Happy Birthday Good Omens

[elisi]

Happy Birthday to the Good Omens universe. ^_^

I bring you a fic: Factory Settings

100k, post-S2. Basically an attempt at S3. Huge in scope and ambition. It is very long, but the chapters are very short. It's like catnip and you'll just keep reading. <3

Comments

[astrogirl]

The ending did maybe feel a bit rushed, a bit WTF-ish, but, honestly, I think you could kind of say the same things about the ending of S1, and despite that, I think both of them actually work well on the levels they need to work on (and maybe some similar ways, too). And I kind of like that the fic doesn't try to over-explain some of the more, well, genuinely ineffable aspects of things.

And I already wrote one where they raise the Antichrist, so I'm not sure how different a raising-the-Second-Coming fic would be! :) (And technically I think the Second Coming shouldn't be a baby, anyway, so I might find myself balking a bit at writing it that way. Although I did like the fact that this particular story actually acknowledged that as a "change of plans" while still going for it.)

[maia]

think you could kind of say the same things about the ending of S1

?!? S1, or S2?

YMMV, of course, but to me the end of S1 is perfectly paced and makes perfect sense? It’s the end of S2 that seems rushed and WTF-ish? (But then, to me, at least, the problems with S2 start long before the Final Fifteen.)

That said: it’s not that the end of S2 is out of character for either Aziraphale or Crowley; it’s not (alas). As many people have pointed out, their communication problems run very deep. And it’s not clear, in S1, just how far Aziraphale’s epiphany really goes. There’s that scene in S1 E4 when he says to the Metatron, “there needn’t be another war, we can save everyone” and his eyes are so full of hope, and then the Metatron replies, “The point is not to avoid the war, the point is to win it,” and Aziraphale’s face changes (and oh, Mr.-micro-expression-Sheen’s acting is just stunning) as he realizes that there is no hope that – as he argued to Crowley earlier – “If I can just reach the right people then I can get all this sorted out” – no hope at all.

Aziraphale recognizes that the Great Plan =/= the Ineffable Plan, and that it’s possible that he and Crowley were actually doing God’s will in siding with humanity against Heaven/Hell. But there’s no indication that he’s given up on the idea that Heaven is morally superior, or on the idea that everything could be fixed if only the right people were in charge.

(Or...at least if the people in charge would listen to his suggestions...interestingly, he’s in a place that’s not that dissimilar from where the angel-who-will-become-Crowley was in the first scene of S2...I wonder if S3 will begin with a flashback to Crowley’s fall and it will turn out that what really caused Crowley’s fall wasn’t asking questions but believing that he was the one who could single-handedly fix the broken system, and if he left Aziraphale for Lucifer in the same way that Aziraphale left Crowley for the Metatron?)

(One reason I dislike the idea of Crowley as Raphael is that it’s important to me that Aziraphale and Crowley be equals – equals in power, and also morally equal: they’re equally complicit.)

[astrogirl]

I meant S1, and I was thinking entirely in plot terms, not character ones. Thematically, it's perfect. But, while Adam's it-all-gets-fixed-because-I-say-so resolution is very well grounded, it is still a bit abrupt. And the more you try to think about the very specific details of what he did and the logic of how it worked, the harder it is to think about, and the less coherent sense it makes. Which is fine! It works in all the ways it needs, to, and I think the ways it doesn't work still actuality work, because this isn't a universe that runs strictly on logic, or in ways that humans are capable of understanding fully. And I think the fic feels pretty consistent with that, ultimately. Enough so that in the moment when I felt the impulse to go, "WTF?" and push back against the ways in which it wasn't entirely making sense to me, I was instead easily able to relax and think, "Ah, but it's Good Omens-y, though, it fits" and just happily go with it.

