elisi | Some random S7 Spuffy thoughts

Did some Buffy watching tonight... my wonderful husband took the children round to the grandparents’ house, and then once there decided that they might as well stay there for tea. Cue hours of blissful peace for me. :)

Oh, and I’ve decided that my husband will from now on be known as Mr Darcy... this was

lillianmorgan’s suggestion after seeing our wedding photos, and it fits rather well. He’s wonderful, but when it comes to fandom stuff he gets rather snooty, so ‘Mr Darcy’ will serve very well!

Anyway... on to the scattered thoughts...

Watched ‘Sleeper’ which is one of those near-perfect episodes that I just never tire of. Not much to say really, except that this marks the turning point Spuffy-wise. Up until this episode Buffy is very stand off-ish. It takes her a good while to tell anyone about Spike’s soul and to get him out of the basement. And whereas some just take this as proof that she’s a cold hearted bitch, I think this is quite simply because she’s scared. When it comes to Spike it was always the lack of a soul that prevented her from loving him, from treating him properly. It was her standard response to any suggestions that it could ever work. And then suddenly he takes that excuse away. There is no reason why she shouldn’t be able to love him or be with him, and I think she’s terrified. Because it could all very suddenly be very real.
So until Sleeper she keeps her distance and barely even talks to him. Until she finds out that he might be killing again. The last words of the episode are:
Buffy: “I have to get close to Spike.”

Now I also watched the Spuffy bits of ‘Potential’ and ‘The Killer In Me’. In ‘Potential’ the attraction between Buffy and Spike is very obvious (and is made very obvious): the way she tries to look at his injuries and the Potentials thinking it’s ‘hot’, the way she tries to convince herself that it’s ‘totally over’ when she’s supposed to be counselling Amanda, that line about Spike’s crypt being ‘comfy’... her mind is so going places it shouldn’t.

In ‘The Killer In Me’ on the other hand, she’s caring for Spike. The scene where he’s lying on the cot, and they’re trying to figure out what to do... it has to be one of the sweetest moments in the whole of the season. *sigh* and *sniff*

Also watched the very beginning and end of ‘First Date’, and what always strikes me is the end of the fight - Buffy kills the demon and then rushes to Spike’s side. Not Xander, who was the one she came to save and who got stabbed. No she goes to Spike first, and only after making sure that he’s ok does she worry about Xander. And Wood picks up on this straight away! That little triangle of looks at the end...

Not to mention that Buffy actually admits to needing Spike later on - and this of course refers back to the beginning of the episode, and Buffy’s conversation with Giles. Now, I love their talk - it starts out being about Buffy’s decision to remove the chip, but very quickly turns into a discussion about Buffy and Spike and their relationship. And Giles very obviously thinks that this is Angel all over again... Buffy is making decisions with her heart and not her mind (as she admits to Spike). And my favourite line? “I want more for you.” Giles very obviously sees the relationship as a long-term one, and in this case there is no curse to stop Buffy from committing to something in the future. The seeds for LMPTM are planted right here!

Basically I just love the quitness of S7 Spuffy - it's all in the looks and the touches and the small things. The way Buffy always turns to Spike first... the way they finish each other's sentences... I'm just a sappy, romantic shipper. :)

Ok, will stop now and go downstairs to be snuggle with Mr Darcy. Sorry about spelling mistakes etc, but this was written very quickly and mostly for my own benefit.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

It takes her a good while to tell anyone about Spike’s soul and to get him out of the basement. And whereas some just take this as proof that she’s a cold hearted bitch, I think this is quite simply because she’s scared. When it comes to Spike it was always the lack of a soul that prevented her from loving him, from treating him properly. It was her standard response to any suggestions that it could ever work. And then suddenly he takes that excuse away. There is no reason why she shouldn’t be able to love him or be with him, and I think she’s terrified. Because it could all very suddenly be very real.

