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Why I’m looking forward to S6.
Now this isn’t really about the fact that S8 appears to be crack!fic, what with the ridiculous ret-cons, or that it’ll be Bryan Lynch (yay!) penning S6. OK, so it’s a bit of that, I admit I am shallow. (I’m also currently praying that Franco Urro will do the artwork. Because I really, really like his style!)
But - I’ve been thinking about endings. I’ll never accept the comics as canon, but pre-comics I think that if I could have chosen the ending to mess with, I’d have gone with ‘Chosen’. Because NFA is just so utterly, utterly perfect. But having to face Joss messing with *both*, I’ve been forced to re-examine my feelings, and I’m more upset about S8 - and more excited about S6. There are several reasons for this:
1) Finished vs cancelled.
There were never going to be more than 7 seasons of Buffy. They knew right from the start of S7 that it was the last one (the parade of Big Bads in ‘Lessons’ is a good indicator). It went out on a high, and Joss admitted to being totally out of ideas.
There *was* going to be a S6! They planned for it right from the beginning and had to scramble to tie up all the lose ends when the show was cancelled. And I’m curious to see what we might have got... [cries for lost show and curses the WB]
2) Ret-cons.
I’m sorry, but the ones in s8 (or at least that particular one) just make my head implode. It says ‘f*ck continuity’ and undermines a brilliant moment. (And no, I don’t think it’s worth it!)
Now s6... the obvious one would be to bring back Wes. I doubt this could be done without undermining his death - but! He was only killed because the show was cancelled - he was sacrificed on the altar of ‘make the audience bawl its eyes out’. In a world where the show wasn’t cancelled he would have survived - they had stuff planned out for him in S6. So if they ret-con him... I’ll understand why.
3) The endings.
I know I’ve gone on about this at length, but what I love about the end of ‘Chosen’ is that Buffy is *free*! In theory she can do whatever she wants, and - I’ve come to realise - this is something infinitely precious. That moment at the edge of the Hellmouth is where canon stops. The trails fanning out from there head off in so many directions that to choose just one narrative is a huge, *vast* reduction in scope. As I said above, I’ve realised that the ending of ‘Chosen’ is more important to me than NFA - because Buffy is human, and because she - for the first time since she was called - has her whole life in front of her. I don’t want that messing with. (Especially not for the sake of sending her to a Scottish castle with Giant!Dawn, Suave!Xander, Super!Willow etc...)
Now the *point* of ‘Not Fade Away’ is that it is Angel’s destiny to fight:
The point of Angel was always that the fight never ends. He'll always fight. It's an eternity of fighting. You can't ever win but the fight is worth fighting.
David Fury
His path from the alley only leads to more battles. So the fact that we’ll get another story about Angel fighting pleases me. (Oh and given the writer, I sincerely doubt that Spike will be 'following Angel around like a puppy dog'. Bryan Lynch's Spike is a BDH and *very* independent!)
4) Shipping.
A lot of people aren’t interested in s6, because it’ll just (needlessly they think) delay Spike going to Buffy. (Or of course they’re just not interested in AtS full stop, which I can’t help them with, sadly). Now personally I think he made his choice in ‘Harm’s Way’ (for whatever reasons), and unless a reason comes along for him to seek Buffy out - or they accidentally cross paths - he’s not thinking in terms of ‘once this is over I’ll go to Buffy’. Anyway, what I’ve come to realise (and I feel like such a traitor) is that I love the characters above the ships. I adore Spuffy with all my heart, but if Spike stayed with Angel and never found his way back to Buffy, and she settled down with someone new and lived a happy life I’d be OK with that. Or if Spike and Angel split up and he went off on his own adventures I’d love that too (thank you Spike:Asylum!). I’m easy - as long as the stories are good, I’m happy to go almost everywhere, ships or no ships. For me that’s one of the joys of the open-endedness of the way the shows finished. Does that make me weird?
Actually re. Spike and being on his own - I don’t see Spike not going to Buffy as him ‘moving on’ per se. He will always love her and that’ll never change, even if he thinks he hasn’t got a shot at a proper future with her. But what he *does* do, I think, is adopt her outlook, her MO: ‘The mission is what matters.’
And that’s as many thoughts as I have room for today...
But - I’ve been thinking about endings. I’ll never accept the comics as canon, but pre-comics I think that if I could have chosen the ending to mess with, I’d have gone with ‘Chosen’. Because NFA is just so utterly, utterly perfect. But having to face Joss messing with *both*, I’ve been forced to re-examine my feelings, and I’m more upset about S8 - and more excited about S6. There are several reasons for this:
1) Finished vs cancelled.
There were never going to be more than 7 seasons of Buffy. They knew right from the start of S7 that it was the last one (the parade of Big Bads in ‘Lessons’ is a good indicator). It went out on a high, and Joss admitted to being totally out of ideas.
