LOL. It's always fun reading people's analyses of this show and realizing how much I work out in my fanfic. I also love seeing how the ideas of others line up with my own. It's like a shared brain. : ) ALLLLLLL my fic is thinly disguised meta. But sometimes meta-meta works better. You don't have to worry about plot so much when you write an essay. *g* (And I know exactly what you mean. I share my brain with several people, most notably promethia_tenk.
There were difficult experiences he had in the old series, but being forced to commit genocide against his own species is on a completely different level. He is indeed "The hollow man." I think this is one reason the new show stands so well on its own. They were essentially starting over again. Which is why Ten comes across as younger than his previous selves in many ways - he is coming to terms with experiences that are completely new.
I'm amazed that there's this much darkness and complexity in what's ostensibly a family-friendly show. I love that the Brits evidently believe that kids are capable of processing so much moral complexity and ambiguity. It's a fine line, but if it doesn't make the children hide behind the sofa, it's doing it wrong. Today's grandparents grew up being terrified of the Daleks... Which isn't quite what you were saying, but everyone readily accepts that the show needs to be dark/scary and those things overlap. (Moffat of course is fond of saying that it's a proper fairy tale, and it's how we teach our children that thw world is dangerous. Love Moffat.)
One interesting thing about season six is that, at the end, Eleven barely even registers Madame Kovarian's presence in the pyramid. You know, that's something I'd never really thought of (since I, uh, might be focussed on River/Doctor...), but it's an excellent point - although I was always pleased that Amy was the one to tackle her. That felt very right.
. Part of me thinks Ten would have stood there and angrily lectured her until she died of boredom in the chair. : ) Oh god. I can picture it quite clearly now. (It is WRONG to kidnap poor innocent babies.../Oh someone kill me already.)
Internalized darkness... hmm. I love the scene in Vampires of Venice when Eleven tells Rosanna that he'll tear down the House of Calviari stone by stone. And when her henchman comes, he says, "Take your hands off me, Carlo," without even raising his voice. Mmmmmm. Or how he goes 'Oh the Dreamlord was me wasn't that obvious?' He is aware of that darkness, and doesn't try to pretend it isn't there. (You might be interested in another of my essays The Tragedy and Death of the Lonely God and the Rise of the Trickster. Or: How Moffat re-booted DW.)
I think part of the reason he loves Amy and Rory so much is they're like children to him, and they're so full of innate goodness. They're not just good company, they bring light to the darkness. Without people like them, the darkness he exhibits in this scene would eventually overwhelm him. Actually I love the fact that he retires when he loses them. He doesn't go mad or crazy or try to tear the universe apart. No sign of the Timelord Victorious. He just gives up. He can't do it without them, she he won't even try.
ALLLLLLL my fic is thinly disguised meta. But sometimes meta-meta works better. You don't have to worry about plot so much when you write an essay. *g* (And I know exactly what you mean. I share my brain with several people, most notably promethia_tenk.
Ooh, good person to share a brain with! I love her DW commentary. I often have loads of thoughts in my head about the show, but rarely get them out in a proper essay--I somehow find it easier to just write a story.
It's a fine line, but if it doesn't make the children hide behind the sofa, it's doing it wrong. Today's grandparents grew up being terrified of the Daleks... Which isn't quite what you were saying, but everyone readily accepts that the show needs to be dark/scary and those things overlap. (Moffat of course is fond of saying that it's a proper fairy tale, and it's how we teach our children that thw world is dangerous. Love Moffat.)
Right. And there's a difference between scary and gory. It's amazing how terrifying DW can be with such a small amount of gore/ overt violence. The Weeping Angels are a perfect example. The way they creep up on you is just skin-crawling. And they zap you back into a past you can never get out of. By the time you reach your own time again, you're either dead from old age or very close to it. (Not sure what that teaches children, LOL, except to be constantly looking behind you). : )
One interesting thing about season six is that, at the end, Eleven barely even registers Madame Kovarian's presence in the pyramid. You know, that's something I'd never really thought of (since I, uh, might be focussed on River/Doctor...), but it's an excellent point - although I was always pleased that Amy was the one to tackle her. That felt very right.
