Some random S7 Spuffy thoughts

[elisi]

Did some Buffy watching tonight... my wonderful husband took the children round to the grandparents’ house, and then once there decided that they might as well stay there for tea. Cue hours of blissful peace for me. :)

Oh, and I’ve decided that my husband will from now on be known as Mr Darcy... this was lillianmorgan’s suggestion after seeing our wedding photos, and it fits rather well. He’s wonderful, but when it comes to fandom stuff he gets rather snooty, so ‘Mr Darcy’ will serve very well!

Anyway... on to the scattered thoughts...



Watched ‘Sleeper’ which is one of those near-perfect episodes that I just never tire of. Not much to say really, except that this marks the turning point Spuffy-wise. Up until this episode Buffy is very stand off-ish. It takes her a good while to tell anyone about Spike’s soul and to get him out of the basement. And whereas some just take this as proof that she’s a cold hearted bitch, I think this is quite simply because she’s scared. When it comes to Spike it was always the lack of a soul that prevented her from loving him, from treating him properly. It was her standard response to any suggestions that it could ever work. And then suddenly he takes that excuse away. There is no reason why she shouldn’t be able to love him or be with him, and I think she’s terrified. Because it could all very suddenly be very real.
So until Sleeper she keeps her distance and barely even talks to him. Until she finds out that he might be killing again. The last words of the episode are:
Buffy: “I have to get close to Spike.”

Now I also watched the Spuffy bits of ‘Potential’ and ‘The Killer In Me’. In ‘Potential’ the attraction between Buffy and Spike is very obvious (and is made very obvious): the way she tries to look at his injuries and the Potentials thinking it’s ‘hot’, the way she tries to convince herself that it’s ‘totally over’ when she’s supposed to be counselling Amanda, that line about Spike’s crypt being ‘comfy’... her mind is so going places it shouldn’t.

In ‘The Killer In Me’ on the other hand, she’s caring for Spike. The scene where he’s lying on the cot, and they’re trying to figure out what to do... it has to be one of the sweetest moments in the whole of the season. *sigh* and *sniff*

Also watched the very beginning and end of ‘First Date’, and what always strikes me is the end of the fight - Buffy kills the demon and then rushes to Spike’s side. Not Xander, who was the one she came to save and who got stabbed. No she goes to Spike first, and only after making sure that he’s ok does she worry about Xander. And Wood picks up on this straight away! That little triangle of looks at the end...

Not to mention that Buffy actually admits to needing Spike later on - and this of course refers back to the beginning of the episode, and Buffy’s conversation with Giles. Now, I love their talk - it starts out being about Buffy’s decision to remove the chip, but very quickly turns into a discussion about Buffy and Spike and their relationship. And Giles very obviously thinks that this is Angel all over again... Buffy is making decisions with her heart and not her mind (as she admits to Spike). And my favourite line? “I want more for you.” Giles very obviously sees the relationship as a long-term one, and in this case there is no curse to stop Buffy from committing to something in the future. The seeds for LMPTM are planted right here!

Basically I just love the quitness of S7 Spuffy - it's all in the looks and the touches and the small things. The way Buffy always turns to Spike first... the way they finish each other's sentences... I'm just a sappy, romantic shipper. :)

Ok, will stop now and go downstairs to be snuggle with Mr Darcy. Sorry about spelling mistakes etc, but this was written very quickly and mostly for my own benefit.

Comments

[calturner.livejournal.com]

I've been rewatching S7 this week, and your thoughts are so very similar to mine. I love S7 Spuffy. After the passion and violence of S6 (which I also love, but in a different way), this is beautiful to watch. I love the closeness between them.

Basically I just love the quitness of S7 Spuffy - it's all in the looks and the touches and the small things. The way Buffy always turns to Spike first... the way they finish each other's sentences... I'm just a sappy, romantic shipper. :)

Oh, me too! This is exactly what I love about it. *sigh*

[elisi]

It's wonderful to share the Spuffy love! :) What did I do before I discovered LJ?

[pfeifferpack.livejournal.com]

Oh yes, S7 and the dreams of what S8 could have been! I started to realize they were going to have Buffy actually own her feelings before she rescued Spike (and from the way Xander looked at her, he figured it out too). She barely slept and was single minded, kept saying they had to rescue Spike. She didn't talk about the need vanquish the enemy or gather the potentials...it was all about rescuing Spike. That was clearly her priority and the FE even snapped when, as Eve, it said, 'Isn't that the vampire that's been killin again?', as if to remind her and the scoobies why she should forget Spike.

