Every time I sit down to try to put it together it all just slips through my hands. Like sand or something.
I mean, there are things I can see - like the great-great-etc-granddaughter scattered across time, which gives me hope that the solution will indeed be all about people claiming each other as family, and there's music and all the stuff with the TARDIS and echoes of TWoRS and TBB (pocket universes I love thee), and there's songs/stories and... yeah, sand through my fingers. I can't get hold of anything solid.
And there's puppets (Clara: 'Is she real? As in, actually real?') and fallen angels ('Hila' = hebrew for 'halo') and mirrors mirrors everywhere and I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT ALL MEANS :-(
No, it's not at all how others see the show - it's much worse! We KNOW there is so much in there to see, we just can't pick it apart and put it together properly at the moment. It's overwhelming.... Most other people don't see anything at all beyond plot/characters/pretty effects/classic Who references/etc, and it's much more relaxing. (I remember watching the show like that, I remember how simple and enjoyable it was! Watching DW now is NOT A RELAXING EXPERIENCE, even when the meta is going well! And right now it's *especially* crazy. such_heights keeps having to make soothing noises at me.)
Maybe you should focus on writing up your Tardis theory, and see if that triggers any more ideas?
I remember watching the show like that, I remember how simple and enjoyable it was! Oh same here. Pleasant weekly entertainment, and then it became *interesting* weekly entertainment that required thinking and obsessions (the S3 finale onwards) and then came S5 and OMG METAPHORS and IMAGES and I could READ THE SHOW... And now it's all turned to gibberish. *stabs*
Watching DW now is NOT A RELAXING EXPERIENCE, even when the meta is going well! And right now it's *especially* crazy. such_heights keeps having to make soothing noises at me. Poor Promethia has to make them all the way from America...
Maybe you should focus on writing up your Tardis theory, and see if that triggers any more ideas? I suppose. But it's like... it fits, but that doesn't mean it's right? Lots of things add up to 4, not just 2 + 2. *deep breath* OK, will try to get that done. At least it won't hang over me.
Pleasant weekly entertainment, and then it became *interesting* weekly entertainment that required thinking and obsessions (the S3 finale onwards) and then came S5 and OMG METAPHORS and IMAGES and I could READ THE SHOW
Yep! Pretty much. I became interested in a certain type of meta pretty early on - by the end of S2 I would spend a *lot* of time thinking about parallels within episodes, and character motivation and the like. I have Word docs that are PAGES long full of interesting snippets of this kind of meta that I found online, when I was just discovering LJ and vids and things, and pages that I wrote myself...but whilst that was (and still is) interesting it's not an obsessive THING in my head as I'm watching, like this kind of symbolic/literary/religious/metaphorical analysis has become.
But it's like... it fits, but that doesn't mean it's right? Lots of things add up to 4, not just 2 + 2.
It doesn't have to be right, it's still fascinating! Just like your theory way back when about Oswin being the Doctor's granddaughter is (probably?) not going to turn out to be true, due to all the flirting, but that doesn't mean it's not an AMAZING and detailed piece of analysis. I would really like to see all the Clara/Tardis links spelled out - even if it's not the endgame, doesn't mean they're not there.
.but whilst that was (and still is) interesting it's not an obsessive THING in my head as I'm watching, like this kind of symbolic/literary/religious/metaphorical analysis has become. It's funny, because whilst it definitely hit my obsessive buttons by the end of S3, it was S5 that did that incredible THING that I still can't define. Although mostly it's the fact that I can trust Moffat - if you can read the underlying stuff, you can see where it's going. Which is why I'm so frustrated right now...
It doesn't have to be right, it's still fascinating! Just like your theory way back when about Oswin being the Doctor's granddaughter is (probably?) not going to turn out to be true, due to all the flirting, but that doesn't mean it's not an AMAZING and detailed piece of analysis. Ah, but then this episode had this GIGANTIC Clara metaphor - who was a [great-great-great]granddaughter. Which is another reason I'm frustrated. Because I can't see HOW. Especially not how it'd fit with everything else. (But it's still the thing that fits the best, if we ignore the flirting.)
I would really like to see all the Clara/Tardis links spelled out - even if it's not the endgame, doesn't mean they're not there. I'll try... :)
ETA: Also, if in doubt - River. Just because. ♥ (Made this icon to cheer myself up.)
it was S5 that did that incredible THING that I still can't define
Yep, same here. It was then I discovered the amazing meta essays by goldenmoonrose, which made me start to see all the amazing Moffat-meta. I can't even remember how I found them now (probably via who_daily) but they were the turning point.
this episode had this GIGANTIC Clara metaphor - who was a [great-great-great]granddaughter.
Mmmmmm, true. But she could also be a River metaphor (as you say - if in doubt - River!) but I don't see how that works either...
Yep, same here. It was then I discovered the amazing meta essays by goldenmoonrose And I found promethia and we've not stopped talking since... (remember goldenmoonrose too!)
Mmmmmm, true. But she could also be a River metaphor (as you say - if in doubt - River!) but I don't see how that works either... Definitely Clara, with echoes of River (impossible astronaut in white), but mostly Clara.
An impossible time-travelling astronaut in white, trapped in a forest in a separate universe, where time is collapsing and everything is backwards (Fear turns out to be Love, three minutes is an Eternity) and obscured by mist (/shadows), a woman who sends a plea for Help across time and space until it reaches the Doctor, psychically (well, empathically, but whatever), a cry for help that reaches across time and space through the power of Love and Family ('Cry for help - with a kiss?") - how can we not think of River?
I think one of the most interesting things about this season for me is how over-lapping the symbols have all become? I mean, Amy and River did a decent bit of symbol-sharing between themselves, but this season it's like every episode can be read multiple different ways. There's a huge amount of River/Clara overlap, and a decent amount of River/Clara/Amy overlap. And this is in addition to the copious amounts of Doctor/Clara mirroring and the always-present Doctor/River flip-flop.
Who was the woman frozen in the pond? Who does the leaf belong to? Who holds all the songs and all the stories? Who was lost? Who is the trapped time traveler, who is the psychic, and who is the professor? Who is jumping and who is catching and who is falling? Who is a ghost? Who is in heaven and who is in hell? Who killed all the Daleks? And (I suspect relevant) who made the whole universe blow up?
At a guess, the answer is something like "all of the above."
Of course everything is River, but as this season is centered around Clara, River is a secondary mirror? flowsoffire has a great post here about River mirrors, but that all needs reflecting back onto Clara to see what it means now...
Mmm, I saw that post, it's a bit wonderful! But I think Promethia's comment here sums it up - ALL OF THE ABOVE. We are definitely in a hall of mirrors, and I keep walking into things and can't see straight any more.
Exactly. xD (Although I really kind of adore how this show could/would take something that sounds so incredibly cheesy like 'it ends in hugs and sparkles', and make it into something heartwarming.) ....I really need to rewatch 'The Doctor Dances' again.
I'm just not usde to flying blind when it comes to Moffat. I have all these fragments, but when I look at them they turn into more fragments, nothing solid...
What if *everybody* just stopped blaming Joss Whedon for things because he wasn't at fault? Where would we be then, hmmmmm? No, I will stick with what works!
What if *everybody* just stopped blaming Joss Whedon for things because he wasn't at fault? Where would we be then, hmmmmm? No, I will stick with what works! OK, I am giggling now. Still - the ground just keeps falling away beneath me with no end in sight. Ever since TEH I've had a foothold. And now I don't. *shakes show*
Other than say the foothold hasn't changed: stop convincing yourself it's not there. Basically, I can't see the forest for the trees. Which is quite funny, considering.
I laughed at the reaction gif. It's perfect. I think Moffat and his writers enjoy a little too much our confusion; you parallels are great though. Let us not be driven mad by this confusion, in the end it's excellent for the writing and even better for the meta. I'm sure what you will produce will be great. :)
I laughed at the reaction gif. It's perfect. I have me_llamo_nic to thank. :)
I think Moffat and his writers enjoy a little too much our confusion; you parallels are great though. I usually have a foothold. But right now I'm lost...
Let us not be driven mad by this confusion, in the end it's excellent for the writing and even better for the meta. I'm sure what you will produce will be great. :) Your faith is very touching. And I'm sure it'll all end well and I will be hitting myself over the head because of my stupidity.
~Nods~ so dense and soo many fragments. I try to pull them together every week, and they are stitching into a type of sense, but - the mirrorball - multifacted show is multifacted.
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I mean, there are things I can see - like the great-great-etc-granddaughter scattered across time, which gives me hope that the solution will indeed be all about people claiming each other as family, and there's music and all the stuff with the TARDIS and echoes of TWoRS and TBB (pocket universes I love thee), and there's songs/stories and... yeah, sand through my fingers. I can't get hold of anything solid.
Except, I suppose, that Clara is a scared girl.
What is she running from?
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It's like being blind. Is this how others usually see the show? IT'S NO FUN! :(
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Maybe you should focus on writing up your Tardis theory, and see if that triggers any more ideas?
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Oh same here. Pleasant weekly entertainment, and then it became *interesting* weekly entertainment that required thinking and obsessions (the S3 finale onwards) and then came S5 and OMG METAPHORS and IMAGES and I could READ THE SHOW... And now it's all turned to gibberish. *stabs*
Watching DW now is NOT A RELAXING EXPERIENCE, even when the meta is going well! And right now it's *especially* crazy. such_heights keeps having to make soothing noises at me.
Poor Promethia has to make them all the way from America...
Maybe you should focus on writing up your Tardis theory, and see if that triggers any more ideas?
I suppose. But it's like... it fits, but that doesn't mean it's right? Lots of things add up to 4, not just 2 + 2. *deep breath* OK, will try to get that done. At least it won't hang over me.