S2 does actually also end in a very sudden "there, now all that plot stuff is instantly cleared up" kind of way, but it turns out, in the end, to have been so much not actually about the plot stuff that it's hard to even care. :) Or at least, it was for me. And I certainly can't think of the very end of S2 as "rushed and WTF-ish," at least not in any kind of negative way, because it's not actually an end, it's a cliffhanger, and those are supposed to rush up on you and leave you going "WTF?!" And, in character terms, it does makes sense to me, too, for all the reasons you list, and then some.

I wonder if S3 will begin with a flashback to Crowley’s fall and it will turn out that what really caused Crowley’s fall wasn’t asking questions but believing that he was the one who could single-handedly fix the broken system, and if he left Aziraphale for Lucifer in the same way that Aziraphale left Crowley for the Metatron?

I don't know how I'd feel about seeing that play out in canon -- part of feels for some reason that it might be better if we never do see the Fall at all -- but I find that a really interesting idea. I always love a good parallel!

(One reason I dislike the idea of Crowley as Raphael is that it’s important to me that Aziraphale and Crowley be equals – equals in power, and also morally equal: they’re equally complicit.)

It's canon from S2 that Crowley was at least fairly high up in the tiers of the hierarchy and it seems likely that he would have outranked Aziraphale at least somewhat then, but that thought doesn't bother me, as it seems entirely irrelevant now. But the impulse to add as much extra-super-specialness as possible to characters who don't remotely need it does bother me, and in a lot of stories where the idea is used, it seems to be specifically because the author wants to introduce some power-imbalance angst, and that's not a thing I want, either.

Plus, it makes absolutely no sense! (And not in an appropriately "ineffable" way, either.) Crowley fell before humans existed. If he was Raphael, there would be no Angel Raphael in human art and mythology and etc. It baffles me why I have never seen anyone else pointing this out.

[maia]

part of feels for some reason that it might be better if we never do see the Fall at all

Interesting! What makes you say that?

[astrogirl]

Oh, I don't know, really. I'm sure that if we did see it, it would be wonderfully written and acted and be meaningful in the story and I'd be perfectly happy with it. Because Gaiman wouldn't even write it if he couldn't make that happen. But in the absence of that reality, I do just sort of wonder if it might be more effective to leave it to the imagination. Especially because it seems like a case where it would be extra tricky to make it work, tonally; neither sticking jokes in such a scene nor serving it up as a pure, unadulterated angstfest feels appealing when I try to imagine it in the show.

Then again, maybe I've just read one too many fics in which Crowley is basically like, "I don't want to talk about that too much, it's ancient history, it doesn't define me, and I don't appreciate people being morbidly curious about what it was like," to the point where my instinctive impulse is to want to back off and give him privacy on the subject. :)

[maia]

I suppose part of the reason I want to see it is that after S2 I'm longing for more moral complexity? I prefer interpretations where it's not just Heaven and Hell that are equally wrong, but Aziraphale and Crowley who are equally complicit?

One of my issues with S2 is that it seemed to push things in the direction of Crowley as blameless victim - but that's boring. Aziraphale wants to love Crowley and enjoy the world while preserving his belief in Heaven's (and his own) moral superiority; he avoids responsibility (“I'm the nice one, you can't expect me to do the dirty work”) and lies to himself - that's clear. But the story is more interesting if Crowley's “I only ever asked questions” is akin to Aziraphale’s “I am a great deal holier-than-thou”: at once technically correct and a self-serving lie.

I think we need to see the Fall because both their characters turn on it, and neither Aziraphale nor Crowley are reliable narrators of their own motivations, and we need to see the truth of them laid bare.

[astrogirl]

Hmm. I'm a huge fan of moral complexity, but I don't know that that's the place I'd most want to see moral complexity for Crowley come from... I'm more interested in the ways he's morally complex now than the ways he might have been morally complex then. Although I'm sure there were some -- it's always seemed to me that "I only ever asked questions" is at least a significant simplification even if the heart of it is true -- and I have no doubt that some really interesting things could be done with that. Probably even things that, if I saw them, I'd absolutely love them, and if I'm looking back at this comment after next season and shaking my head that I ever thought maybe that wasn't something I wanted, that would be a great outcome! But I'm not sure I feel it's necessary. (Well, maybe. My feelings on this are kind of vague, and I'm more sort of thinking out loud about it than articulating any kind of firm opinion on the matter.)