I think the fact that she leaves him in the basement for so long has more to do with AR issues than fear of what his soul means. Both at the story level and in Buffy's mind, he can't be allowed to get away with that attack without consequences. I think that's also why she gets so impatient with his madness, because it would be so much easier to be able to hate him, but she can't really do that when he's so obviously broken. She finds out he's got a soul straight away, but it isn't until he puts himself at risk to save Cassie that she decides he can't just be left in the basement, that she has some kind of responsibility for him. I agree that Sleeper is the great turning point, though. And I think it's touching how concerned *Xander* is as well - he could easily take this opportunity to get in a few digs about how she's saddled him with a serial killer, but no, he's serious and concerned and not at all quick to judge.

I agree. The AR is huge. And in early S7 I really do get a sense that Buffy is working at keeping that anger, because she deserves to be angry. But I do think elisi has a point as well, and that there is a great deal of turmoil over the soul. She's shaken at the end of BY, and we later find out that she freaked out and ran. So I do think there's evidence that her inability to cope with that played a role in her avoiding him, just as her anger over S6 did.

Oh, absolutely. And I think the soul (and the fact that he went and got it *for her*) plays a huge part in her responses in Sleeper. She feels responsible for him because she *is* responsible for him, because she helped create this new creature, this amazing anomaly. But it isn't until he's shown that the soul actually works, that it does more than make him gibber with guilt, that she feels obligated to help him. I was really taking issue with the implication that the minute he gets his soul back, she starts to worry that this means she has no more excuses for not loving him - I think she worries about a lot of other things first before she gets close to that point!

I love waking up and discovering discussions in my LJ. :)

But it isn't until he's shown that the soul actually works, that it does more than make him gibber with guilt, that she feels obligated to help him
That is an excellent point, and I think you're definitely right. She even asks him to show her (in 'Help' I think).

I think she worries about a lot of other things first before she gets close to that point!
And that's another good point! As you pointed out, the AR is a huge thing to 'get over' (not sure that's the right term)... I know a lot people think that she should just have forgiven him straight away when she found out about the soul, but it's not that easy (also

spikewriter has shown very well in her 'Seven Years' that rushing things leads to no good!). And her relationship with Spike was very, very different from what she had with Angel, whom she helped straight away (and of course he was also dangerous). With Spike things were always more complicated.

Oh, absolutely. I think another key point is that Buffy feels she has no one to talk to about these things...about the AR, about Spike's soul and all of that mixed up with what's happening then. She thinks they'll judge her and she has every reason to think so. Enter Holden Knox.

And to add to it all, the first 6 eps happen rapid-fire. I've seen many references to how long she left Spike in the basement, when it wasn't long at all--3 weeks, tops, and a few days of that she believed him to be a one of those spirits. So I doubt she's really had a lot of time, or willingness, to really figure it all out, as witnessed in Him when she tries to explain things to Dawn.

I don't think being able to love him because of the soul had much to do with because, like you, I believe she already did.

What a lot of good points!

she has no one to talk to about these things.[...] Enter Holden Knox.
That is very important. Thanks for pointing it out.

how long she left Spike in the basement, when it wasn't long at all--3 weeks, tops
Exactly... "I feel for him" is neither here nor there. She feels something, she just doesn't know what. And is scared to find out.

Ack! I meant Holden Webster. Sheesh. I know the character names, I swear!!

And yeah, she's scared. It really bothers me when people get down on Buffy because she doesn't have it all figured out. Why would she? She's only 21. I mean, Spike was a hundred and something and it took a dream for him to figure it out.

Why would she? She's only 21. I mean, Spike was a hundred and something and it took a dream for him to figure it out.

Heee! That's a lovely way of putting it. And personally I really feel for Buffy - if I was in her situation I'd be completely confused too!

Adding a bit of RL experience to this, I actually got married when I was only 20. But - I come from an extremely stable and loving home, and so does my husband. We also knew that we agreed on the most important issues (religion, money, children etc.) and shared a lot of common interests. If any of those factors had been different, we might have waited a lot longer than a year before we got married. /TMI

Some random S7 Spuffy thoughts

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject