Lockdown Update Day 336
I know lockdown is tough for many people but, as someone who’s been housebound for 15 years, suddenly life is quite a bit more accessible.
— Sally Doherty writes 👩💻 (@Sally_writes) February 14, 2021
I can attend writing workshops, order afternoon tea and tonight I watched musicals on IPlayer and I cried with happiness.
Hope you left your egg and Jif lemon out for Father Pancake last night 🤞 pic.twitter.com/XNQfGOnxAe
— VeryBritishProblems (@SoVeryBritish) March 5, 2019
With thanks to
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
shadowkat:#IStandWithRay Fisher & Charisma Carpenter..Movement (List of all the supporters to date) (She listed them all!)
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I've been thinking about the whole issue, because my main emotion is... relief? That maybe finally he'll face some consequences? I have zero emotional attachment to him at all. His shows? Yes. But Joss as a creator? Nope. And it wasn't any of the rumours or the skeevyness of Dollhouse (which I never watched) or any of that. Well. Of course I was aware and it became part of my general reason for pulling away from him, but the main reason, the thing I can't forgive? What he did to Buffy in the comics. (What he did to the whole 'verse.) If he could declare THAT canon, then... he wasn't the person I thought he was. What he saw when he looked at Buffy wasn't what I saw. (Maybe his original vision is what he gave us. I hope so. But to then tear that down and defile it?) (I'm sure the Whovians among you remember how cross I was with Kerblam! And that was [a single speech] in a single episode. I do not react well to writers betraying their characters.)
Although hey! I actually wrote an essay on this whole thing that very nearly got published! And I was SO POLITE.
The Whedonistas Essay that got away, aka 'BtVS Season 8: Please Mind the Gaps'
(Note: With every passing year I am more grateful that I escaped being associated with that dumpster fire.) (The comics/Joss, not the book! Many kudos to everyone who contributed.)
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Now, in looking through old tags I came across this link and I nearly DIED. Keep all liquids away from the keyboard. Here is s8 - try to work out which parts are actual plot & which are silly additions):
FIDDLEY BITS THEATER PRESENTS: SEASON 8:
(Going over old stuff also reminded me of Xander/Dracula. Of all the madness of s8 that particular ship was rather sweet. Also the very fact that I am writing Xander/Dracula - and that it was a HIGHLIGHT - helps to prove all my points I think.)
But since I'm wandering down memory lane, have a few more links:
How to Win Friends and Alienate Readers
Can I say that this latest is just reconfirming my impression that the comic has succumbed to the general boy's club-ish atmosphere of comics fandom?
(ETA: And it's weird, because he criticised that exact thing before.)
The negative space *around* Marti Noxon
(I was trying find 'How Come It's Never Joss' Fault? The Scapegoating of Female Creators in Pop Culture.' but this post discussing it is equally great.)
You Might Have Post-Traumatic Joss Syndrome...
(And that's just from being a fan.)
OK, it's late, I keep disappearing down rabbit holes. Mostly... I gave up on Joss more than 10 years ago. Maybe if he hadn't been fêted as a great feminist - when his work increasingly was the opposite - I'd have cared more.
After all we all expect our heroes to have feet of clay these days. Mind you, I think the least we can all hope that they don't actually jump into the pig sty, head first. :( Of course the current 'revelations' are about people and behaviour and not just writing. Which is far worse. *sigh* I hope he takes things to heart and actually learns something. If not for his own sake, then for others'.
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No idea if that made any sense. (It's late, I'm tired.) If you want more thoughts on the comics, just follow the tag!
Final thought: It's the 'casually cruel' description that gets me.
ETA (I forget what number): Also, I like this thread:
I think it's kind of amazing that the actors who played the Trio made a collective statement in support of the allegations against Whedon. That's just, like, so incredibly meta
— Dr. Ellie Lockhart is the protagonist (@BootlegGirl) February 16, 2021
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You never know. Maybe one day. I mean, I like subversive stuff, but... combined with all the other things it just never appealed.
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I'd like to know in how many other workplaces would it ever have been allowed in the first place? And then it reminded me of how Stephen Colbert drinks alcohol on camera on broadcast TV (albeit late night) and the depth of problems in the industry seems insurmountable.
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I can't think of... any job where that would be acceptable. :O
And then it reminded me of how Stephen Colbert drinks alcohol on camera on broadcast TV (albeit late night) and the depth of problems in the industry seems insurmountable.
I think it can be done. But it needs effort. And will people be willing to do the work?
:(
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Whedon was attached to an ME project that will be on HBO later this year. But left it before the first season even aired, citing a time crunch. Wonder if that was because the shit was about to hit the fan.
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You're welcome. I seem to have posted nothing bug Joss-related links the past few days.
But these discussions are the ones we were having back in the day, though with much less direct information/much more speculation than is happening currently.
Yup, it's all very familiar. (Sadly.)
And at the risk of drawing attention away from Joss' abuse of women, I remember that Marsters alluded to the toxic environment on set/Joss' cruelty while Buffy was still airing.
I think it's all part of the same thing, so whilst the women bore the brunt [some of] the men weren't exempt.
And much of Xander's arc in the later seasons seemed to be life leaking into art.
I was just speculating on Warren, and how much he reflected things.
That it's taken so long to really blow up, sigh.
As Marti Noxon says here:
One of the worst things about experiencing gender discrimination, hostile work environments and sexual harassment over the many years of my career was that I was usually believed.
Let me repeat that. I was absolutely believed by most people.
