line’. Absolutely gorgeous. Bring tissues.



‘All The Pretty Little Horses’ really made me think, so here is a slightly expanded version of my feedback (with all the flailing taken out):

I very deliberately said that this vid is Torchwood’s ‘Handlebars’, rather than Jack’s, even though Jack is very much the focal point, and (to a great extent) Jack = Torchwood.

Because thinking about it, then Jack can also be seen as Torchwood's ultimate victim. They recruited him, made him into their agent, and then after a hundred years put him in charge... Looking at Suzie, we see what just a few years could do. Multiply it, and you get Jack, Torchwood's very own monster:

Ianto: You like to think you're a hero. But you're the biggest monster of all.

What all this made me think of was the very last scene in ‘Damage’ (AtS 5.11):

Spike: She's...one of us now. She's a monster.
Angel: She's an innocent victim.
Spike: So were we... once upon a time.
Angel: Once upon a time.

The thing is, that Jack’s capacity for monstrousness was hinted at right at the very beginning:

Jack: Two years of my life. No idea what I did. Your friend over there doesn't trust me. And for all I know... he's right not to.

Most of all, when it comes to CoE and Jack and the creation of monsters, these are the lines that come back to me - again from AtS:

Angel: It was art. The destruction of a human being."

We watched the destruction of Jack. And it was art.

Comments

[http://users.livejournal.com/peasant_/]

Handlebars?

I presume we are talking neither moustaches nor bicycles, so you've lost me.

[elisi]

You've not seen it? Goodness. You can find it here:

Handlebars by flummery. Summary: I'm the Doctor. Look me up.

I swear I got actual chills the first time I saw it. It quite simply *is* the Tenth Doctor.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Yup, yup and yup to most of what you say here. And huge thanks for reccing "All the pretty little horses"; one of my favourite Nick Cave songs, used perfectly.

Damn, I'm going to have to do a Nick Cave vid...

[elisi]

Yup, yup and yup to most of what you say here.
Thank you. :)

And huge thanks for reccing "All the pretty little horses"; one of my favourite Nick Cave songs, used perfectly.
It's almost worse than watching the show itself...

Damn, I'm going to have to do a Nick Cave vid...
Yay!

[zanthinegirl.livejournal.com]

We watched the destruction of Jack. And it was art.

I adore Jack, but he always was kind of dark IMO. The doctor has the distance to make moral absolutes; Jack doesn't. He's made a lot of "wrong bloody calls" or however Spike phrased it-- I'm a work of course and no time to look it up!

[elisi]

I adore Jack, but he always was kind of dark IMO.
Oh yes, which is why I like that quote right from the beginning.

The doctor has the distance to make moral absolutes; Jack doesn't.
That's a good way of phrasing it. And the Doctor isn't human, that has a lot to do with it I think.

He's made a lot of "wrong bloody calls" or however Spike phrased it-- I'm a work of course and no time to look it up!
That's pretty spot-on, and yes, that's an excellent parallel.

[hollywoodgrrl.livejournal.com]

Thanks so much for the rec! I was hoping for exactly this kind of discussion to come out of the vid. Yay! :)

[elisi]

Thanks so much for the rec!
Oh I couldn't *not* rec it - it is both gorgeously made *and* extremely clever.

I was hoping for exactly this kind of discussion to come out of the vid. Yay! :)
There are times I dearly wished I could vid, because it's possible to say so much just with images that can't be phrased properly with words. kraken_wakes and I also discussed it in her post here. (If I *could* vid, I'd make a CoE one to 'Jars of Clay's Hero. Song on Youtube here, lyrics here...)

[hollywoodgrrl.livejournal.com]

I enjoyed reading you guys's convo, especially the sonnet. Thanks for linking me. :)

There are times I dearly wished I could vid, because it's possible to say so much just with images that can't be phrased properly with words.
You could always learn. Every vidder was once not a vidder. And it's thoughts like your that certainly drove me to pick it up. ;)

[elisi]

I enjoyed reading you guys's convo, especially the sonnet. Thanks for linking me. :)
My pleasure! CoE has inspired so many interesting conversations (and vids!) it's wonderful.

