elisi | Happy Birthday Good Omens

I'm on chapter 55.

:D :D :D

Oh, man, I just finished binge-reading that one last night. It took up a lot of time that I probably should have been doing much more "productive" things with, but I regret absolutely nothing. Was thinking I should probably give it a rec on my DW, too. Fantastic story, and the most utterly immersive fic-reading experience I've had in a long time.

I'm even more impressed with it, because it does a couple of things I normally hate. I mean, I could do a whole rant about why I think Crowley-was-Raphael is both illogical and unappealing, and in fact that initially put me off reading it. So glad I gave it another shot, though, because man, if you're going to use that idea, that is the way to do it, and the plot that gets woven around it totally justifies it. And while I still kind of have the urge to smack the author across the face a few times with the word "said" until they cry uncle and agree to replace all their conspicuously inappropriate dialog tags with it... Well, look, that's a pet peeve that's normally a back-button offense for me, but every single other thing about that fic was so damned good I hardly even cared. Which is astonishing for me.

I damned near came out of that thing thinking, "Well, S3 might be an anticlimax now." :)

Since you don't really enjoy the fan-theory of 'Crowley was Raphael'- I wonder if you'd maybe get a kick out of the fic By Any Other Name? It's about what if Aziraphale had originally been Raphael (Heaven was the one that made the clerical boo-boo; you know how paperwork is). And the sequel The Naming of Cats is even funnier. :D

Edited 2023-10-22 06:10 (UTC)

Don't know how I feel about that idea, either, but the fic sounds like it might be fun, so I'll check it out!

All right, I've now read both of them, and they were both very, very silly and rather delightful, so thank you for the recs. :)

I think Crowley-was-Raphael is both illogical and unappealing

Likewise, and I was initially put off reading for the same reason, but I got hooked quickly and stayed up way too late last night finishing it. I was a bit disappointed by the ending (seemed rushed, and didn't entirely make sense), but it's a long time since I've been immersed in a story like that, and I'm glad I read it.

(I would love to read an Astrogirl fic where Aziraphale and Crowley raise the Second Coming...just sayin'...)

The ending did maybe feel a bit rushed, a bit WTF-ish, but, honestly, I think you could kind of say the same things about the ending of S1, and despite that, I think both of them actually work well on the levels they need to work on (and maybe some similar ways, too). And I kind of like that the fic doesn't try to over-explain some of the more, well, genuinely ineffable aspects of things.

And I already wrote one where they raise the Antichrist, so I'm not sure how different a raising-the-Second-Coming fic would be! :) (And technically I think the Second Coming shouldn't be a baby, anyway, so I might find myself balking a bit at writing it that way. Although I did like the fact that this particular story actually acknowledged that as a "change of plans" while still going for it.)

think you could kind of say the same things about the ending of S1

?!? S1, or S2?

YMMV, of course, but to me the end of S1 is perfectly paced and makes perfect sense? It’s the end of S2 that seems rushed and WTF-ish? (But then, to me, at least, the problems with S2 start long before the Final Fifteen.)

That said: it’s not that the end of S2 is out of character for either Aziraphale or Crowley; it’s not (alas). As many people have pointed out, their communication problems run very deep. And it’s not clear, in S1, just how far Aziraphale’s epiphany really goes. There’s that scene in S1 E4 when he says to the Metatron, “there needn’t be another war, we can save everyone” and his eyes are so full of hope, and then the Metatron replies, “The point is not to avoid the war, the point is to win it,” and Aziraphale’s face changes (and oh, Mr.-micro-expression-Sheen’s acting is just stunning) as he realizes that there is no hope that – as he argued to Crowley earlier – “If I can just reach the right people then I can get all this sorted out” – no hope at all.

Aziraphale recognizes that the Great Plan =/= the Ineffable Plan, and that it’s possible that he and Crowley were actually doing God’s will in siding with humanity against Heaven/Hell. But there’s no indication that he’s given up on the idea that Heaven is morally superior, or on the idea that everything could be fixed if only the right people were in charge.

