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*That* line!
So, I’ve read a great number of posts about issue one of the ‘Season 8’ comics. Some like it, some hate it. But no one has done much about looking beneath the surface (and considering how short comics are, that’s not all that surprising). But me being me, I always - sooner or later - bring the meta. Even if it is just about a single line...
Enjoy!
(Cutting for the sake of spoiler phobes, but I think the line in question is rather neatly summed up by my icon! *g*)
Enjoy!
(Cutting for the sake of spoiler phobes, but I think the line in question is rather neatly summed up by my icon! *g*)
“Great muppety Odin, I miss that sex.”
Yes, it made me laugh. I can also see why it makes some people cross, because it seems to mock our beloved Spike, and what he and Buffy had.
And then, yesterday, I suddenly looked at it again and went - hang on! This is Joss. And this is an important line - not to mention seriously weird at the same time. Surely it’s not just there for comic relief? And then - I remembered that Odin is the God of death...
So, I hunted him down on Wikipedia and found out that he’s the god of a lot of other things too:
Odin (Old Norse: Ódinn) is considered the chief god in Norse mythology and Norse paganism.
His name is related to ódr, meaning "mind", "excitation," "fury" or "poetry," and his role, like many of the Norse pantheon, is complex: he is god of wisdom, war, battle, and death. He is also attested as being a god of magic, poetry, prophecy, victory, and the hunt.
Odin is an ambivalent deity. Old Norse (Viking Age) connotations of Odin lie with "poetry, inspiration" as well as with "fury, madness."Odin gives to worthy poets the mead of inspiration, made by the dwarves, from the vessel Ód-rœrir.
Odin is associated with the concept of the Wild Hunt, a noisy, bellowing movement across the sky, leading a host of slain warriors.
Consistent with this, Snorri Sturluson's Prose Edda depicts Odin as welcoming the great dead warriors who have died in battle into his hall, Valhalla, which when literally interpreted, signifies the hall of the slain. These fallen, the einherjar, are assembled and entertained by Odin in order that they in return might fight for and support the gods in the final battle of the end of Earth, Ragnarök.
He is also a god of war, appearing throughout Norse myth as the bringer of victory. In the Norse sagas, Odin sometimes acts as the instigator of wars, and is said to have been able to start wars by simply throwing down his javelin Gungnir, and/or sending his valkyries, to influence the battle toward the end that he desires.
Ain’t that some interesting info? Most of which spells S-p-i-k-e to me... And you know what - I don’t think it’s coincidence. Not for one tiny little moment. Joss wants the comics to be considered canon, right? Well surely he’s doing his best to add some depth the the darn things!
Now the muppety bit is fairly simple... we have Count Dracula from The Muppets (obviously), as well as Angel turning into a puppet, both signifying the vampire element (not to mention that there'll soon be a comic with Spike as a puppet!) - and of course it also somewhat softens the great big serious warrior thing that Odin brings to the table. (Also - how incredibly cute would a Muppet Odin be? It really is a very funny line!)
So - there are layers, see? Buffy is thinking about her great fallen vampire warrior poet, and - being Buffy and the AR no longer being an issue at all, kthnx! - she misses the sex. ‘Cause you know - she never had it so good as him. Never.
And that is all the meta I can manage for now.
*bows*
ETA: I don't think Buffy knows much - if anything - about Norse mythology. It's pure meta - Joss using her odd turn of phrase to let us into her mind. It's sex with Spike the Champion (whom she loved) that she misses, not Spike the Convenient (whom she used).
Yes, it made me laugh. I can also see why it makes some people cross, because it seems to mock our beloved Spike, and what he and Buffy had.
And then, yesterday, I suddenly looked at it again and went - hang on! This is Joss. And this is an important line - not to mention seriously weird at the same time. Surely it’s not just there for comic relief? And then - I remembered that Odin is the God of death...
So, I hunted him down on Wikipedia and found out that he’s the god of a lot of other things too:
Odin (Old Norse: Ódinn) is considered the chief god in Norse mythology and Norse paganism.
His name is related to ódr, meaning "mind", "excitation," "fury" or "poetry," and his role, like many of the Norse pantheon, is complex: he is god of wisdom, war, battle, and death. He is also attested as being a god of magic, poetry, prophecy, victory, and the hunt.
Odin is an ambivalent deity. Old Norse (Viking Age) connotations of Odin lie with "poetry, inspiration" as well as with "fury, madness."Odin gives to worthy poets the mead of inspiration, made by the dwarves, from the vessel Ód-rœrir.
Odin is associated with the concept of the Wild Hunt, a noisy, bellowing movement across the sky, leading a host of slain warriors.
Consistent with this, Snorri Sturluson's Prose Edda depicts Odin as welcoming the great dead warriors who have died in battle into his hall, Valhalla, which when literally interpreted, signifies the hall of the slain. These fallen, the einherjar, are assembled and entertained by Odin in order that they in return might fight for and support the gods in the final battle of the end of Earth, Ragnarök.
He is also a god of war, appearing throughout Norse myth as the bringer of victory. In the Norse sagas, Odin sometimes acts as the instigator of wars, and is said to have been able to start wars by simply throwing down his javelin Gungnir, and/or sending his valkyries, to influence the battle toward the end that he desires.
