DW 9.05. The Girl Who Died

[elisi]

Sorry this is so late, and scattered/basic. But it’s been a busy week... Mostly I'm just skimming the surface, picking out the main things I can see, without delving below in any kind of detail.

OTOH then Vikings/Norse mythology is stuff I am good with. (Nordic girl here.)

The Girl Who Died
The first thing to note is that we are in a world where stories and dreams have power:

ASHILDR: You're back! All of you! Are all of you back?
NOLLARR: I suppose so, I haven't counted.
HASTEN: I'm back!
(Another, younger Viking hugs the girl.)
ASHILDR: I had a dream you'd all died. It was so real, I thought I'd made it happen.
NOLLARR: Well, if it ever does, I'm sure you'll a find some way to blame yourself.

I'm honestly not sure how to structure this. I want to do subheadings, but everything is connected... If I could contruct my posts in 3D, so I could show you how the connections look in my head, I would.


Ashildr
Her name means ‘Odin’s Valkyrie’ - or, to pick that apart a bit more:

Ashildr combines ‘As’ (god) and ‘Hildr’ (now ‘Hildur’ - it’s a common name in the Faroes), meaning ‘battle’. Hild, a Nordic-German Bellona, was a Valkyrie who conveyed fallen warriors to Valhalla. Warfare was often called Hild's Game.

The Norse gods were known as ‘Asar’ - that's where the 'As' comes from, and it’s the word that’ll mutate to ‘Os’, thus tying Ashildr in with Oswin (= god’s friend), Oswald (= god’s power) and Osgood:

Osgood comes from ‘Asgautr’ - composed of the elements ás ‘god’ + the tribal name Gaut (or Goth). (Gautr can also mean ‘creator’. Which would men that Osgood’s name would be ‘divine creator’. No wonder she doesn’t need a first name!)

So we have these three women, all tied together - and tied to the Doctor - by a shared name. And all of them hybrids in some way... Osgood of course has/had a Zygon double, Ashildr is now part-Mire and Clara... Well, she's probably Dalek-y and also somewhat Time Lord-y (nanobots in the Dalek; jumping into the Doctor's time stream probably left a mark somewhere etc.). We had the image of Ashildr with the Mire head seeing through their eyes, changing what they saw - definitely echoes of Clara inside the Dalek, although much more powerful parallels when we go back to Oswin.

Also, talking about hybrids, then Ashildr was one already:

ASHILDR: 'I've always been different. All my life I've known that. The girls all thought I was a boy. The boys all said I was just a girl. My head is always full of stories. I know I'm strange. Everyone knows I'm strange.'

But the most important part of that speech might be these words:

'But here I'm loved.'

She is strange, and odd - but accepted. Loved. And that is vital, and a lesson more people need to learn.

Tell a different story that's how you win.

('“As above, so below,” the injunction goes - a declaration that manipulating symbols and manipulating objects is, in some sense, the same thing. That a symbol and a thing are in some sense interchangeable.' Phil Sandifer)

Part of me wants to write a ton about Ashildr. The other parts of me are conscious of the fact that a) we only know half her story so far and b) there are only 4 hours until the next episode... So I'll leave it here.

Mind you, the very title 'The Girl Who Died' is all-over Clara.


Clara
First of all, Clara as Hanged Man (for the second time - she's up-side down in the opening shot), once more marking her as someone thinking through life, working out where they're at. ('This is the archetype to meditate on to help break old patterns of behaviour and bad habits that restrict you. The Hanged Man reflects a need to suspend action, and as a result, a period of indecision may be indicated. Decisions or actions that need to be implemented will be postponed, even if, at the time, there is a sense of urgency to act.') Her deep intent on travelling should maybe be seen in the light of this? An overt focus on her 'hobby' as she figures out what she actually wants.

Second, her mirroring. We can see the move from Magician's Apprentice to Witch's Familiar. Missy nearly gets her killed through ruthlessness/insanity, but Clara is a good pupil. We can see how she's absorbed the lessons in her little 'Work out how you're going to win' speech.

She is beginning to work very much like River - trusting him completely to find a way out. Clara's Missy-prompted: 'Because he always assumes he's going to win. He always knows there's a way to survive. He just has to go and find it.' is just another way of stating River's perfectly assured 'There's always a way out'.