(Or...at least if the people in charge would listen to his suggestions...interestingly, he’s in a place that’s not that dissimilar from where the angel-who-will-become-Crowley was in the first scene of S2...I wonder if S3 will begin with a flashback to Crowley’s fall and it will turn out that what really caused Crowley’s fall wasn’t asking questions but believing that he was the one who could single-handedly fix the broken system, and if he left Aziraphale for Lucifer in the same way that Aziraphale left Crowley for the Metatron?)

(One reason I dislike the idea of Crowley as Raphael is that it’s important to me that Aziraphale and Crowley be equals – equals in power, and also morally equal: they’re equally complicit.)

Edited 2023-10-22 16:59 (UTC)

I meant S1, and I was thinking entirely in plot terms, not character ones. Thematically, it's perfect. But, while Adam's it-all-gets-fixed-because-I-say-so resolution is very well grounded, it is still a bit abrupt. And the more you try to think about the very specific details of what he did and the logic of how it worked, the harder it is to think about, and the less coherent sense it makes. Which is fine! It works in all the ways it needs, to, and I think the ways it doesn't work still actuality work, because this isn't a universe that runs strictly on logic, or in ways that humans are capable of understanding fully. And I think the fic feels pretty consistent with that, ultimately. Enough so that in the moment when I felt the impulse to go, "WTF?" and push back against the ways in which it wasn't entirely making sense to me, I was instead easily able to relax and think, "Ah, but it's Good Omens-y, though, it fits" and just happily go with it.

S2 does actually also end in a very sudden "there, now all that plot stuff is instantly cleared up" kind of way, but it turns out, in the end, to have been so much not actually about the plot stuff that it's hard to even care. :) Or at least, it was for me. And I certainly can't think of the very end of S2 as "rushed and WTF-ish," at least not in any kind of negative way, because it's not actually an end, it's a cliffhanger, and those are supposed to rush up on you and leave you going "WTF?!" And, in character terms, it does makes sense to me, too, for all the reasons you list, and then some.

I wonder if S3 will begin with a flashback to Crowley’s fall and it will turn out that what really caused Crowley’s fall wasn’t asking questions but believing that he was the one who could single-handedly fix the broken system, and if he left Aziraphale for Lucifer in the same way that Aziraphale left Crowley for the Metatron?

I don't know how I'd feel about seeing that play out in canon -- part of feels for some reason that it might be better if we never do see the Fall at all -- but I find that a really interesting idea. I always love a good parallel!

(One reason I dislike the idea of Crowley as Raphael is that it’s important to me that Aziraphale and Crowley be equals – equals in power, and also morally equal: they’re equally complicit.)

It's canon from S2 that Crowley was at least fairly high up in the tiers of the hierarchy and it seems likely that he would have outranked Aziraphale at least somewhat then, but that thought doesn't bother me, as it seems entirely irrelevant now. But the impulse to add as much extra-super-specialness as possible to characters who don't remotely need it does bother me, and in a lot of stories where the idea is used, it seems to be specifically because the author wants to introduce some power-imbalance angst, and that's not a thing I want, either.

Plus, it makes absolutely no sense! (And not in an appropriately "ineffable" way, either.) Crowley fell before humans existed. If he was Raphael, there would be no Angel Raphael in human art and mythology and etc. It baffles me why I have never seen anyone else pointing this out.

part of feels for some reason that it might be better if we never do see the Fall at all

Interesting! What makes you say that?

Oh, I don't know, really. I'm sure that if we did see it, it would be wonderfully written and acted and be meaningful in the story and I'd be perfectly happy with it. Because Gaiman wouldn't even write it if he couldn't make that happen. But in the absence of that reality, I do just sort of wonder if it might be more effective to leave it to the imagination. Especially because it seems like a case where it would be extra tricky to make it work, tonally; neither sticking jokes in such a scene nor serving it up as a pure, unadulterated angstfest feels appealing when I try to imagine it in the show.

