elisi | *That* line!

So, I’ve read a great number of posts about issue one of the ‘Season 8’ comics. Some like it, some hate it. But no one has done much about looking beneath the surface (and considering how short comics are, that’s not all that surprising). But me being me, I always - sooner or later - bring the meta. Even if it is just about a single line...

Enjoy!

(Cutting for the sake of spoiler phobes, but I think the line in question is rather neatly summed up by my icon! *g*)

“Great muppety Odin, I miss that sex.”

Yes, it made me laugh. I can also see why it makes some people cross, because it seems to mock our beloved Spike, and what he and Buffy had.

And then, yesterday, I suddenly looked at it again and went - hang on! This is Joss. And this is an important line - not to mention seriously weird at the same time. Surely it’s not just there for comic relief? And then - I remembered that Odin is the God of death...

So, I hunted him down on Wikipedia and found out that he’s the god of a lot of other things too:

Odin (Old Norse: Ódinn) is considered the chief god in Norse mythology and Norse paganism.

His name is related to ódr, meaning "mind", "excitation," "fury" or "poetry," and his role, like many of the Norse pantheon, is complex: he is god of wisdom, war, battle, and death. He is also attested as being a god of magic, poetry, prophecy, victory, and the hunt.

Odin is an ambivalent deity. Old Norse (Viking Age) connotations of Odin lie with "poetry, inspiration" as well as with "fury, madness."Odin gives to worthy poets the mead of inspiration, made by the dwarves, from the vessel Ód-rœrir.

Odin is associated with the concept of the Wild Hunt, a noisy, bellowing movement across the sky, leading a host of slain warriors.

Consistent with this, Snorri Sturluson's Prose Edda depicts Odin as welcoming the great dead warriors who have died in battle into his hall, Valhalla, which when literally interpreted, signifies the hall of the slain. These fallen, the einherjar, are assembled and entertained by Odin in order that they in return might fight for and support the gods in the final battle of the end of Earth, Ragnarök.

He is also a god of war, appearing throughout Norse myth as the bringer of victory. In the Norse sagas, Odin sometimes acts as the instigator of wars, and is said to have been able to start wars by simply throwing down his javelin Gungnir, and/or sending his valkyries, to influence the battle toward the end that he desires.

Ain’t that some interesting info? Most of which spells S-p-i-k-e to me... And you know what - I don’t think it’s coincidence. Not for one tiny little moment. Joss wants the comics to be considered canon, right? Well surely he’s doing his best to add some depth the the darn things!

Now the muppety bit is fairly simple... we have Count Dracula from The Muppets (obviously), as well as Angel turning into a puppet, both signifying the vampire element (not to mention that there'll soon be a comic with Spike as a puppet!) - and of course it also somewhat softens the great big serious warrior thing that Odin brings to the table. (Also - how incredibly cute would a Muppet Odin be? It really is a very funny line!)

So - there are layers, see? Buffy is thinking about her great fallen vampire warrior poet, and - being Buffy and the AR no longer being an issue at all, kthnx! - she misses the sex. ‘Cause you know - she never had it so good as him. Never.

And that is all the meta I can manage for now.

*bows*

ETA: I don't think Buffy knows much - if anything - about Norse mythology. It's pure meta - Joss using her odd turn of phrase to let us into her mind. It's sex with Spike the Champion (whom she loved) that she misses, not Spike the Convenient (whom she used).

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I was aware of what Odin was about ( not the whole explanation ,very interesting - which you give us here ) especially the legend that says that Odin welcomes in his realm of Valhalla the dead warriors , but didn't take it into great consideration. Not because Buffy wouldn't know who Odin is ( hey , she may know a bit of mythology ) but because i'm sure Joss didn't intent it that way.

I admit that those words 'i miss that sex ' did annoy me a bit. Although I admire how you 're forcing parallel lines to meet ( Buffy misses the unforgettable sex with Spike who has been his champion and great fallen vampire warrior poet. so she misses Spike ), I 'm not very happy with this teasing from Joss.
I never doubted that Buffy was thinking of Spike there , but honestly , there 's not so much to rejoice about if what she remembers the most ( or it seems that it's what Joss wants us to think ) is the amazing sexual encounters.

I'm grateful to J.Whedon in many ways but sadly i have little faith in him as a spuffy shipper and that doesn't convince me that i'm wrong.

Oh dear, it bothered me, too, for the same reasons. But I am SO trying to get over it.

Um, what I said to Caroline!