(Also see my 'Missy & River are her Evil Stepmother/Fairy Godmother' thoughts in my previous meta.)

Third - spacesuit. It's the 'Waters of Mars' spacesuit again. (I'll get back to this in my Doctor section.) Last it appeared was 'Hide', which had all the mirrors ever. There, Eleven was showing it off, and Clara said it made her eyes hurt. (This time she shows it off herself.) Then, she grasped something fundamental about the Doctor as he stepped through human history ('We're all ghosts to you'), but now she has - a) scattered herself over his time line, and b) in many ways learned to see the world through his eyes. ('Oh, Clara Oswald what have I made of you?' the Doctor asks.) There's a fascinating short post here, looking at how the Doctor and Clara have almost swapped places here, when it comes to the Dr/companion dynamic.

I think abossycontrolfreak is onto something with her idea that Clara is going to become some kind of mythical figure. She is still human, yes, but there is all this talk of hybrids, and her mirrors are (have always been) the Doctor, Missy, River. She is a quantum creature, a hybrid [symbolically] from the start, a Companion apart.

Also, speaking of the spacesuit, her whole speak & spiel was pure Doctor, talking her way out of the situation. She claimed to *be* him in Death in Heaven, and she does a pretty good job...


The Doctor
So, Odin. First of all, this, because I realised that maybe not everyone has seen 'Monty Python and the Holy Grail' and thus would not get the reference...

Also, I want to just briefly acknowledge the pure and utter craziness of the plot, and its resolution. <3 <3 <3 Darcy was spluttering going 'Electric eels don't do that!' and I was laughing, saying how this is the show that reverses the polarity of the neutron flow, AND THEN THE DOCTOR SAID THAT EXACTLY AND I NEARLY DIED.

Please take as a given that I loved all the silliness, the daftness, all the little touches. Instead of flailing I shall focus on mythology and mirrors.

Because oh, Odin... The two fake Odins. Except one wasn't a fake - or rather, his lie had layers. They both pretended to be a Norse god, but in reality the Mire leader was merely a warrior, whereas the Doctor can - in many ways - lay claim to god-hood of his own...

I like this website's summary of Odin:

Odin is one of the most complex and enigmatic characters in Norse mythology, and perhaps in all of world literature. He’s the chief of the Aesir tribe of deities, yet he often ventures far from their kingdom, Asgard, on long, solitary wanderings throughout the cosmos on purely self-interested quests. He’s a relentless seeker after and giver of wisdom, but he has little regard for communal values such as justice, fairness, or respect for law and convention. He’s the divine patron of rulers, and also of outcasts. He’s a war-god, but also a poetry-god, and he has prominent transgender qualities that would bring unspeakable shame to any traditional Norse/Germanic warrior. He’s worshiped by those in search of prestige, honor, and nobility, yet he’s often cursed for being a fickle trickster.
[...]
Whatever their social stature, the men and women favored by Odin are distinguished by their intelligence, creativity, and competence in the proverbial “war of all against all.” Whether such people become kings or criminals is mostly a matter of luck.

I'm sure the Doctor-y parallels are pretty obvious. ;) Also his wife, Frigg, is described as a goddess associated with foreknowledge and wisdom - which is so delightfully River-y that I'll just leave it here. :)

There is the one-eyed thing (I finally love the sunglasses!) - the 'real' Odin gave up an eye in exchange for wisdom. (Whole story here. We can also see this as another parallel to Davros, with his Third eye, giving up conventional sight. Plus, Dorium Moldovar as Mimir is amusing me now.)

Over 170 names are recorded for Odin. These names are variously descriptive of attributes of the god, refer to myths involving him, or refer to religious practices associated with the god. This multitude of names makes Odin the god with the most names known among the Germanic peoples. Here are a few that I picked out as particularly fitting with the Doctor:

- 'Father of men' (or of the age/world)//'Allfather'. Again, we see him as a father figure, this ties in with how he steals Davros’ seat in the opener, where of course Davros is ‘the father of all Daleks’.