Ain’t that some interesting info? Most of which spells S-p-i-k-e to me... And you know what - I don’t think it’s coincidence. Not for one tiny little moment. Joss wants the comics to be considered canon, right? Well surely he’s doing his best to add some depth the the darn things!
Now the muppety bit is fairly simple... we have Count Dracula from The Muppets (obviously), as well as Angel turning into a puppet, both signifying the vampire element (not to mention that there'll soon be a comic with Spike as a puppet!) - and of course it also somewhat softens the great big serious warrior thing that Odin brings to the table. (Also - how incredibly cute would a Muppet Odin be? It really is a very funny line!)
So - there are layers, see? Buffy is thinking about her great fallen vampire warrior poet, and - being Buffy and the AR no longer being an issue at all, kthnx! - she misses the sex. ‘Cause you know - she never had it so good as him. Never.
And that is all the meta I can manage for now.
*bows*
ETA: I don't think Buffy knows much - if anything - about Norse mythology. It's pure meta - Joss using her odd turn of phrase to let us into her mind. It's sex with Spike the Champion (whom she loved) that she misses, not Spike the Convenient (whom she used).
no subject
While I agree that she's probably thinking about Spike here (my earlier jokes about Riley aside), he's not the first comparison that sprang to mind, to be honest.
Odin = Xander.
Odin's most famous and distinctive trait is that he only has one eye. He lost the other in order to gain the gift of wisdom, just as by the end of S7 - and reinforced in the comic itself - Xander has beome the wisest of the Scoobies.
Odin is the Chooser of the Slain, the one who starts wars between humans so that the greatest warriors can prove their honour and worthiness to fight alongside him at the Apocalyse (Ragnarok). Liikewise we see Xander in his control room, ordering Slayers all around the world to go into battle.
Odin leads the Valkyries, warrior maidens. Xander, the Slayers. And at the start of the comic we see the Slayers riding into battle in helicopters, just like in the 'Ride of the Valkyries' scene from Apocalypse Now, which we know Joss has seen because of the pastiche in 'Restless'.
Odin hangs around with a couple of birds (Hugin and Munin). I'm sure Buffy and Xander have been in the UK long enough to pick up British slang...
And finally, I'm pretty sure Xander himself would be well aware of all this - he's already shown himself to be a science fiction/fantasy, comic book, roleplaying game geek. He may even have brought up the comparison to Odin himself in conversation with Buffy - and she remembered it, and used it as an expression herself.
no subject
Thank you! *g*
Odin = Xander.
Ah well I can see that, and all your reasons are very good. To be honest I'm not disputing any of it.
But... I'm not saying Spike = Odin. I'm more saying that there are great Spike associations with Odin... the madness, the fury, the poetry, the great warrior who sways the battle and then gets 'picked' by Odin to join him at Valhalla (I keep wanting to spell it 'Valhøll'...), which is how I think Buffy sees him - the big hero who brought victory to the war and now has gone to the great beyond and out of her reach.
Basically I'm interpreting it along the lines of Tara's 'Quasimodo' line in 'Crush' - the hidden meaning there purely for the sake of the viewer/reader, even though there are v. obvious straightforward reasons for what's being said (Buffy picking up the term 'Odin' from Xander).
no subject
Don't stop on my account... :) You can even call him Óðinn if you want.
Incidentally, that's why I was never upset with Buffy not breaking down in tears at thje end of Chosen. (Quite apart from the way it would have spoiled the whole 'happy ending' thing.) Spike died a hero's death - a real, mythological hero - and died the way he would have wanted to go. (In fact, we hear that from his own lips!)
no subject
Notice how sex comes after churros in her priority list?
;)
no subject
no subject
OMG!!! How - or where - do you get the 'ð' from? Its not *completely* correct of course, since it should have a little line through it (like a 't'), but it's far better than what usually used! (The letter is part of the Faroese alphabet btw, so I feel handicapped not having it on my keyboard... not that I use it much these days of course.)
that's why I was never upset with Buffy not breaking down in tears at thje end of Chosen.
Ditto. ::points to icon::
Spike died a hero's death - a real, mythological hero - and died the way he would have wanted to go.
Which also ties in with not going to see Buffy.
no subject
ð is ALT+0240. Ð is ALT+0208. There's also Æ and æ and Þ and þ. (I think of them as ash, eth and thorn from Old English (or æsc, eð and þorn from alde Ænglisc) and I don't know if Faroese uses them.
(Also, I didn't know that Faroese was a separate language - presumably closely related to Icelandic or Norwegian? - nor that you're from there; although your link to "webcams in the Faroes" is sort of a clue. Huh.)
no subject
Bother. Although we have a PC also, so I'll definitely write these down. Thank you very much!
I've actually got the list printed out and stuck to my desk
I'm not entirely sure if I'm impressed or worried! ;)
ð is ALT+0240. Ð is ALT+0208.
*makes notes* And yes we use æ and ø and various others such as á, ó and í to mention a few! But not Þ.
Also, I didn't know that Faroese was a separate language - presumably closely related to Icelandic or Norwegian?
Yes... I can get by in any Nordic country fairly easily. (Except Icelandic is surprisingly different - we did a little in school and most of the time we were all pretty much WTF? It could be teased out, but Icelandic is really *very* close to Old Norse.)
nor that you're from there; although your link to "webcams in the Faroes" is sort of a clue. Huh.
Heh. Well my parents are Danish, but they moved up there when I was only a baby, so it's where I grew up.