You could always learn.
True... but I barely have time for writing (and I have a gazillion fics all lined up) so I don't know when I'd actually get around to it. I'll just have to admire other people's work!

[solitary-summer.livejournal.com]

Because thinking about it, then Jack can also be seen as Torchwood's ultimate victim. They recruited him, made him into their agent, and then after a hundred years put him in charge... Looking at Suzie, we see what just a few years could do. Multiply it, and you get Jack, Torchwood's very own monster:

That's very well put.

I've been trying to put this into words since Fragments (and again after Asylum), how Jack managed to (mentally) survive for a century in Torchwood partly by never entirely stopping to see himself as their victim (which I think comes out in episodes like Meat and Reset, when he suddenly completely identifies with the aliens, once they're the helpless victims of someone else's exploitation), even while he worked for them, found people he liked or even loved there, and in the end they became the closest thing to a family he had in all this time; even while he completely internalised their aims and methods to a level I don't think he really was aware of, or chose to ignore, until CoE.

[elisi]

That's very well put.
Thank you. :)

how Jack managed to (mentally) survive for a century in Torchwood partly by never entirely stopping to see himself as their victim
That is very true, I think. I remember watching 'Fragments' and suddenly *so* many things clicked into place re. Jack, and why he was the way he was.

which I think comes out in episodes like Meat and Reset, when he suddenly completely identifies with the aliens, once they're the helpless victims of someone else's exploitation
Ooooh yes. It's an odd thing, but one that I've used in fic to great effect. In a lot of ways he's like the Doctor (in The Christmas Invasion) "But they were leaving!" - he will defend Earth, and human kind, but he never sees himself as one of them.

even while he completely internalised their aims and methods to a level I don't think he really was aware of, or chose to ignore, until CoE.
Hmmm. You know, I think another thing is that Torchwood was probably not entirely unlike the Time Agency, so that he felt 'at home' even though he might not be comfortable. Oh! That reminds me of this fic Team Building - Reverse The Polarity Remix, the single best 'Jack finds his team' story I've ever read. The author, when replying to my comment, said 'In a lot of ways, Suzie reminds me of John Hart, and I think that's subconsciously why Jack chose her. He was looking for a partner, then, and he went for what was familiar.' which sort of made my jaw drop because of course!

(But I have to go get some breakfast - I could spend whole *days* on LJ if I wasn't careful... And didn't have a family! *g*)

[solitary-summer.livejournal.com]

I remember watching 'Fragments' and suddenly *so* many things clicked into place re. Jack, and why he was the way he was.

Yes!! I thought I was the only one who saw it like that! Not so much during S1, but in S2 I never quite understood what made Jack tick or how all the separate aspects of his character came together; Fragments was the missing piece that suddenly made sense of the whole.

You know, I think another thing is that Torchwood was probably not entirely unlike the Time Agency, so that he felt 'at home' even though he might not be comfortable.

You're right, and I phrased it badly. What I meant was the step from thinking of himself on some level as the (mostly) good guy in (mostly) bad organisation he'd been (mostly) forced to join against his will, to realising that the century spent there left its traces.

[elisi]

Yes!! I thought I was the only one who saw it like that!
*grins* I remember it specifically because I was at the time busy plotting my Jack-is-The-Immortal fic ('The Immortal' from TGiQ - Angel's 'archnemisis' and Buffy's new boyfriend!), and trying to fill in that missing century, and wondering how and when and *why* Jack became involved with Torchwood, and how I could fit my story in around that were all v. important. And then the show went and gave me all the answers I could want and more besides. Both S1 and S2 made so much more sense. :)

You're right, and I phrased it badly.
And I replied way too early in the morning!

What I meant was the step from thinking of himself on some level as the (mostly) good guy in (mostly) bad organisation he'd been (mostly) forced to join against his will, to realising that the century spent there left its traces.
*nods* Yes, very much so - and that last scene, where he takes responsibility for everything shows that very clearly.