- 'Delight of Frigg'/'Dweller in Frigg's Embrace' (just ‘cause I like it. River. <3)

- 'Father of Magical Songs'

- 'Wise One', concealer

- Wanderer or Wayweary

- Deceiver/Riddler

- Swift in Deceit, Swift Tricker, Maddener, Wise in magical spells

- God Protector

- Hooded, Masked One

There are so many! Also lots about war. But the name thing is important. (See A Good Man Goes to War and every instance of 'Doctor Who?')

However, as people know, he's also the god of the dead, his Valkyries collecting the [most worthy] warriors fallen in battle, bringing them to Valhalla. Also:

His mastery of necromancy, the magical art of communicating with and raising the dead, is frequently noted.

(This makes Under the Lake/Before the Flood relevant! Dead/resurrected people are a theme. Hurrah. It also ties in with Missy's storyline & the Nethersphere, and Danny. Bringing people back is not a good thing.)

Here, however, he literally becomes Odin; a god, raising the dead...

And of all the things I was expecting this season, this wasn't it:





You can see the Pompeii episode as foreshadowing for Water of Mars, if you like (the Doctor and Donna end up as literal 'household gods' to the Roman family they save), but to revisit the Doctor's Victoriousness now? Oh, I'm THRILLED. (RTD themes revisited by Moffat are like my favourite thing in the world.)

Because although people grow and learn, their flaws do not change. And oh, these two scenes echo each other beautifully:

CLARA: You did your best. She died. There's nothing you can do.
DOCTOR: I can do anything. There's nothing I can't do. Nothing. But I'm not supposed to. Ripples, tidal waves, rules. I'm not supposed to. Oh. Oh!
[...]
DOCTOR: To remind me. To hold me to the mark. I'm the Doctor, and I save people.
(He shouts at the sky - at the Time Lords?)
DOCTOR: And if anyone happens to be listening, and you've got any kind of a problem with that, to hell with you!

~
ADELAIDE: But you said we die. For the future, for the human race.
DOCTOR: Yes, because there are laws. There are Laws of Time. Once upon a time there were people in charge of those laws, but they died. They all died. Do you know who that leaves? Me! It's taken me all these years to realise the Laws of Time are mine, and they will obey me!
[...]
ADELAIDE: Is there nothing you can't do?
DOCTOR: Not any more.

But the difference is that this time the Doctor knows enough, has come far enough to see himself clearly.




(x)

He's not going to go off like Ten did... But he still made the same kind of mistake.

Going back to the idea of hubris as one of the key-words for this season, and Clara & Twelve as Ten and Rose, we can see Twelve 'saving' Ashildr very much in the light of Rose saving Jack. Done out of the best of motives, but using power not quite within their control... And it looks like Ashildr will not be as forgiving as the good Captain. (I've tried to stay away from spoilers, so please don't tell me everything that'll happen tonight!)

Comments

[enevarim]

Dorium Moldovar as Mimir is amusing me now.
– You have just won the internets. Yes, again.

[elisi]

– You have just won the internets. Yes, again.
YAY! I love the internets. Now, how to get rid of 4chan...

[rustydragonfly.livejournal.com]

Not gonna lie, I yelled "OH DON'T GROVEL" when Odin showed up.

And nevermind that electric eels don't work that way, they're native to South America! What are they doing with Vikings? WHO CARES? BECAUSE DOCTOR WHO. THAT'S WHAT.

And too much of a girl for the boys, too much of a boy for the girls, and with a head full of stories? Ashildr is me. And I'm not letting fandom take her away from me!

[elisi]

Not gonna lie, I yelled "OH DON'T GROVEL" when Odin showed up.
I had high hopes for this episode. But the second Sky!Odin showed up, the rest could have been pants I would have loved it forever. <3

And nevermind that electric eels don't work that way, they're native to South America! What are they doing with Vikings? WHO CARES? BECAUSE DOCTOR WHO. THAT'S WHAT.
THIS. THIS EXACTLY!

And too much of a girl for the boys, too much of a boy for the girls, and with a head full of stories? Ashildr is me. And I'm not letting fandom take her away from me!
That's what I forgot to mention. She's already a hybrid, someone not fitting into the categories. Thanks! *runs off to fix* (And I think a lot of people are Ashildr.)