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Yep! Pretty much. I became interested in a certain type of meta pretty early on - by the end of S2 I would spend a *lot* of time thinking about parallels within episodes, and character motivation and the like. I have Word docs that are PAGES long full of interesting snippets of this kind of meta that I found online, when I was just discovering LJ and vids and things, and pages that I wrote myself...but whilst that was (and still is) interesting it's not an obsessive THING in my head as I'm watching, like this kind of symbolic/literary/religious/metaphorical analysis has become.
But it's like... it fits, but that doesn't mean it's right? Lots of things add up to 4, not just 2 + 2.
It doesn't have to be right, it's still fascinating! Just like your theory way back when about Oswin being the Doctor's granddaughter is (probably?) not going to turn out to be true, due to all the flirting, but that doesn't mean it's not an AMAZING and detailed piece of analysis. I would really like to see all the Clara/Tardis links spelled out - even if it's not the endgame, doesn't mean they're not there.
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It's funny, because whilst it definitely hit my obsessive buttons by the end of S3, it was S5 that did that incredible THING that I still can't define. Although mostly it's the fact that I can trust Moffat - if you can read the underlying stuff, you can see where it's going. Which is why I'm so frustrated right now...
It doesn't have to be right, it's still fascinating! Just like your theory way back when about Oswin being the Doctor's granddaughter is (probably?) not going to turn out to be true, due to all the flirting, but that doesn't mean it's not an AMAZING and detailed piece of analysis.
Ah, but then this episode had this GIGANTIC Clara metaphor - who was a [great-great-great]granddaughter. Which is another reason I'm frustrated. Because I can't see HOW. Especially not how it'd fit with everything else. (But it's still the thing that fits the best, if we ignore the flirting.)
I would really like to see all the Clara/Tardis links spelled out - even if it's not the endgame, doesn't mean they're not there.
I'll try... :)
ETA: Also, if in doubt - River. Just because. ♥ (Made this icon to cheer myself up.)
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Yep, same here. It was then I discovered the amazing meta essays by goldenmoonrose, which made me start to see all the amazing Moffat-meta. I can't even remember how I found them now (probably via who_daily) but they were the turning point.
this episode had this GIGANTIC Clara metaphor - who was a [great-great-great]granddaughter.
Mmmmmm, true. But she could also be a River metaphor (as you say - if in doubt - River!) but I don't see how that works either...
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And I found promethia and we've not stopped talking since... (remember goldenmoonrose too!)
Mmmmmm, true. But she could also be a River metaphor (as you say - if in doubt - River!) but I don't see how that works either...
Definitely Clara, with echoes of River (impossible astronaut in white), but mostly Clara.
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Who was the woman frozen in the pond? Who does the leaf belong to? Who holds all the songs and all the stories? Who was lost? Who is the trapped time traveler, who is the psychic, and who is the professor? Who is jumping and who is catching and who is falling? Who is a ghost? Who is in heaven and who is in hell? Who killed all the Daleks? And (I suspect relevant) who made the whole universe blow up?
At a guess, the answer is something like "all of the above."
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Still...this is awesome-meta-that-is-not-meta...
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I just want something solid, not fog and mist...
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Exactly. xD (Although I really kind of adore how this show could/would take something that sounds so incredibly cheesy like 'it ends in hugs and sparkles', and make it into something heartwarming.) ....I really need to rewatch 'The Doctor Dances' again.
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And yet, you will not want to choke on your own bile and die. You will weep copious tears and you will love it.
Magic!
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Just checking how much I needed to be blaming Joss Whedon . . .
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I'm just not usde to flying blind when it comes to Moffat. I have all these fragments, but when I look at them they turn into more fragments, nothing solid...
Ooooo, pretty.
*frets and pets your brain*
Re: Ooooo, pretty.
OK, I am giggling now. Still - the ground just keeps falling away beneath me with no end in sight. Ever since TEH I've had a foothold. And now I don't. *shakes show*
Re: Ooooo, pretty.
What can I do?
Other than say the foothold hasn't changed: stop convincing yourself it's not there.
Well . . . not a foothold so much as a . . . web . . . hold . . . thing-y. BUT IT'S STILL THERE!
Re: Ooooo, pretty.
Basically, I can't see the forest for the trees. Which is quite funny, considering.
Re: Ooooo, pretty.
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I think Moffat and his writers enjoy a little too much our confusion; you parallels are great though.
Let us not be driven mad by this confusion, in the end it's excellent for the writing and even better for the meta. I'm sure what you will produce will be great. :)
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I have
I think Moffat and his writers enjoy a little too much our confusion; you parallels are great though.
I usually have a foothold. But right now I'm lost...
Let us not be driven mad by this confusion, in the end it's excellent for the writing and even better for the meta. I'm sure what you will produce will be great. :)
Your faith is very touching. And I'm sure it'll all end well and I will be hitting myself over the head because of my stupidity.
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