There *was* going to be a S6! They planned for it right from the beginning and had to scramble to tie up all the lose ends when the show was cancelled. And I’m curious to see what we might have got... [cries for lost show and curses the WB]
2) Ret-cons.
I’m sorry, but the ones in s8 (or at least that particular one) just make my head implode. It says ‘f*ck continuity’ and undermines a brilliant moment. (And no, I don’t think it’s worth it!)
Now s6... the obvious one would be to bring back Wes. I doubt this could be done without undermining his death - but! He was only killed because the show was cancelled - he was sacrificed on the altar of ‘make the audience bawl its eyes out’. In a world where the show wasn’t cancelled he would have survived - they had stuff planned out for him in S6. So if they ret-con him... I’ll understand why.
3) The endings.
I know I’ve gone on about this at length, but what I love about the end of ‘Chosen’ is that Buffy is *free*! In theory she can do whatever she wants, and - I’ve come to realise - this is something infinitely precious. That moment at the edge of the Hellmouth is where canon stops. The trails fanning out from there head off in so many directions that to choose just one narrative is a huge, *vast* reduction in scope. As I said above, I’ve realised that the ending of ‘Chosen’ is more important to me than NFA - because Buffy is human, and because she - for the first time since she was called - has her whole life in front of her. I don’t want that messing with. (Especially not for the sake of sending her to a Scottish castle with Giant!Dawn, Suave!Xander, Super!Willow etc...)
Now the *point* of ‘Not Fade Away’ is that it is Angel’s destiny to fight:
The point of Angel was always that the fight never ends. He'll always fight. It's an eternity of fighting. You can't ever win but the fight is worth fighting.
David Fury
His path from the alley only leads to more battles. So the fact that we’ll get another story about Angel fighting pleases me. (Oh and given the writer, I sincerely doubt that Spike will be 'following Angel around like a puppy dog'. Bryan Lynch's Spike is a BDH and *very* independent!)
4) Shipping.
A lot of people aren’t interested in s6, because it’ll just (needlessly they think) delay Spike going to Buffy. (Or of course they’re just not interested in AtS full stop, which I can’t help them with, sadly). Now personally I think he made his choice in ‘Harm’s Way’ (for whatever reasons), and unless a reason comes along for him to seek Buffy out - or they accidentally cross paths - he’s not thinking in terms of ‘once this is over I’ll go to Buffy’. Anyway, what I’ve come to realise (and I feel like such a traitor) is that I love the characters above the ships. I adore Spuffy with all my heart, but if Spike stayed with Angel and never found his way back to Buffy, and she settled down with someone new and lived a happy life I’d be OK with that. Or if Spike and Angel split up and he went off on his own adventures I’d love that too (thank you Spike:Asylum!). I’m easy - as long as the stories are good, I’m happy to go almost everywhere, ships or no ships. For me that’s one of the joys of the open-endedness of the way the shows finished. Does that make me weird?
Actually re. Spike and being on his own - I don’t see Spike not going to Buffy as him ‘moving on’ per se. He will always love her and that’ll never change, even if he thinks he hasn’t got a shot at a proper future with her. But what he *does* do, I think, is adopt her outlook, her MO: ‘The mission is what matters.’
And that’s as many thoughts as I have room for today...
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Haven't been able to find any. So I'm thinking Lynch may be a new voice in the field - which explains a lot. He's doing things most of the writers don't do and actually making the comic more of a novel than just a comic.
It's hard to explain. But in Lynch's comic unlike most of the one's I've picked up including Whedon's Buffy S8 - the character is evolving - the comic is more character driven and the sitch he's put in explores a new part of his character. What would happen if Spike was forced to do Group Therapy? Or was stuck in an aslym? Especially after the Initiative?
Same here. I wanted to like them, but... meh. I'm hoping the Faith arc will do something neat!
Perhaps it's jI think Brian K. Vaughn may add a new angle. Like Lynch he is both a huge fan and new to the characters.
I know that some s8 defenders say that Joss breaking the rules is brilliant, because it does new things...
I've heard those arguments too and keep wondering if these folks have read any comic books? Because trust me, he's not doing anything remotely new. Rules? Hasn't really broken any that I can see. I guess I've read Magna, so am familar with some of the stuff he's done? Don't know. In regards to the actual series - again nothing new. The whole Warren/Amy bit was done far better in Season 7 in Killer in Me, and in S6. What he's done in Buffy S8 with them? Not new. I've seen the same thing done in comics and soap operas. Two villians rise from the dead, capture the heroine and threaten to torture her...been done to death. Fail to see what rules he's breaking?
The only arguments I've seen is in-depth analysis of what a thricewise is.
Not exactly new either.
No, I agree. I think ATS S6 will probably be more interesting..
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Yes! That's it. Exellent way of putting it.
the character is evolving - the comic is more character driven and the sitch he's put in explores a new part of his character.