I think I see Crowley not as morally superior to Aziraphale, but as someone who was forced, a very long time ago, to learn a lesson that Aziraphale is still struggling with.

[maia]

I think I see Crowley not as morally superior to Aziraphale, but as someone who was forced, a very long time ago, to learn a lesson that Aziraphale is still struggling with.

Oh, I completely agree!

That's why I find the idea that Crowley's fall might mirror Aziraphale's, um - "ascent"? - or whatever you call stepping into that elevator with the Metatron - to be interesting: Crowley learned then what Aziraphale - we hope - will learn in S3. (I'm not married to the idea! I just find it intriguing.)

But the more I think about it: I'm not sure it's Crowley's fall that I think we need to see so much as THE fall - or rather, what led up to it - how 10 millions angels became demons. (10 million angels, 10 million demons, equal numbers on both sides...why?) So much turns on it. We need to see it.

(I do like the idea that the end of S3 might be the transformation of the Good Omens universe into our universe: a universe with no Heaven, no Hell, and no Plan...a universe ruled by the laws of physics, not the laws of God.)

[astrogirl]

(I'm not married to the idea! I just find it intriguing.)

I can't disagree, it is intriguing!

And I'm now thinking maybe whether we need to see the Fall or night might depend a great deal on exactly what S3 does and how it's doing it. I've been thinking that it's not something we've needed to see so far -- knowing that it happened has felt like enough for me, anyway -- but it may well be that it's something we need to see for S3 to work. I'll be very, very interested to see how that goes.

(I do like the idea that the end of S3 might be the transformation of the Good Omens universe into our universe: a universe with no Heaven, no Hell, and no Plan...a universe ruled by the laws of physics, not the laws of God.)

I've seen that idea floated a few times, and I think I really like it, too. (*cheerfully breaks into a chorus of "Imagine"* :))

[maia]

And I'm now thinking maybe whether we need to see the Fall or night might depend a great deal on exactly what S3 does and how it's doing it. I've been thinking that it's not something we've needed to see so far -- knowing that it happened has felt like enough for me, anyway -- but it may well be that it's something we need to see for S3 to work. I'll be very, very interested to see how that goes.

Likewise!


*cheerfully breaks into a chorus of "Imagine"*

Of course...a universe ruled by the laws of physics doesn't seem conducive to all the people living life in peace, either...


I'm now re-thinking the idea that Crowley's fall might mirror Aziraphale's "ascent"...I came across a post I wrote a few years back:


Crowley experiences God as a terrifying absence; he’s afraid of being abandoned and ignored by God: “There aren’t any right people. There’s just God, moving in mysterious ways and not talking to any of us.”

Aziraphale experiences God as a terrifying presence; he’s afraid of being scrutinized and judged by God (flaming sword).

Of course, Crowley’s fear of abandonment and Aziraphale’s fear of scrutiny have a tremendous impact on their relationship; we all project our experiences with our parents onto each other. Crowley is afraid that Aziraphale will abandon him as he feels abandoned by God; Aziraphale is afraid that Crowley will scrutinize him as he feels scrutinized by God.

That's overly simplistic, of course, but...well, I'm not sure what I'm saying, exactly, just pondering.

[astrogirl]

Of course...a universe ruled by the laws of physics doesn't seem conducive to all the people living life in peace, either...

It is demonstrably true that humans are not only capable of making things up and then fighting about them, but that it seems to be one of our favorite activities. :/ Still beats having supernatural forces trying to wipe you out entirely, though.

That's overly simplistic, of course, but...well, I'm not sure what I'm saying, exactly, just pondering.

These are very good, interesting ponderings. :)