[promethia_tenk]

And too much of a girl for the boys, too much of a boy for the girls, and with a head full of stories? Ashildr is me. And I'm not letting fandom take her away from me!
Ashildr is also Amy:

'You're in the most trouble of anyone in this school, apart from boys."
"And you!"
"I count as a boy?"

And a head full of stories, to be sure. Amy also had the ability to make stories real.

[sea_thoughts]

My reaction to the Doctor's decision to save Ashildr. *points at icon* My tagline for this episode on Tumblr is "That distant WHAT THE FUCK WERE YOU THINKING is Jack Harkness btw". I don't think Jack was exactly forgiving but they were stuck at the end of the universe and trying to save the rest of the human race. That tends to focus you somewhat. He still gave the Doctor some verbal hell for it.

When Odin appeared, all I could think of was Monty Python and the Holy Grail! *cries with laughter*

This episode was the opposite of the previous two: seemed very simple and yet produced a WEALTH of reflection. Lofty reminded me so much of Rory, the blacksmith with a baby... and of course the Doctor had to get involved once a child started crying.

[elisi]

My reaction to the Doctor's decision to save Ashildr. *points at icon*
Yeah, you're not wrong... Like, it's 100% understandable, BUT.

My tagline for this episode on Tumblr is "That distant WHAT THE FUCK WERE YOU THINKING is Jack Harkness btw".
LOL. (And oh my god, please Santa Moff give us Ashildr/Jack. Or at least Ashildr AND Jack.)

I don't think Jack was exactly forgiving but they were stuck at the end of the universe and trying to save the rest of the human race. That tends to focus you somewhat. He still gave the Doctor some verbal hell for it.
Well, he was also hero-worshipping the Doctor/in love. And from what I saw of the next time trailer, Ashildr relegates the Doctor to 'sidekick', whereas Jack was always grateful to tag along. But then Jack was screwed up before he found the Doctor, whereas Ashildr was very secure in her place in the world.

This episode was the opposite of the previous two: seemed very simple and yet produced a WEALTH of reflection
*nods a LOT* I've been BUSY, but also just been trying to sort through stuff in my head and I only just began to get s grasp of everything now...

Lofty reminded me so much of Rory, the blacksmith with a baby...
There are a lot of Rory-mirrors. Bennett was another. I like that. Men who are comfortable not being testosterone-fulled meatheads.

and of course the Doctor had to get involved once a child started crying.
!!! I can't believe I didn't think of that. Of course.

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[elisi]

Blimey. Lots of people must be tracking my review tag. Or something...

[ragnarok-08.livejournal.com]

She is beginning to work very much like River - trusting him completely to find a way out. Clara's Missy-prompted: 'Because he always assumes he's going to win. He always knows there's a way to survive. He just has to go and find it.' is just another way of stating River's perfectly assured 'There's always a way out'.

I agree with you there, and that brings up a very good parallel there.

[elisi]

Different wording, same essence. (Not sure that's the right word, brain malfunctioning a little.)

Although Clara is a little more concerned about her own welfare than River, judging by that little scene at the beginning. ;)

[a-phoenixdragon.livejournal.com]

'But here I'm loved' puts me in a mind that elsewhere she wasn't. Not that she surmised she wouldn't be. Or that she SAW she wouldn't be. She knew for a fact that she wasn't because she had experienced that.

Actually, Clara has claimed to be him twice during Twelve's Era at least. Flippantly, the first time. But I notice he didn't correct her. Being in his Time-stream, she does somewhat qualify AS the Doctor. And she has definitely mirrored him and seen through his eyes. She has always been his ghost. But it was only after she made that observation that she fully became one, even as she never fully disappeared.

I love the crazy/inexplicable of this show. a lot of people don't, but I feel if it doesn't do that, it is taking itself too seriously and it changes the way the show FEELS. The hardcore science, mixed psuedo, mixed with the out-right SILLY gives this show the loving, sweet feel it SHOULD. Children get that. Most adults don't. None of us would love DW if it didn't have that silliness. The Doctor acknlowedging it makes it more of a joke shared between him and the audience. Not as him poking fun at the audience - which is a whole different thing. I love it myself...