Then again, maybe I've just read one too many fics in which Crowley is basically like, "I don't want to talk about that too much, it's ancient history, it doesn't define me, and I don't appreciate people being morbidly curious about what it was like," to the point where my instinctive impulse is to want to back off and give him privacy on the subject. :)

I suppose part of the reason I want to see it is that after S2 I'm longing for more moral complexity? I prefer interpretations where it's not just Heaven and Hell that are equally wrong, but Aziraphale and Crowley who are equally complicit?

One of my issues with S2 is that it seemed to push things in the direction of Crowley as blameless victim - but that's boring. Aziraphale wants to love Crowley and enjoy the world while preserving his belief in Heaven's (and his own) moral superiority; he avoids responsibility (“I'm the nice one, you can't expect me to do the dirty work”) and lies to himself - that's clear. But the story is more interesting if Crowley's “I only ever asked questions” is akin to Aziraphale’s “I am a great deal holier-than-thou”: at once technically correct and a self-serving lie.

I think we need to see the Fall because both their characters turn on it, and neither Aziraphale nor Crowley are reliable narrators of their own motivations, and we need to see the truth of them laid bare.

Edited 2023-10-25 03:57 (UTC)

Hmm. I'm a huge fan of moral complexity, but I don't know that that's the place I'd most want to see moral complexity for Crowley come from... I'm more interested in the ways he's morally complex now than the ways he might have been morally complex then. Although I'm sure there were some -- it's always seemed to me that "I only ever asked questions" is at least a significant simplification even if the heart of it is true -- and I have no doubt that some really interesting things could be done with that. Probably even things that, if I saw them, I'd absolutely love them, and if I'm looking back at this comment after next season and shaking my head that I ever thought maybe that wasn't something I wanted, that would be a great outcome! But I'm not sure I feel it's necessary. (Well, maybe. My feelings on this are kind of vague, and I'm more sort of thinking out loud about it than articulating any kind of firm opinion on the matter.)

I think I see Crowley not as morally superior to Aziraphale, but as someone who was forced, a very long time ago, to learn a lesson that Aziraphale is still struggling with.

I think I see Crowley not as morally superior to Aziraphale, but as someone who was forced, a very long time ago, to learn a lesson that Aziraphale is still struggling with.

Oh, I completely agree!

That's why I find the idea that Crowley's fall might mirror Aziraphale's, um - "ascent"? - or whatever you call stepping into that elevator with the Metatron - to be interesting: Crowley learned then what Aziraphale - we hope - will learn in S3. (I'm not married to the idea! I just find it intriguing.)

But the more I think about it: I'm not sure it's Crowley's fall that I think we need to see so much as THE fall - or rather, what led up to it - how 10 millions angels became demons. (10 million angels, 10 million demons, equal numbers on both sides...why?) So much turns on it. We need to see it.

(I do like the idea that the end of S3 might be the transformation of the Good Omens universe into our universe: a universe with no Heaven, no Hell, and no Plan...a universe ruled by the laws of physics, not the laws of God.)

Edited 2023-10-25 23:40 (UTC)

(I'm not married to the idea! I just find it intriguing.)

I can't disagree, it is intriguing!

And I'm now thinking maybe whether we need to see the Fall or night might depend a great deal on exactly what S3 does and how it's doing it. I've been thinking that it's not something we've needed to see so far -- knowing that it happened has felt like enough for me, anyway -- but it may well be that it's something we need to see for S3 to work. I'll be very, very interested to see how that goes.

(I do like the idea that the end of S3 might be the transformation of the Good Omens universe into our universe: a universe with no Heaven, no Hell, and no Plan...a universe ruled by the laws of physics, not the laws of God.)

I've seen that idea floated a few times, and I think I really like it, too. (*cheerfully breaks into a chorus of "Imagine"* :))

And I'm now thinking maybe whether we need to see the Fall or night might depend a great deal on exactly what S3 does and how it's doing it. I've been thinking that it's not something we've needed to see so far -- knowing that it happened has felt like enough for me, anyway -- but it may well be that it's something we need to see for S3 to work. I'll be very, very interested to see how that goes.

Likewise!

*cheerfully breaks into a chorus of "Imagine"*

Of course...a universe ruled by the laws of physics doesn't seem conducive to all the people living life in peace, either...

I'm now re-thinking the idea that Crowley's fall might mirror Aziraphale's "ascent"...I came across a post I wrote a few years back:

Crowley experiences God as a terrifying absence; he’s afraid of being abandoned and ignored by God: “There aren’t any right people. There’s just God, moving in mysterious ways and not talking to any of us.”

Aziraphale experiences God as a terrifying presence; he’s afraid of being scrutinized and judged by God (flaming sword).

Of course, Crowley’s fear of abandonment and Aziraphale’s fear of scrutiny have a tremendous impact on their relationship; we all project our experiences with our parents onto each other. Crowley is afraid that Aziraphale will abandon him as he feels abandoned by God; Aziraphale is afraid that Crowley will scrutinize him as he feels scrutinized by God.

That's overly simplistic, of course, but...well, I'm not sure what I'm saying, exactly, just pondering.

Of course...a universe ruled by the laws of physics doesn't seem conducive to all the people living life in peace, either...

It is demonstrably true that humans are not only capable of making things up and then fighting about them, but that it seems to be one of our favorite activities. :/ Still beats having supernatural forces trying to wipe you out entirely, though.

That's overly simplistic, of course, but...well, I'm not sure what I'm saying, exactly, just pondering.

These are very good, interesting ponderings. :)

Late comment, sorry! (Might delve into the discussions too, if I have the brainspace)

It took up a lot of time that I probably should have been doing much more "productive" things with, but I regret absolutely nothing. Fantastic story, and the most utterly immersive fic-reading experience I've had in a long time.
Same. I've not really touched any post-S2 fic, and what I've read has been... I hesitate to say 'unsubstantial', but has tended to be shorter and deal with one issue only.

I'm even more impressed with it, because it does a couple of things I normally hate. I mean, I could do a whole rant about why I think Crowley-was-Raphael is both illogical and unappealing
Join the club! ^_^ Although I think it really REALLY helps to have an actual pre-Fall Crowley to work with. Not that the characterisation in this wasn't astonishing and incredible, but was building on something we *knew*, not the author's head canon. (I am partial to Aziraphale becoming Raphael though. That could work.)

I damned near came out of that thing thinking, "Well, S3 might be an anticlimax now." :)
See I'm... on the fence. It was very very clever, but there was enough plot for three whole seasons. And (imho) it came at the expense of the characters. Not Raphael (of course), but we never saw Crowley deal with Raphael, and also the heart of the story, ship wise, was Chapter 43 (I have re-read that many many times). But a story which hinges on a relationship shouldn't have the biggest emotional moment 2/3 of the way through.

I realise this is judging the fic by... show standards, but it's the reason I only like it a lot, rather than love it. But. Best Raphael ever, hands down. <3

Same. I've not really touched any post-S2 fic, and what I've read has been... I hesitate to say 'unsubstantial', but has tended to be shorter and deal with one issue only.

Yeah, and I find they tend to deal with it in a fairly limited number of ways, too. I'll be honest, I'm kind of missing the post-S1 fic landscape right now. Even the insubstantial fic tended to be insubstantial in ways that were a lot more varied and fun.

Join the club! ^_^ Although I think it really REALLY helps to have an actual pre-Fall Crowley to work with. Not that the characterisation in this wasn't astonishing and incredible, but was building on something we *knew*, not the author's head canon.

Yeah, agreed. Speaking as someone who's written at least a tiny bit of angel!Crowley fic and probably wouldn't have even dreamed of attempting it before S2.

And (imho) it came at the expense of the characters. Not Raphael (of course), but we never saw Crowley deal with Raphael, and also the heart of the story, ship wise, was Chapter 43 (I have re-read that many many times).

Ooh, now, I think I may have almost an exactly opposite take on that, especially when it comes to the finding it wanting a little because you're judging it by show standards thing. Wherever it locates the emotional climax, overall I'd actually say that the characterization and shippiness stuff feels more like the way the show does things than the way fic usually does it, and I find that really refreshing.

Fic usually really, really foregrounds the emotional stuff and just... wallows in it, often to the point of melodrama. It can do that really well and satisfyingly, but I tend to personally be of the "less is more" school when it comes to the fic I really love. (There's a reason why "big feelings getting expressed in small or quiet ways" is in my likes list for every exchange letter I've ever posted, and why I always keep it at the very end of the list in hopes that it'll stick in people's memories better. :)) So I sort of adore the not-very-ficcy-feeling subtlety of this one.

And in the show itself, flashbacks aside (which I realize is a very big aside), the emotional and shippy beats do, I think, tend to be a bit more subtle and more scattered, more interrupted by plot stuff ("sorry to break up an intimate moment!"), and more sparing with the actual Big Dramatic Moments than fic usually is. To me this did feel kind of like that. And, importantly, the emotional and character stuff is still there in the story, it's just very, well, "big feelings getting expressed in small or quiet ways." There are so very many little lines, even just little half-sentences from Aziraphale that make it so clear to me what he's feeling (and how incredibly complex his feelings are) without the author belaboring it or Raphael, as the viewpoint character, quite understanding it. It's like, somehow they've managed to capture the equivalent of how much Michael Sheen's subtle acting choices bring to the show and add huge emotional overtones to lines that might not seem all that significant out of context.

All of which is an approach that took a moment for me to get used to and maybe even needed a conscious recognition that that's what the fic was doing for me to fully appreciate, but once I did, it made me happy.

Could more of Crowley dealing with Raphael and explicitly resolving his own complicated feelings about the person he used to be maybe have been more satisfying? Quite possibly, but for me there are a set of implications in the ending that I think make it work for me quite well as it is. (Note: SPOILERS FOR THE ENDING OF THE FIC!) Namely, that Crowley should now actually remember the whole experience. He'll remember now what Aziraphale said about falling in love with him as a demon, and he'll remember that the angel he was chose to go back, even chose to have his memories of it all locked away, to ensure that he will become the person Crowley now is. Because he thought that Crowley, the demon, was in fact exactly who he wanted to become. That's huge, and I don't feel like I needed the author to hand-hold me through the psychological implications of that in order for me to appreciate it.

In conclusion: pardon me while I go draw sparkly hearts around this fic, apparently. ;)

Yeah, and I find they tend to deal with it in a fairly limited number of ways, too. I'll be honest, I'm kind of missing the post-S1 fic landscape right now. Even the insubstantial fic tended to be insubstantial in ways that were a lot more varied and fun.
Me too! What happened?? (I guess that now it's substantially harder to write straight fluff, now the writers have to Deal With All The Issues. And it's complicated.)

Yeah, agreed. Speaking as someone who's written at least a tiny bit of angel!Crowley fic and probably wouldn't have even dreamed of attempting it before S2.
Obviously we had angel!Crowley in The Fic, and I'm v pleased that (unlike a lot of other things) that part wasn't jossed.

So I sort of adore the not-very-ficcy-feeling subtlety of this one.
Interesting. I shall be lazy and just quote what Promethia said, since she voiced my thoughts perfectly:

" I think my major problem is that this is not A Fic, as in fanfiction is a genre of writing whose purpose is emotional revelation, merely a work of fiction that builds off somebody else's work. It is quite good at being what it is. But I rather felt the frankly pretty flawless Raphael characterization was wasted on a fic that wasn't, at the end of the day, about Crowley and didn't give Crowley any real growth of resolution around his past self."

And in the show itself, flashbacks aside (which I realize is a very big aside), the emotional and shippy beats do, I think, tend to be a bit more subtle and more scattered, more interrupted by plot stuff ("sorry to break up an intimate moment!"), and more sparing with the actual Big Dramatic Moments than fic usually is. To me this did feel kind of like that.
No disagreement, but there was so much plot. Like, if the fic was filmed it'd be 10 episodes long. Which isn't a criticism as such, but imho if the author had edited it a bit, it would have improved the overall flow.

And, importantly, the emotional and character stuff is still there in the story, it's just very, well, "big feelings getting expressed in small or quiet ways." There are so very many little lines, even just little half-sentences from Aziraphale that make it so clear to me what he's feeling (and how incredibly complex his feelings are) without the author belaboring it or Raphael, as the viewpoint character, quite understanding it. It's like, somehow they've managed to capture the equivalent of how much Michael Sheen's subtle acting choices bring to the show and add huge emotional overtones to lines that might not seem all that significant out of context.
Not disagreeing, but I wanted more Aziraphale POV. He has lost Crowley. He might never get him back. And the whole fic through he's stoic and bottling things up and going through all KINDS of hugely tasking endeavours and I wanted... hm... (Italics mine)

"He hasn't met me yet. I sent him a message, but it went wrong. It arrived too early. This is the Doctor in the days before he knew me. And he looks at me, he looks right through me and it shouldn't kill me, but it does."

Seeing it secondhand through Raphael isn't enough. I wanted insight into Aziraphale, the walking wounded. (And nothing to do with the duel.)

Because he thought that Crowley, the demon, was in fact exactly who he wanted to become. That's huge, and I don't feel like I needed the author to hand-hold me through the psychological implications of that in order for me to appreciate it.
Not hand-holding. But just... something. We had a lovely journey through the ages, but... nothing. (see Promethia's point above.) However I am v happy that it worked for you, since that is much preferable to it not *quite* working, and being annoyed.

In conclusion: pardon me while I go draw sparkly hearts around this fic, apparently. ;)
Pink sparkly hearts are always welcome! I love it when people love things, and I hate being negative. It was just... really close, but not quite there. Which was more disappointing than if it'd just been mediocre.

Me too! What happened?? (I guess that now it's substantially harder to write straight fluff, now the writers have to Deal With All The Issues. And it's complicated.)

It's not even entirely that it's harder to write straight fluff, I think, although that's a big part of it (and I never thought I'd say this, but, man, I am missing all that fluff right now). It's that you have to deal with this very specific set of both emotional and plot issues, or else you have to figure out a way to write around it, which is awkward, or ignore it, which feels weird to do. I know it's really daunting me! I've written some little post-S2 snippets, but mostly I feel like my ficcy hands are sort of tied until I see how the current situation comes out and I know what I actually have to work with when I'm imagining what comes next.

Obviously we had angel!Crowley in The Fic, and I'm v pleased that (unlike a lot of other things) that part wasn't jossed.

Yes, you dared what I wouldn't have, and I'm glad to know it worked out for you, canoon and all! :)

I think my major problem is that this is not A Fic, as in fanfiction is a genre of writing whose purpose is emotional revelation

LOL, I think the fact that it doesn't feel so much like A Fic in terms of how it handles the emotional stuff is exactly what I looooooooove about it! Because I don't think the emotional revelation is absent, exactly, but it's not prototypically ficcy emotional revelation, and I find that such a breath of fresh air.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against diving into a character's brain and (metaphorically) rolling around naked in their emotions. I've written enough of that, myself. But, man, give me a choice between a story where characters are spewing big dramatic, absolutely unambiguous emotions all over the place and one that quietly punches you in the feels from between the lines, and I'll take the latter every time, yes, please, gimme gimme gimme! I love that shit. I love it like pie. It captures so much of what I enjoy about my experience of watching the canon itself, it keeps me actively engaged as a reader extracting emotion from the text rather than just having it handed to me on a plate, and for most of the characters I love, it feels more in-character to me, too. And this one absolutely did that for me. Just because I wasn't out-and-out told what Aziraphale was feeling didn't mean I didn't feel it and understand it. I so, so did, even if I had to reach out for his emotions a little instead of having all of them coming to me, and it was painful and wonderful. And, yes, Crowley's POV could maybe have been brought out more, but I'd rather the changes in him be left to me to understand and feel on my own than that they be shoehorned in somewhere they didn't really fit, or spelled out in a This Is The Moral of the Story sort of way.

I am genuinely feeling kind of "awww, that's really too bad" about the fact that you guys found the story lacking in the thing that would have made it completely satisfying for you, but, man, for me, it pared away all the stuff that would have made it less satisfying and left all the stuff I actually wanted and needed! With some extra bonus stuff thrown in for good measure, too, because I don't actually need (or even always enjoy) plot in my fic, but if you're going to do it, yes, please, do it like that!

Honestly, for me, this sort of thing feels like a hearty but perfectly seasoned meal in a massive buffet of stuff that's just overly drenched with salt, or sugar, or spice. I mean, I like salt, sugar, and spice, but boy is it nice to find something that actually proportions them to my taste.

So, selfishly, I am very glad it is what it is, even if the ideal audience for it is precisely me. (Well, that thing with the dialog tags aside. :))

Sorry about the late response, no idea where the week went...

It's not even entirely that it's harder to write straight fluff, I think, although that's a big part of it (and I never thought I'd say this, but, man, I am missing all that fluff right now).
Yeah, fluff is nice. I guess there's the (2nd) Therapy Fic...

It's that you have to deal with this very specific set of both emotional and plot issues, or else you have to figure out a way to write around it, which is awkward, or ignore it, which feels weird to do.
Yeah, the writers basically have to figure out how to write some kind of S3, because the issues can't be handwaved away. And - as a perceptive person pointed out on Tumblr - there is no way S2 could have a happy ending, given the Metatron's proposal. Aziraphale going to Heaven on his own/Crowley coming with him/Aziraphale NOT going - all have heartbreak in there.

LOL, I think the fact that it doesn't feel so much like A Fic in terms of how it handles the emotional stuff is exactly what I looooooooove about it! Because I don't think the emotional revelation is absent, exactly, but it's not prototypically ficcy emotional revelation, and I find that such a breath of fresh air.
All your thoughts were v interesting and I am so happy that it worked for you.

But I still think the ending was a cop-out from a Crowley POV.

That said, it was written and posted SO QUICKLY, that I'm not surprised that they cut corners. Just the speed is a huge achievement.

Well, that thing with the dialog tags aside. :)
Didn't mind that, for me it was the random typos. ;)

Sorry about the late response, no idea where the week went...

No worries! You're getting a quick reply, though, because you happened to catch me at an idle time. :)

I guess there's the (2nd) Therapy Fic...

I bounced off that one pretty quickly, I'm afraid. The first one did a bunch of things I found really interesting and good, and a bunch of things that really just didn't work well for me. The 2nd one looked to be more of the same and then some, and I found I just didn't have the patience to sit through all the stuff I find unconvincing or sloggy to get to the good stuff again.

Aziraphale going to Heaven on his own/Crowley coming with him/Aziraphale NOT going - all have heartbreak in there.

Absolutely! And it seems hard to avoid that, no matter what you do. At one point after S2, I was considering writing a Metatron-free version of the ending, just because I'm really curious what that scene would look like if Crowley actually got to say his piece free of interruption or heartache. But one of the reasons I ended up not doing it is because it might look like a fix-it, but it would still leave certain now-obvious things about Aziraphale and his feelings about Heaven unaddressed and unresolved in a way that seems like it'd fester. The only truthful-feeling way I could think of ending it was with a nagging feeling in the back of Crowley's mind that there's another shoe still waiting to drop sometime, and that lacked appeal, somehow.

But I still think the ending was a cop-out from a Crowley POV.

Fair enough. I think there's a certain element of personal taste there, as well as a question of how much we as readers can be satisfied bringing stuff into a particular story when it's not explicit on the page. Which is something that I find varies a lot for me just from one story to another, really.

Didn't mind that, for me it was the random typos. ;)

I found myself able to forgive those without too much difficulty, although in a lesser fic (or, for that matter, a shorter one) they probably would have bothered me a lot more.

No worries! You're getting a quick reply, though, because you happened to catch me at an idle time. :)
Excellent! Ditto. :)

I bounced off that one pretty quickly, I'm afraid. [...] I found I just didn't have the patience to sit through all the stuff I find unconvincing or sloggy to get to the good stuff again.
I can confirm that it's been v v slow, but it looks like it's now taking off (Chapter 12?). Also not fluff. *g*

But one of the reasons I ended up not doing it is because it might look like a fix-it, but it would still leave certain now-obvious things about Aziraphale and his feelings about Heaven unaddressed and unresolved in a way that seems like it'd fester. The only truthful-feeling way I could think of ending it was with a nagging feeling in the back of Crowley's mind that there's another shoe still waiting to drop sometime, and that lacked appeal, somehow.
I hear ya. Proton, Owls & I have the beginning of a draft for a [crack] fic, but alas getting 3 people together to write is not working very well. But if we do it, it'll be fab.

Fair enough. I think there's a certain element of personal taste there, as well as a question of how much we as readers can be satisfied bringing stuff into a particular story when it's not explicit on the page. Which is something that I find varies a lot for me just from one story to another, really.
Oh totally. But Raphael is SO well done, Crowley seems almost an afterthought. I mean, obviously he isn't, but... how does Crowley feel about Raphael? Do they integrate? Can Crowley trade on Raphael's self-confidence and self-assurance? He lost a huge chunk of himself [according to this fic] and getting that back should *matter*. From a personal perspective, The Fic very much turned around Thirteen's mindwipe and Crowley getting those memories back and how pivotal that was to his character development/making peace with his Fall/understanding that ~~the Emperor~~ God was 'naked'. And here just... crickets. Why go to all that truly amazing effort without doing anything with it? (I'll stop now. *g*)

I found myself able to forgive those without too much difficulty, although in a lesser fic (or, for that matter, a shorter one) they probably would have bothered me a lot more.
I didn't mind them much (they clearly were just typos, the author could WRITE), but again it highlighted the speed.

Also not fluff. *g*

I would be rather surprised if it was. :)

I hear ya. Proton, Owls & I have the beginning of a draft for a [crack] fic, but alas getting 3 people together to write is not working very well. But if we do it, it'll be fab.

Ooh, well, I look forward to it, then, if and when!

And here just... crickets. Why go to all that truly amazing effort without doing anything with it? (I'll stop now. *g*)

LOL. Well, I do totally understand the annoyance there, I think, even if I don't share it. You know, maybe what that fic really needs is a sequel...

Ooh, well, I look forward to it, then, if and when!
Same!! Am preoccupied at the moment...

LOL. Well, I do totally understand the annoyance there, I think, even if I don't share it. You know, maybe what that fic really needs is a sequel...
Or just an addendum. But hey ho, nothing can please everyone, so I am glad that you loved it. :)

And happy birthday to you! I hope you’re having a brilliant day!
💐🍾🥂🎁🎈

Thank you!! I had a very lovely day indeed.

Also sorry about the late response, your comment got buried in my inbox. <3 <3 <3

Happy Birthday, Good Omens Universe, and Happy Birthday, Elisi!!!

Thank you (again). <3 <3 <3

Happy Birthday Good Omens

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