More links! :D

[elisi]

I am off to see The Last Jedi again in a little while (\o/), but before I go a few more links (all via my flist - thank you!):

Star Wars: The Return of the Stakes, or The Failure Frontier
(Fascinating. And long. But seriously. Fascinating.)

Luke Skywalker Isn’t Supposed to Be “Nice”
This one almost made me cry. It also pointed out how Luke hiding away is not 'running away' (which it looks like), but actually makes sense. Plus, it provides the best summary of the movie's themes that I have seen: the film is examining heroism as a concept, as a systematic construct that binds the very people it should comfort.

Also a very thought provoking vid, mostly focussing on the original 6 movies (no spoilers for TLJ except for a few shots from the trailer):

Watch on YouTube

ETA: Also one of the best explorations/explanations of Anakin's fall to the dark side.

(I think I will be making a master post with all the links I have posted so far...)

Comments

[elisi]

I do want to point out that Anakin DOES have a problem with attachment in that he is possessive. He loves Padme more as a 'thing' or an idealised vision ("angel") than an actual person. It's perfectly understandable (see everything in this video) but that doesn't make it right.
Oh yes, it's... problematic as heck, but also that's part of the issue? That this is how it's framed for him?

One thing that struck me is how much more problematic the prequels are than the originals? Like, this might be on purpose, but there is so much toxic masculinity in the prequels. :(

And in the end, his possessive jealousy explodes into violence and recrimination in a very realistic and tragic way. The Jedi may be wrong about suppressing feelings but that doesn't mean they don't have a point about clinging to people for the wrong reasons.
I love how nuanced TLJ is in dealing with all this. <3

[sea_thoughts]

One thing that struck me is how much more problematic the prequels are than the originals? Like, this might be on purpose, but there is so much toxic masculinity in the prequels. :(

There really is, so I think it must have been deliberate. But it's just handled SO poorly. I can't tell if it's because of the time in which they were made or because nobody told George what sucked and what didn't.

That's one of the reasons I liked TLJ so much, it tackles the same problem but with so much more nuance and insight instead of going "EMOTIONS ARE BAD! SUPPRESS YOUR EMOTIONS! OH SHIT, HE'S MURDERING EVERYONE, HOW DID THAT HAPPEN?"

[elisi]

There really is, so I think it must have been deliberate. But it's just handled SO poorly. I can't tell if it's because of the time in which they were made or because nobody told George what sucked and what didn't.
Probably the latter, considering ALL THE OTHER ISSUES. /o\

That's one of the reasons I liked TLJ so much, it tackles the same problem but with so much more nuance and insight instead of going "EMOTIONS ARE BAD! SUPPRESS YOUR EMOTIONS! OH SHIT, HE'S MURDERING EVERYONE, HOW DID THAT HAPPEN?"
LOL. I shall alway summarise Anakin's fall like that from now on. :D

[sea_thoughts]

*lol* Glad to be of assistance.

And someone found an article talking about Jedi relationships and attachment!

The important quote: "Jedi Knights aren't celibate - the thing that is forbidden is attachments - and possessive relationships."

In other words, marriage might not actually be out of the question and Anakin got the wrong end of the stick (wouldn't be the first time).

[elisi]

Hmmm.

I'd say that he could have kept Padme as a lover, but not a wife. Marriage is a commitment, a formal attachment. It's one of the reasons Catholic priests aren't allowed to marry, they shouldn't be conflicted - because if, f.ex. their child is sick then that will create a conflict if a parishioner is sick and needs to see them. They are married to the job.

And it's interesting that Rose, pretty much instinctively, understands the distinction that the Jedi were probably after. That Finn is wrong to abandon the cause just to save his friend. (And then of course the film goes onto delve into that distinction, and how it all works and how complicated it is.)

[sea_thoughts]

Okay, the Catholic priest analogy works (kinda).

Rose, pretty much instinctively, understands the distinction that the Jedi were probably after. That Finn is wrong to abandon the cause just to save his friend. (And then of course the film goes onto delve into that distinction, and how it all works and how complicated it is.)

As Cassian says to Jyn (in Rogue One) "Some of us live this Rebellion. I've been in this fight since I was six years old. You're not the only one who lost everything. Some of us just decided to do something about it."

[elisi]

Okay, the Catholic priest analogy works (kinda).
It was the nearest one to hand...

"Some of us live this Rebellion. I've been in this fight since I was six years old. You're not the only one who lost everything. Some of us just decided to do something about it."
I LOVE that line. She's so self-righteous, and he shoots her down so beautifully. Of course, killing on demand is not something to be admired, but it deals very nicely in shades of grey.

[sea_thoughts]

Yup. You can't just care about the Revolution when it's convenient for you. That's not the point.

[elisi]

And The Last Jedi goes out of its way to hammer this point in. :)

[sea_thoughts]

Ugh, it's just such a good movie!! *chews over everything* Even the stuff I don't necessarily like, I can at least talk about it instead of dismissing it as "this was just lazy/poor/offensive writing"

[elisi]

I wish I could live inside it, just... *hands*

And yes, I agree - we can delve down into it, rather than just try to ignore it.

Am about to post this link (well, in a bit. Maybe tomorrow). But for you now, in case you haven't come across it yet:

https://www.tor.com/2018/01/10/wow-people-are-really-mad-at-poe-dameron/