LOL, I love Eleven-River in that scene, too. His lack of attention to Kovarian wasn't something I really paid attention to at the time. It hit me later. But it serves two purposes if you think about it. One, she's kind of a diva, so one of the things she'd probably find intolerable is people not paying attention to her. Two, the Doctor is actually in the Tessalecta in this scene, so he probably wouldn't want to get too close to Kovarian, lest she figure it out. The success of his whole scheme hinges on everyone believing he's actually dead.
WRT to Amy, the thing that made me laugh the hardest is that as she and Rory are walking away, and she's proposing marriage to him, you can still hear Kovarian screaming in the background.
Part of me thinks Ten would have stood there and angrily lectured her until she died of boredom in the chair. : ) Oh god. I can picture it quite clearly now. (It is WRONG to kidnap poor innocent babies.../Oh someone kill me already.)
LOL! Yes, Ten would not be able to resist going all Ranty McRantcakes on her, complete with flying spittle, flailing arms, and general over-the-top histrionics.
'Oh the Dreamlord was me wasn't that obvious?' He is aware of that darkness, and doesn't try to pretend it isn't there. (You might be interested in another of my essays The Tragedy and Death of the Lonely God and the Rise of the Trickster. Or: How Moffat re-booted DW.)
I can see I'm going to be doing a lot of reading. : )
Actually I love the fact that he retires when he loses them. He doesn't go mad or crazy or try to tear the universe apart. No sign of the Timelord Victorious. He just gives up. He can't do it without them, she he won't even try.
Well, they're not just companions. They're family. Even though this is (kind of frustratingly) never stated outright, he HAD to feel closer to the Ponds than he did to a lot of his other companions. He married their daughter! Plus, he knew Amy when she was a little kid, and I think he had that sense of knowing her for so much of her life. He also must have been aware of having to a certain extent shaped her character, and that's probably part of why he felt very protective of her and responsible for her well-being. It's such an interesting dynamic.
Ooh, good person to share a brain with! I love her DW commentary. HALF OF IT IS MINE! *cackles* (Now and again I wonder what I did before I found her. 'Tis a strange and lonely place.)
I often have loads of thoughts in my head about the show, but rarely get them out in a proper essay--I somehow find it easier to just write a story. It depends on the subject... There are some of my fics which are very much my way of tackling a subject, and if anyone asks, I'll point them to the fic. But sometimes only meta will do...
Right. And there's a difference between scary and gory. It's amazing how terrifying DW can be with such a small amount of gore/ overt violence. Exactly.
(Not sure what that teaches children, LOL, except to be constantly looking behind you). : ) Well the idea comes from a children's game (called Grandmother's steps) where people can move as long as they're not being watched, so every time you turn, everyone has moved closer... Moffat just took that further. *g*
LOL, I love Eleven-River in that scene, too. His lack of attention to Kovarian wasn't something I really paid attention to at the time. It hit me later. Happens to me a lot too...
But it serves two purposes if you think about it. One, she's kind of a diva, so one of the things she'd probably find intolerable is people not paying attention to her. Two, the Doctor is actually in the Tessalecta in this scene, so he probably wouldn't want to get too close to Kovarian, lest she figure it out. The success of his whole scheme hinges on everyone believing he's actually dead. Mmmmm, very true. :)
WRT to Amy, the thing that made me laugh the hardest is that as she and Rory are walking away, and she's proposing marriage to him, you can still hear Kovarian screaming in the background. (River didn't get it all from you, Sweetie!) Badass!Amy is the best.
LOL! Yes, Ten would not be able to resist going all Ranty McRantcakes on her, complete with flying spittle, flailing arms, and general over-the-top histrionics. I... am going to have to send you something. Later. You'll appreciate it!
I can see I'm going to be doing a lot of reading. : ) Only if you feel like it! But all my arguments are looooong, so rather than try to summarise stuff I just link people. It's a thing. If you're curious, have a look. But be warned: I ramble to the nth degree.