After she got him back, her every look and avery gesture screamed LOVE. She didn't (in true Buffy style) verbalize, until too late.

Now Spike was always good at "reading" people, especially Buffy. He knew in the previous season that Buffy had more feelings than she was willing to express or acknowledge. That got him in trouble. He acted (in Seeing Red) on what he perceived, not what she said. After getting the soul (and the tremendous guilt about SR that he had even before the soul), he no longer was willing/able to trust what he saw. He relied on what she said. She never said the "I love you" until the end, so he rejected what was clearly obvious to everyone...she was head over heels in love the whole season.

It took no genius to see, and Buffy had to have admitted it to herself at least ("Why does everyone think I'm STILL in love with Spike"...note Willow doesn't ask "when were you in love with him before?") everyone "got it" except Spike. He was once burned (SR) twice shy.

I think if there had been a season 8 (and remember, SMG kept the door open for that possibility unti mid season) we would have seen a maturing Buffy and wonderful cookie eating.....sigh

Kathleen

[elisi]

A lot of good points, but I think that Spike could see what Buffy was feeling. I'm with the_royal_anna - the "No, you don't" is an instruction! (See this post). But that is not to say that a season 8 wouldn't have been wonderful! *sigh*

[pfeifferpack.livejournal.com]

I'm torn. I can see and be swayed to the Royal Anna's view. There are plenty of arguments for it. But, Spike not calling or going to Buffy when he returned from dust makes more sense if he was not sure of her feelings IMHO. I suppose it could play either way. He didn't know he'd be returning when he offered himself to close the hellmouth and urging Buffy to live is in character.

Kathleen

[avrelia.livejournal.com]

There are so many great little moments there, that even reading about them gives me the happy. :)

Each episode is a big step for Spike and Buffy there – and one can talk about it forever. There is a reason why we are still here, almost two years after the show is over, right?

I kind of like the tiny moment in Showtime – when Buffy is talking about saving Spike, and Eve!Evil is (reasonably) asking why, and Buffy stops – and then – this look on Xander’s face, where he watches Buffy and understands what she cannot say, - and is more or less ok with it, too.

And Potential had so many fun moments! But for me it is not so much how Buffy cares, but that she doesn’t care what the potential or whoever would think of her and Spike, and how amazingly they work together – fighting or coaching babyslayers.

[elisi]

There is a reason why we are still here, almost two years after the show is over, right?
Oh, yes! Personally I think that the Buffy and Spike story is probably the best love-story ever to have been on tv.

And now I must go re-watch Showtime again! (Thank you for giving me an excuse!)

And Potential is an excellent episode - I even like the Dawn story-line! :)

[azdak.livejournal.com]

It takes her a good while to tell anyone about Spike’s soul and to get him out of the basement. And whereas some just take this as proof that she’s a cold hearted bitch, I think this is quite simply because she’s scared. When it comes to Spike it was always the lack of a soul that prevented her from loving him, from treating him properly. It was her standard response to any suggestions that it could ever work. And then suddenly he takes that excuse away. There is no reason why she shouldn’t be able to love him or be with him, and I think she’s terrified. Because it could all very suddenly be very real.


I think the fact that she leaves him in the basement for so long has more to do with AR issues than fear of what his soul means. Both at the story level and in Buffy's mind, he can't be allowed to get away with that attack without consequences. I think that's also why she gets so impatient with his madness, because it would be so much easier to be able to hate him, but she can't really do that when he's so obviously broken. She finds out he's got a soul straight away, but it isn't until he puts himself at risk to save Cassie that she decides he can't just be left in the basement, that she has some kind of responsibility for him. I agree that Sleeper is the great turning point, though. And I think it's touching how concerned *Xander* is as well - he could easily take this opportunity to get in a few digs about how she's saddled him with a serial killer, but no, he's serious and concerned and not at all quick to judge.

[swsa.livejournal.com]

I agree. The AR is huge. And in early S7 I really do get a sense that Buffy is working at keeping that anger, because she deserves to be angry. But I do think elisi has a point as well, and that there is a great deal of turmoil over the soul. She's shaken at the end of BY, and we later find out that she freaked out and ran. So I do think there's evidence that her inability to cope with that played a role in her avoiding him, just as her anger over S6 did.

[azdak.livejournal.com]

Oh, absolutely. And I think the soul (and the fact that he went and got it *for her*) plays a huge part in her responses in Sleeper. She feels responsible for him because she *is* responsible for him, because she helped create this new creature, this amazing anomaly. But it isn't until he's shown that the soul actually works, that it does more than make him gibber with guilt, that she feels obligated to help him. I was really taking issue with the implication that the minute he gets his soul back, she starts to worry that this means she has no more excuses for not loving him - I think she worries about a lot of other things first before she gets close to that point!