Which is one reason I love it so much, since I am *all* about character development/study. The Spike who leaves Mosaic is different to the one who entered. I can't wait to see what Lynch is going to do with him in S6! (And of course I'm hoping that he'll do a good Angel and Illyria etc. as well. Here's to hoping!)
Perhaps it's jI think Brian K. Vaughn may add a new angle.
Yes, I think so too. (Now if only they'd get a different artist... *mutters*)
Rules? Hasn't really broken any that I can see.
It's the ret-con! The whole Warren thing, which is just ludicrous (I presume you've seen
No, I agree. I think ATS S6 will probably be more interesting..
*lives in hope*
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(Anonymous) 2007-06-08 01:27 pm (UTC)(link)Hate to say this but you are right. I've read comics off and on for about fifteen years now, and watched a lot of serials and soap operas, and I can tell you for a fact that what Whedon did with the retcon? Is not new. It's standard. Almost to the point of being part of the form.
In soaps and comics - it is an unwritten rule that you can bring back anyone you please back from the dead. It's actually why most people make fun of soap operas and comic book serials - it's why they get a bad name.
Whenever a tv show kills someone off then brings them back with a retcon, people laugh and say "oh it's such a soap opera!" The X-men comics did it all the time. I think Jean Grey has been killed five times now. Magneto at least five. Professor X? four or five. It got to the point that whenever a character died? I shrugged. Heck in Whedon's X-Men comics - he brought back Colossus from the dead - which was an interesting trick, since not only was Colossus dead, he had been cremated and his ashes scattered to the four winds. Can't remember how Whedon retconned it. But people shrugged it off and didn't worry too much - standard practice in the world of comics.
So no, what Whedon is doing in Buffy S8 is actually following the rules of comics. He hasn't broken one.
Agree - it's lame. But then I was never that crazy about Warren or Amy as villains, or the initiative for that matter. So Whedon's choice of villains is NOT working for me.
(Now if only they'd get a different artist... *mutters*)
Right there with you. Jeanty is NOT working for me. Amy and Dawn look alike.He's serviceable. But not great. The only characters he seems to draw well are Willow and Xander - who are actually pretty easy to draw. My problem is I'm loving the cover artist...and the art inside isn't living up to her talent - which is often the case with comics, unfortunately. Cover art is often better than what is inside.
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Well ret-cons and bringing people back from the dead are certainly not foreign to the Buffy verse, and f.ex. I *love* the ret-con in S4 of Angel - the sheer scope and audaciousness of it is brilliant. It puts weight behind the Big Bad, and also shows just how little Angel is in control of his own life. I'm also all for bringing people back, but apart from the fact that I'm not bothered about Amy or Warren either (not *now* - I liked them and their function on the show), it just irritates me that the ret-con is so clumsy. (I re-watched Warren's death: bullet + flaying + fire. But hey - he's fine now!) I think it was
Jeanty is NOT working for me. He's serviceable. But not great.
I have no idea why they were so thrilled to get him. He even puts me off the things I *do* like.
::stamps foot impatiently for s6::
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But this retcon? It doesn't really work. Nor does it further the characters. The Immortal retcon never bugged me - because it does further the characters and story - it gives Andrew a whole new and interesting dimension, and also comments on Spike and Angel in an interesting way.
But this? Shrug. Clumsy. Whedon has done better.
Yep - feel the same on Jeanty. No understanding at all why they like him.
Course Dark Horse struggles to get decent artists on the Buffy comics and getting one who will stay with the whole series is tough, artists tend to come and go. Whedon prefers to work with just one all the way through for continuity - which I can appreciate. Prefer that myself. But I wish they'd found another John Cassidy or Frank Urruh. Who have the ability to show lines in faces, hairs out of place, action, and make every character different. The comics come to life in their hands, are 3 dimensional - and that is not easy to do.
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Ooooh yes! And the pages relating to the ret-con were released a few weeks ago, so I've hashed out that issue already. And I quite plainly refuse to believe that Amy was able to snatch him away under Willow's nose (she hunts him down for a whole day and then doesn't care that he goes *poof* before she can kill him?) It's *obvious* that Willow was the one who made him burn and then disappear.
But this? Shrug. Clumsy. Whedon has done better.
This is where 'we can do *anything* in a comic book' shows its downside.
Who have the ability to show lines in faces, hairs out of place, action, and make every character different. The comics come to life in their hands, are 3 dimensional - and that is not easy to do.
I'll have to look up the work of John Cassidy. But I agree - good artwork is very, very important - just like good actors. You can have the best script in the world, but if it can't be put across convincingly, what's the point?
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And comics...sigh. There's a reason most people laugh at them and don't take them seriously. Some are quite good and deserve better treatment - Spike:Aslym is an excellent example as are The Watchmen books. Others...sigh.
When you get a chance - check out Whedon/Cassidy's Astonishing X-Men arc - it shows what Whedon can do with a brilliant artist at the helm.