I like that idea - the Doctor as Odin. It does fit in so many ways. And really, he has a yo-yo. So he wins. *Sniffs*

Ohh, yes!! That moment with half of the sonic-sunglasses gave me the shivers...and you just gave me another!! Thank you for that!! And yes...'A Good Man Goes to War' has ALL OF THESE DESCRIPTORS. Even as we know that the Good Man was Rory and the Doctor was the distraction. IMHO, anyway *chuckles*

I love that he knows WHY he has that face. And yet, my claims to Pond-hood still hold up 'I was emotional and it is possible I made a mistake.'

Amy: You get emotional and that's when you make mistakes.
Edris: Ah, that's what the Orangey Girl said. Stop it. You're being emotional.

All of it tying together. He is the same man, even as he changes and grows and learns. There were a lot of people bitching about his 'angsty' moment. I LOVED that. Twelve is one long denial of that moment. His whole regeneration, his reactions and responses are denial of that angsty moment. The moment he questions and gives up and then rallies again. I'm glad he had that. I loved him before, but I love him even more now. That fierce fire he always denies, but he is comprised of. He needs to face it, face himself and know he can make mistakes, but he still TRIES. Because he is the Doctor.

As for the hybrid...this isn't the first he's hand a hand in. But it is the first he has had a direct hand in. Food for thought, that...

*HUGS*

Thank you for another wonderful meta...thank you, thank you, thank you!!

[elisi]

'But here I'm loved' puts me in a mind that elsewhere she wasn't. Not that she surmised she wouldn't be. Or that she SAW she wouldn't be. She knew for a fact that she wasn't because she had experienced that.
Hmmm. I hadn't thought of it in that light.

Actually, Clara has claimed to be him twice during Twelve's Era at least. Flippantly, the first time. But I notice he didn't correct her.
... I'm pretty sure he said 'Oh no you didn't!' ;)

Being in his Time-stream, she does somewhat qualify AS the Doctor. And she has definitely mirrored him and seen through his eyes. She has always been his ghost. But it was only after she made that observation that she fully became one, even as she never fully disappeared.
Yeah, there's... A lot of fuzzy edges around her. (If you know what I mean?)

I love the crazy/inexplicable of this show. a lot of people don't, but I feel if it doesn't do that, it is taking itself too seriously and it changes the way the show FEELS. The hardcore science, mixed psuedo, mixed with the out-right SILLY gives this show the loving, sweet feel it SHOULD. Children get that. Most adults don't.
As Four said: "What the point of being a grown-up if you can't be childish sometimes?" (By which I mean: Amen. Although grown-ups ought to get it!)

I like that idea - the Doctor as Odin. It does fit in so many ways. And really, he has a yo-yo. So he wins. *Sniffs*
It was a moment of much beauty.

Ohh, yes!! That moment with half of the sonic-sunglasses gave me the shivers...and you just gave me another!! Thank you for that!!
My pleasure!

And yes...'A Good Man Goes to War' has ALL OF THESE DESCRIPTORS.
Norse mythology is brill. Esp because it's actually something I know something about... ;)

I love that he knows WHY he has that face. And yet, my claims to Pond-hood still hold up 'I was emotional and it is possible I made a mistake.'
Bless him. At least River managed to teach him something.

All of it tying together. He is the same man, even as he changes and grows and learns. There were a lot of people bitching about his 'angsty' moment. I LOVED that. Twelve is one long denial of that moment. His whole regeneration, his reactions and responses are denial of that angsty moment. The moment he questions and gives up and then rallies again. I'm glad he had that.
Phil Sandifer put it beautifully:

'The scenes where the Doctor angsts to Clara about events are all electrifyingly good. Much of this is Capaldi, who plays both scenes as a man grappling with the inertia of depression. But it’s also down to the writing, which, as with the closing scenes of Mummy on the Orient Express and Flatline, is adept at picking what ideas to tell instead of showing. Mathieson picks lines like “I’m sick of losing people.” Really, that entire scene is amazing - the Doctor anticipating and dreading his inevitable eventual mourning of Clara’s departure, the way it contrasts with his earlier use of her as an example of someone he’s reshaped. It’s stuff that’s obvious in the sense of being self-evident, but it’s not obvious in the sense of being a cliche. It’s a small and simple thing - the same angst displayed whenever the Doctor sulks over losing a companion - but moved to a position in the narrative where it’s an unexpected nuance. And the overall take on the Doctor is genuinely impressive. Instead of being self-loathing and self-pitying, the Doctor is just exhausted by the centuries. A good man who is worn out.'