[curiouswombat.livejournal.com]

Mr. Darcy seems good to me!

[elisi]

Well, Speakr just proved to everyone yesterday what a wonderful husband he is, so I felt I needed to do something! ;)

[bogwitch.livejournal.com]

Nice to see I'm not the only one who skips to the good bits.

[elisi]

I very rarely get the opportunity to watch all on my own, so I just indulged! :)

[http://users.livejournal.com/twilight__/]

Hello...I have been lingering in your journal lately. You & I seem to be sailing on the same ship with all of the storm tossed waves & beautiful scenery (going with boldly romantic theme of your post here). You have expressed many of my thoughts & feelings about Buffy & Spike...& BtVS in general in your last few posts. I have almost commented more than once. This post is the one that has urged me to actually comment. Your post reveals exactly the romance that I saw evolving between Buffy & Spike during Season 7. The moments that you point out are the ones pivotal to me also. You even pointed out moments that I missed. Thank you.

I really have nothing concrete to add except that it seems to me that the ability of Buffy & Spike to communicate through looks shows up as early as Season 2. I just watched Becoming I & II this last weekend. It appears to me that there is some kind of silent communication going on in the looks that Buffy & Spike share in Becoming II especially the looks exchanged on her porch right before she tells her mother that she is Buffy, The Vampire Slayer. Where am I going with this? Well, guess it is that I think Buffy & Spike have always communicated more with looks & actions so the lack of spoken words & feelings in Season 7 is not a weakness to me. I see it as more of an added depth to their story. It is gives the looks they share, their gestures & their actions so much more meaning to me.

Just another sappy romantic shipper here too...& I like us that way. Thanks for the chance to read your posts & the comments that are made about them. They have given me much to think about as I linger around LJ.

[elisi]

How wonderful to see you! *waves* I always get terribly excited when I find out that I have lurkers. Although having had a look at your LJ I'd like to friend you - I like fellow S7 lovers! :)

About your points about Buffy and Spike's communication skills... it remembered an analysis of Becoming II. This is from The Soulful Spike Society, in the 'Spikecentricity' reviews by Spring Summers (which I'm only halfway through reading, they're an indulgence!). Anyway, this is what she says about Buffy and Spike:

THERE IS SUCCESSFUL, STRAIGHTFORWARD COMMUNICATION: This happens for the most part between Spike & Buffy. The scenes between them are packed with interesting dialogue and foreshadowing, but for now, let’s stick with looking at the communication aspects. The season-long parallels drawn between the dynamic duo are reinforced when Whistler tells Buffy: "You’re all you’ve got" and the very next scene features Spike telling Buffy, "I’m all you’ve got." They are each other’s counterparts, and that pays off in the clinch:
* Spike knows exactly how to get past Buffy’s initial reluctance to listen: "He’s got your Watcher. Right now, he’s probably torturing him."
* Buffy has Spike’s number immediately: "You want my help because your girlfriend’s a big ‘ho’?" They literally pull no punches.
* All Buffy has to do is clear her throat, and Spike realizes he shouldn’t kill the cop if he wants Buffy’s help. Later, all she has to do is look at him, and he understands that Kendra’s death was not a good thing "from her perspective."
* Spike catches on instantly to what is happening between Buffy and Joyce ("What? Your mother doesn’t know?"), and they lie to Joyce in tandem.
* Though they have never fought as a team before, they confront and dispatch Angel’s vampire lackey like a well-oiled machine. Wham, bam - I’ll be damned. They’ve got rhythm.
* In a style we’ll see repeated, they quickly negotiate the terms of their agreement, reaching simultaneous satisfaction in no time flat. No need for any fancy pre-show, they just smack each other around a few times, and then get right down to the nuts and bolts.

This is one of the things I love about Spuffy, and something that continues all through the later seasons, culminating in their respective speeches to each other (awmphere).

Just another sappy romantic shipper here too...& I like us that way. Me too! :)

[lillianmorgan.livejournal.com]

I really enjoy your posts - it gives a lot to contemplate, and you always catch things that I miss.
I think "Sleeper" is well-liked across the board - the potential between them really seems to be strong and coherent. And the fact that he calls her from the Bronze? I'm a puddle just there.
Just a question: what did you think about in "The Killer in Me" when Spike's writhing on the floor in pain from the chip, everyone's just discovered Willow/Warren and it appears as though they're ignoring him? Do you think it's down on purpose?
Maybe a complete rewatch of S7 is in order?
If he's Mr Darcy, you ARE Elisabeth - willful, strong, purposeful and intelligent. And likes long walks too! :) It's all good!