Whedon was attached to an ME project that will be on HBO later this year. But left it before the first season even aired, citing a time crunch. Wonder if that was because the shit was about to hit the fan.
*nods* Maybe the build-up was just beginning to be visible. Either way, here's to hoping he won't make people miserable any longer.
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*nods* Maybe the build-up was just beginning to be visible. Either way, here's to hoping he won't make people miserable any longer.
Yes. He was fired by the Warner Brothers (behind HBO) in November 2020 as a direct result of the investigations at WB regarding what happened on Justice League. He also left social media at the exact same time. They hired a new show-runner, a female and noted British writer and activist.
Justice League is the reason this all came out - actually it's Zack Snyder and his original cut of Justice League that most likely prompted it. Fisher pressed his allegations against Whedon at the same time, Snyder pressed for HBO and WB to distribute his version of Justice League. Fisher was Cyborg in Justice League, and it was his allegations and law suit against Warner that pulled in CC.
The rest - I think shocked everyone - because Amber, MT, SMG et all aren't truly friends of CC nor were they involved at all with the investigations, nor was Marti. If they hadn't come forward, people would have been skeptical, because the timing is insanely convenient for Snyder.
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Huh. Yeah, don't follow those news at all...
If they hadn't come forward, people would have been skeptical, because the timing is insanely convenient for Snyder.
Hmmm, interesting. Although who knows what else has been going on that we don't know about. Correlation does not imply causation.
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Oh goodness, yes.
I think it's kind of amazing that the actors who played the Trio made a collective statement in support of the allegations against Whedon. That's just, like, so incredibly meta
SO META. I love that they did it together. That's a statement in itself.
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IKR? And it's sort of freeing. I have my Buffy.
SO META. I love that they did it together. That's a statement in itself.
They are all, as far as I am aware, good & decent people. <3
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WE DID! She's ours. (Watches S/B/A OT3 video ♥ - called 'Ours', are you familiar?)
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Buffy and her vampires <3<3<3
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\o/
Buffy and her vampires <3<3<3
It's just so LOVELY. (S/B/A is the best ship.)
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But it was Age of Ultron that finally convinced me that Joss was gross and Not To Be Trusted. I've gone into that in detail before, so I won't touch on it now, but yeah.
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Understandable - just thinking about it makes my head hurt, the subject is that wide and complex. Of course the sexual violence is partly built in, due to it being about vampires, but it spills out in all kinds of other places.
I think there were moments all along where Joss betrayed himself. Bits and pieces that were easy to ignore when you saw the forest in spite of the trees until the moment you couldn't do it anymore.
*nods* And somehow the word 'problematic' is just what gets slapped on, which feels wildly inadequate. Hopefully in future we ill be better at labelling these things.
For me, it was the combination of his treatment of Cordelia in S4 and Fred in S5. I hated what they did to Cordelia, but then he killed off Fred and literally killed her soul. I'm not sure what I believe these days, religiously speaking, but I do believe in an immortal soul, and that was just beyond the pale for me.
Killing Fred wasn't enough, she had to be destroyed completely. And what for? More man!pain? I agree that it was too much, and underlined the way all the women met terrible fates. The 'better' the woman the worse the fate, seemingly. :(
But it was Age of Ultron that finally convinced me that Joss was gross and Not To Be Trusted. I've gone into that in detail before, so I won't touch on it now, but yeah.
I remember. Above all, it was so unnecessary. MEH. What's the point of being talented if it only ends up hurting people?
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I missed the comics...sounds like that was a good thing on my part. Gods...
*HUGS*
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You're welcome! <3
I missed the comics...sounds like that was a good thing on my part. Gods...
Ooooh yes. Just - don't look. I've done my best to make myself forget.
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I must confess to never paying attention to that part, except as part of a more general rage at what Marvel did to the Norse Gods overall. But I definitely understand where you are coming from, and it's a BAD line. The one people usually focus on is Natasha's line about being monstrous due to being infertile, and both are just... painfully tone deaf. >:(
but some friends of mine ADORED his shows.
Aye, his fans are legion. I've been there, I understand.
Like made me watch Firefly/Serenity, which were, okay, I guess? Not my personal thing but yay I'm glad you like it,
Ah yes I do love those, but even at the time the problematic aspects were easily visible.
and another singing the praises of Dollhouse and I read the back of the DVD box and thought, em, this is creepy and weird in a Bad Way, as opposed to creepy and weird in a Good Way.
Yeah, never been able to make myself watch it. Despite people telling me it's very meta, and I'd love it.
He's lost me as a fan years back but I'm so fucking angry for the people who believed he was this feminist god and could do no wrong. And for the fans who are feeling so betrayed.
Yeah, it's the fact of taking the adulation for being feminist on the one hand and being casually cruel to women on the other. I hope there aren't too many fans left who were still blinded. That's a bit like never spotting the signs of JKR's problematic stuff.
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Stacey
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It was all a bit 'nudge-nudge-wink-wink' rather than sexytiems, but (from what I remember) Xander stayed with Dracula after his girlfriend got killed. Not entirely sure he went of his own free will (details SO HAZY), but the overall impression was more of Xander feeling sorry for Dracula (who was old and lonely) and became a friend/companion. Like I said, it was rather sweet in a crack!fic kinda way.
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Oh, that doesn't sound so bad.
Stacey
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No worries. It's 2021.
Oh, that doesn't sound so bad.
It was the pretty much the only thing I liked. Which isn't saying much, but it was sweet.