He needs to face it, face himself and know he can make mistakes, but he still TRIES. Because he is the Doctor.
This.

As for the hybrid...this isn't the first he's hand a hand in. But it is the first he has had a direct hand in. Food for thought, that...
If you mean Jack, then he isn't a hybrid, he's a fixed point. Although there are several hybrid candidates. River for starters.

Thank you for another wonderful meta...thank you, thank you, thank you!!
Thank YOU for the long & thoughtful response.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

Misplaced electric eels or no (I'm still not sure if the people at BBC think there are electric eels in Scandinavia, or if they just think all eels are electric), this was a really good episode, but your analysis adds even more too it. I hadn't caught on to the Osgood=Asgautr thing (partly because I was too annoyed at them consistently mispronouncing "Ashildr" as "Ash-ildur"). Still, best viking episode since "Selfless".

Tell a different story that's how you win.

ETA: Reading "Osgood" as "creator of gods" and meshing it with "The Big Bang", there's something to be said for storytellers as being the source of gods. ETA2: And traditionally, the way you become a god is, step 1: Come back from the dead.

The Davros-Odin parallel is brilliant, too - though Davros was never the wisest of creator gods, was he? ETA 2: Of course, Odin ended up being mostly displaced by his loud, boisterous, smash-everything-that-moves son...

So is the Doctor's purpose this season to seek the holy grail? (Aren't there mythological connections between the Fisher King and King Arthur?) And if so, is there any chance we'll get Alex Kingston in the role of identical twin sisters Zoot and Dingo? :)

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

ETA3 or something: Looking over the transcript, the word "face" is all over the story, both in dialogue and imagery, in fake Odin's projection...
On my face, right now, more advanced technology than your species will manage over the next nine million years.
The joy of war! Can't you see it on my face?
Turn your face towards me, Mother, for you're beautiful.
Hey, hello, hi! I'm the Doctor. It's lovely to meet you face to, er, convincing hologram.
I know where I got this face, and I know what it's for.

The big reveal, apparently, being the Doctor realising why he took on this particular face. But Ashildr defeats the aliens by literally putting on one of their faces. There's some very sneaky religious imagery in this, the face of God being both horrible and wondrous, always the same and ever changing... But of course, anyone who thinks they can act like a god may come across as a bit of an as. (Sorry.)

[elisi]

Misplaced electric eels or no (I'm still not sure if the people at BBC think there are electric eels in Scandinavia, or if they just think all eels are electric)
They needed electric eels for the sake of the plot. Ergo there were electric eels.

this was a really good episode, but your analysis adds even more too it.
♥

I hadn't caught on to the Osgood=Asgautr thing
I kept meaning to look up her name, but never got round to it. UNTIL NOW.

(partly because I was too annoyed at them consistently mispronouncing "Ashildr" as "Ash-ildur").
I never worked out what her name was until I looked it up afterwards. I still read it differently to what they say. BUT WHAT CAN YOU DO!

Still, best viking episode since "Selfless".
True.

ETA: Reading "Osgood" as "creator of gods" and meshing it with "The Big Bang", there's something to be said for storytellers as being the source of gods.
I'm not sure exactly how the 'creator' part works, I *think* it's more 'a god who creates', but the other reading certainly fits Osgood better.

ETA2: And traditionally, the way you become a god is, step 1: Come back from the dead.
M-hm. I'm alll over that for the next ep.

The Davros-Odin parallel is brilliant, too - though Davros was never the wisest of creator gods, was he?
No, he is very tricksy, but not what I'd call *wise*...

ETA 2: Of course, Odin ended up being mostly displaced by his loud, boisterous, smash-everything-that-moves son...
Please, have you read Peter Madsen's Valhalla comics? I need to know someone else who sees the Nordic gods the same way I do.

So is the Doctor's purpose this season to seek the holy grail? (Aren't there mythological connections between the Fisher King and King Arthur?)
Hmmm. I'd say he has a grail already (see the Sisterhood of Karn), but I shall try to see what I can think of re. the Fisher King. (Presumably he will not go to Camelot as it is a silly place...)

And if so, is there any chance we'll get Alex Kingston in the role of identical twin sisters Zoot and Dingo? :)
Two of you. The mind races...

[purplefringe.livejournal.com]

I haven't watched The Woman Who Lived yet (was being *sociable* again, sigh) but before I do I just wanted to say:

a) Ahahahaha I LOVED the Pythonesque joy of this ep! Nearly fell out of my beanbag with glee when 'Odin' showed up like that. What a delight! :-D I loved the whole ep.

b) Good spot with Clara-as-Hanged-Man again! V nice.

c) I TOTALLY CALLED THE POMPEII THING I'M SO HAPPY!!! I shrieked. I KNEW that was the reason he had that face all of last season, and I knew (or hoped) it was going to come up this episode from the moment we saw him looking at his reflection in the water again. SO HAPPY!

Ok, off to watch the next ep now! (yes I know it's 12:30, shhhh)

[elisi]

I haven't watched The Woman Who Lived yet (was being *sociable* again, sigh)
Well, it's worth waiting for!

a) Ahahahaha I LOVED the Pythonesque joy of this ep! Nearly fell out of my beanbag with glee when 'Odin' showed up like that. What a delight! :-D I loved the whole ep.
It was 100% Doctor Who done right. :)

b) Good spot with Clara-as-Hanged-Man again! V nice.
I owe that one to Promethia.

c) I TOTALLY CALLED THE POMPEII THING I'M SO HAPPY!!! I shrieked. I KNEW that was the reason he had that face all of last season, and I knew (or hoped) it was going to come up this episode from the moment we saw him looking at his reflection in the water again. SO HAPPY!
\o/ I know others called it too. (Guess the Doctor never heard about Frobisher...)

Ok, off to watch the next ep now! (yes I know it's 12:30, shhhh)
I love everything. <3

Respectfully disagreeing about 12's mistake

[(Anonymous)]

I will agree with (and partly quote) Tv Tropes on this one. Of course what the Doctor did should not be taken lightly, and he acknowledges this, and that is good.
However, one must stress that in contrast with "The Waters of Mars", the stakes aren't as high, Ashildr's life or death is not a fixed point, the Doctor doesn’t know anything about her. If he had simply revived her with no reprecussions, nobody would or could call it hubris.

And as I think is evident through his epiphany, his words and his actions, it’s the difference between “Screw the Rules, I Make Them!”, and “Screw the Rules, I'm Doing What's Right” (TWOM- TGWD):
He isn’t trying to rewrite fate but fight fate. He doesn't want to be (he knows better than that now), he's not being a god who chooses who's important and who isn't, but fighting, willing to defy the gods who would not see the inherent preciousness of a single young life that might be saved.

“If there is any kind of Supreme Being, it is up to all of us to become his moral superior".




On a lighter and insaner note, I think I'm the only person with such a diverse amount of fandoms and knowledge of useless fiction trivia, that I can dub this episode as "The One With The -Most Probably Accidental- Conan reference":

"I'm the Doctor, and I save people! And if anyone happens to be listening, and you've got any kind of a problem with that, then to HELL with you!"

Look up "Prayer to Crom" and enjoy. COWER BEFORE MY EXTREME INTERTEXTUALITY, PUNY MORTALS.

Re: Respectfully disagreeing about 12's mistake

[elisi]

However, one must stress that in contrast with "The Waters of Mars", the stakes aren't as high, Ashildr's life or death is not a fixed point, the Doctor doesn’t know anything about her. If he had simply revived her with no reprecussions, nobody would or could call it hubris.
You are absolutely right, it's not a fixed point. And re. hubris, then originally it was the only thing that sprang to mind when I was watching the trailers, so I keep it in mind. A Ten-and-Rose-in-S2-vibe. As for the Doctor's actions here, then I shall wait and see what your opinion is on this matter after you've seen The Woman Who Lived. (Hopefully that post should be up sooner than this one!) Please don't post spoilers here, I'm trying to keep posts (and my thoughts) separate! ;)

He isn’t trying to rewrite fate but fight fate. He doesn't want to be (he knows better than that now), he's not being a god who chooses who's important and who isn't, but fighting, willing to defy the gods who would not see the inherent preciousness of a single young life that might be saved.
Ah, but is it 'right' to make someone immortal? He's not saving her, he's making her something other than human, someone almost like himself (because the Doctor isn't actually immortal.) Someone like Jack. Rose's actions in bringing Jack sprung from the purest of motives, as did the Doctor's here. But both Rose and Twelve broke not the rules of 'gods' but of nature. Created something unnatural. And Ashildr did not have a choice in the matter. It mirrors the Fixed Point issues, in that Fixed Points work more as rules of nature (water always wins), than as something philosophical. ETA: Got lost in my thoughts. Meant to say that yes, he's most definitely being a god. (Odin in particular.) Who else but a god can bring people back to life?

(I'll leave this here. The next episode does a wonderful job of delving into all the issues!)

By the way, re. your thoughts on Davros, then Moffat confirmed the more basic take on it:

'The Doctor thinks he abandoned the boy, because in his timeline, he hasn’t saved him yet. But from Davros’ point of view, he already knows that he owes his life to the Doctor. That’s why the old fascist keeps banging on about compassion being the Doctor’s weakness - he thinks the Doctor was wrong to save him, that it was the tactical error of a soppy old liberal.'
Steven Moffat on The Witch’s Familiar in Doctor Who Magazine #492 (x)

On a lighter and insaner note, I think I'm the only person with such a diverse amount of fandoms and knowledge of useless fiction trivia, that I can dub this episode as "The One With The -Most Probably Accidental- Conan reference":
Also, apparently, it references something called The Pirate Planet! And darn, I really need to watch Conan...

[juniperphoenix]

Terrific stuff, as usual. I always like the episodes more after reading your meta about them (even if I already liked them a lot to begin with, which has generally been the case so far in S9).

[elisi]

Thank you! :) And that's a wonderful compliment. (And exactly what I aim for, I think. To make people appreciate things more!)

[ever-neutral.livejournal.com]

Mind you, the very title 'The Girl Who Died' is all-over Clara.
MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY. And then the Doctor made Ashildr — Clara’s mirror — like himself. WHAT WHAT WHAT.

I think abossycontrolfreak is onto something with her idea that Clara is going to become some kind of mythical figure.
Yes fine… BUT NOT VIA DEATH, PRAY. (Still haunted by that Tumblr speculation, nothing to see here.)

but to revisit the Doctor's Victoriousness now? Oh, I'm THRILLED.
RIGHT??? Best meta moment of the series.

I want to say things (ESPECIALLY ABOUT THAT AMY PARALLEL ABOVE) but: SPOILERS. Suffice it to say I just watched the new ep and am running around headless. GET ON THAT.

[elisi]

MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY. And then the Doctor made Ashildr — Clara’s mirror — like himself. WHAT WHAT WHAT.
Well, Clara has always been a Doctor-mirror. So EVERYTHING IS MIRRORS YAY I LOVE EVERYONE! (The keywords for this icon are 'Everything is connected')

Yes fine… BUT NOT VIA DEATH, PRAY. (Still haunted by that Tumblr speculation, nothing to see here.)
Hyyyyyybrid. *cough*

RIGHT??? Best meta moment of the series.
It was truly brilliant.

I want to say things (ESPECIALLY ABOUT THAT AMY PARALLEL ABOVE) but: SPOILERS. Suffice it to say I just watched the new ep and am running around headless. GET ON THAT.
Well I've watched The Woman Who Lived. But... Would like to keep comments spoiler free. Message me? :) :) :)

[cynthia2015.livejournal.com]

So the sunglasses do have a significance.

I think there is more going on between the Doctor and Ashildr then we are lead to believe.

I'm still annoyed that Rose and Jack never had the chance to address his immortality.

[elisi]

So the sunglasses do have a significance.
Anything to do with vision is significant! They just did very little with them initially.

I think there is more going on between the Doctor and Ashildr then we are lead to believe.
Not sure what you mean by this, but will get back to it in my next review! :)

I'm still annoyed that Rose and Jack never had the chance to address his immortality.
Uh-huh. She never knew.