[elisi]

Re. 'The Killer In Me'... I really don't know. I'll have to watch with the commentary on. What I did notice however, was that as soon as Buffy realised that Spike was in pain again, her attention turns for Willow to him. Willow - who's just somehow magically turned into the man she murdered - says she'll sort herself out, and Buffy happily agrees and goes off to look after Spike. It is very obvious where her priorities and focus are!

And you just make me blush with all your compliments... I'm just me really and not at all as forceful as 'Lizzie' (thankfully no one has ever called me that!).

[zimshan.livejournal.com]

And then suddenly he takes that excuse away. There is no reason why she shouldn’t be able to love him or be with him, and I think she’s terrified. Because it could all very suddenly be very real.

Many people have scorned S7 on the fact that the middle half came apart. But I love these episodes for the little things...for the nicely layed out B plots that continued throughout to develop the characters more and more. One of the most interesting, IMO, is watching Buffy's progression in these middle eppies. And one progression she faced was her dealing with Spike's soul, a view which you hit right on...she is terrified but it's not until these episodes that she starts to deal with it, in any way shape or form. It's here that she starts to treat him as a human and not as a thing.

And Giles very obviously thinks that this is Angel all over again... Buffy is making decisions with her heart and not her mind (as she admits to Spike). And my favourite line? “I want more for you.”....The seeds for LMPTM are planted right here!

Another amazing progression that happens in these episodes is with the return of Giles. Many people also cited that they hated how out of character Giles became in these episodes, but to me, it stays very consistant with the history of the show. It's not stagnant, letting a character always think the same way...it's marks of progression from one point in the show to the other and I have always loved it. Giles "betrayal", as some people misleadingly call it, was not a left field move and this scene in FD very nicely ties his fears and his LMPTM decision to the history of the show.

[elisi]

watching Buffy's progression in these middle eppies
That's it... especially after Spike is kidnapped and she begins to understand just how much he means to her and how much she needs him.

It's here that she starts to treat him as a human and not as a thing.
She's just so gentle... the way she looks after him is the exact opposite of S6.

Apart from anything else, I think Giles is also just very, very worried. The Council (and a lot of his former collegues) gets blown up, and he has to gather all these potentials from all around the world and there is a big apocalypse around the corner that they have no idea how to stop! His little speech at the end of 'First Date' is brutal, but it showcases very well his frame of mind. And people who think him out of character have obviously forgotten 'The Gift':
BUFFY: (whirls back) No! No, you don't understand. We are not talking about this.
GILES: (jumps up from the table, yells) Yes, we bloody well are!
He was ready to kill Dawn then - so why he should have a problem with killing Spike 2 years later I've never understood. It's perfectly in character.

[zanthinegirl.livejournal.com]

What struck me while watching the season 7 DVDs was how well it all flowed together. I remember being a little irritated at the time by what seemed to me to be choppy storytelling; but viewing all the episodes one after the other they worked much better. I agree re: Spike and Buffy's growing relationship. My roommate at the time was in the process of being converted to the wonder of BTVS, and hadn't seen much of anything beyond the first season. We usually watched season 7 episodes together, and i was always pointing out Spuffy moments-- she started out leaning BA. I think she'd pretty much moved to the light by the end of the series; she took the big Angel kiss very hard!

[elisi]

Since S7 is very much one long story, it makes sense that it'd work better when watched it 'all in one go'. I just wish I had better time...

[zimshan.livejournal.com]

Although alot of people have said that S3 flowed the best, IMO no season flowed as nicely as S7. The character progression was just amazing, and I loved every minute of it. I think it was Joss who said in one of the commentaries that the whole season was like one long series finale. So lucky that he got a chance to do something like that...to bad the same was able to be done in Angel...

[marsterslady.livejournal.com]

... I'm just a sappy, romantic shipper. :)

I am too. :) It was lovely to read your thoughts. I feel completely happy right now, and it's thanks to you. Thank you!

Mr. Darcy .. did you share wedding pics while I was away?

::goes to look::

[elisi]

I feel completely happy right now, and it's thanks to you.

Oh, I'm so pleased! :) And if you're in the mood for more Spuffy, I started writing a post-NFA Spuffy fic. Only up to chapter 3 so far (It's called 'Maybe Someday' and you can find it in my memories if you're interested and have the time).

Will go look at the pictures of your new house now, I've been meaning to for ages, I've just been too busy! :)