Yes we will get over it. :)
But I can't help thinking that it tastes like depreciating SpikeBuffy relationship.

*sigh* Yes, it is worrisome. At most, I was hoping that he will do nothing truly damaging to S/B. And, yes, this one stung, a bit, so I'm grasping at any Odin-shaped straw that I can.

But maybe we can give Joss a chance to redeem himself as the story unfolds. Maybe she already knows he's alive? That would make it a little different, (if still not really better)? Again, with the straw grasping.

At one point this weekend, I thought I should stay away from the comics altogether. We'll see. I think though, that any new storylines will keep the fandom going, and can be manipped by fanfic authors into anything we want, since I doubt he'll do anything truly destructive. Whether or not I'll read more of the new "canon" firsthand remains to be seen.

You know, I think Joss loves Spuffy - heck the way he waxes lyrical about them on the Chosen commentary I'd say he adores them in all their glorious, layered mystery - but I don't think he'll get them together until he's completely finished with the Buffy verse. He'll probably want Buffy to get a happy ending (with shanshued Spike), but for him that'd mean an end to the stories.

And, when I read your comment, I thought "Oh, jamalov feels this way, too", and I already felt better. Not that I should have been surprised. :->

Those who love S/B will make it happen by sheer force of will (and imagination) alone, if we have to, regardless of what they do in the new comic canon. Fists and fangs, all the way, just like Spike.

by sheer force of will (and imagination) alone, if we have to, regardless of what they do in the new comic canon. Fists and fangs, all the way, just like Spike. Nods profusely and takes your hand. :)

I love how you talk about them.
We already followed a torturous and sometimes agonizing trail when we started falling for Spike and Buffy together , now my armor is made of gold and platinum ..maybe a little thinner around the heart yet I should be able to take arrows. :)

What I said to Prophecygirrl. :)

i'm sure Joss didn't intent it that way.
Oh, but I'm sure he did! As

scarlettgirl pointed out, the text in comics is very sparse and every word needs to be considered carefully - like when writing a drabble or a poem.

but sadly i have little faith in him as a spuffy shipper and that doesn't convince me that i'm wrong.
Does this? It's re. the fade-to-black in 'Chosen' (Spike and Buffy in the basement, the last night) (bolded parts mine):

"...and to me it’s almost the most important shot in the show, because it shows the mystery of their relationship. And that’s one where I wanted the audience to fill in the blank - I wanted whatever you want to have happened, to have happened. If people believe that on their last night together they made love - great, if people believe that on their last night together they talked all night, if people believe they had a fight - great, whatever it is it’s up to the viewer. The viewer has earned that and I love that analytical nature... that there should be work for the viewer to do in that sense. Emotionally I think that makes it more textured, and that shot of the two of them looking at each other I just find that beautiful..."
Joss, Chosen commentary

the text in comics is very sparse and every word needs to be considered carefully - I agree , and there 's nothing wrong in trying to read much into the lines , but , dear Elisabeth , you won't convince me. :)

I liked Joss commentary on Chosen at the time , I just think that he 's not a believer in Spike/Buffy lasting relationship. It's finished. It has been when they were holding hands and sharing a last perfect, soulful, heartbreaking connection.
Joss loved them there and loved where he had lead them ( and us ) . As for what's going on right now in his mind , we can't be sure but.. Buffy talking about sex when remembering Spike is not very fine by me.

As for imagining that they made love during their last night , maybe they did , maybe they didn't..I really don't know.It doesn't really matter to me in the grand scheme of their love story. The way they looked at each other is enough .

Overall the comics is not that bad based on the reviews I've read. I'm a lot more terrified about a probable Angel season 6 (as a spuffy shipper speaking of course )

The way they looked at each other is enough .
Indeed.

Which of course again reminds me of my first thought when I read the 'muppet Odin' line... it's "I signalled her with my eyes" all over again. Joss loves making fun of any and all overblown romance.

I'm a lot more terrified about a probable Angel season 6 (as a spuffy shipper speaking of course )
Oh don't be - as long as they're not together Joss can't break them up!

with Spike who has been his champion
And it should have been her champion

..slaps head !

I never doubted that Buffy was thinking of Spike there , but honestly , there 's not so much to rejoice about if what she remembers the most ( or it seems that it's what Joss wants us to think ) is the amazing sexual encounters.

I'm grateful to J.Whedon in many ways but sadly i have little faith in him as a spuffy shipper and that doesn't convince me that i'm wrong.

What you said, jamalov.

That line!

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