Well, they're not just companions. They're family. Even though this is (kind of frustratingly) never stated outright, he HAD to feel closer to the Ponds than he did to a lot of his other companions. Oh absolutely. Plus, they were with him for 300 years (his time). He had Rose for 2.
Plus, he knew Amy when she was a little kid, and I think he had that sense of knowing her for so much of her life. He also must have been aware of having to a certain extent shaped her character, and that's probably part of why he felt very protective of her and responsible for her well-being. It's such an interesting dynamic. Well they shaped each other. (I *love* that this was made canon in The Power of Three.) The 'grew up' together, and as you say, that's one reason their dynamic was so fascinating.
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ALLLLLLL my fic is thinly disguised meta. But sometimes meta-meta works better. You don't have to worry about plot so much when you write an essay. *g* (And I know exactly what you mean. I share my brain with several people, most notably
There were difficult experiences he had in the old series, but being forced to commit genocide against his own species is on a completely different level. He is indeed "The hollow man."
I think this is one reason the new show stands so well on its own. They were essentially starting over again. Which is why Ten comes across as younger than his previous selves in many ways - he is coming to terms with experiences that are completely new.
I'm amazed that there's this much darkness and complexity in what's ostensibly a family-friendly show. I love that the Brits evidently believe that kids are capable of processing so much moral complexity and ambiguity.
It's a fine line, but if it doesn't make the children hide behind the sofa, it's doing it wrong. Today's grandparents grew up being terrified of the Daleks... Which isn't quite what you were saying, but everyone readily accepts that the show needs to be dark/scary and those things overlap. (Moffat of course is fond of saying that it's a proper fairy tale, and it's how we teach our children that thw world is dangerous. Love Moffat.)
One interesting thing about season six is that, at the end, Eleven barely even registers Madame Kovarian's presence in the pyramid.
You know, that's something I'd never really thought of (since I, uh, might be focussed on River/Doctor...), but it's an excellent point - although I was always pleased that Amy was the one to tackle her. That felt very right.
. Part of me thinks Ten would have stood there and angrily lectured her until she died of boredom in the chair. : )
Oh god. I can picture it quite clearly now. (It is WRONG to kidnap poor innocent babies.../Oh someone kill me already.)
Internalized darkness... hmm. I love the scene in Vampires of Venice when Eleven tells Rosanna that he'll tear down the House of Calviari stone by stone. And when her henchman comes, he says, "Take your hands off me, Carlo," without even raising his voice.
Mmmmmm. Or how he goes 'Oh the Dreamlord was me wasn't that obvious?' He is aware of that darkness, and doesn't try to pretend it isn't there. (You might be interested in another of my essays The Tragedy and Death of the Lonely God and the Rise of the Trickster. Or: How Moffat re-booted DW.)
I think part of the reason he loves Amy and Rory so much is they're like children to him, and they're so full of innate goodness. They're not just good company, they bring light to the darkness. Without people like them, the darkness he exhibits in this scene would eventually overwhelm him.
Actually I love the fact that he retires when he loses them. He doesn't go mad or crazy or try to tear the universe apart. No sign of the Timelord Victorious. He just gives up. He can't do it without them, she he won't even try.
[cut for length]
no subject
Ooh, good person to share a brain with! I love her DW commentary. I often have loads of thoughts in my head about the show, but rarely get them out in a proper essay--I somehow find it easier to just write a story.
It's a fine line, but if it doesn't make the children hide behind the sofa, it's doing it wrong. Today's grandparents grew up being terrified of the Daleks... Which isn't quite what you were saying, but everyone readily accepts that the show needs to be dark/scary and those things overlap. (Moffat of course is fond of saying that it's a proper fairy tale, and it's how we teach our children that thw world is dangerous. Love Moffat.)
Right. And there's a difference between scary and gory. It's amazing how terrifying DW can be with such a small amount of gore/ overt violence. The Weeping Angels are a perfect example. The way they creep up on you is just skin-crawling. And they zap you back into a past you can never get out of. By the time you reach your own time again, you're either dead from old age or very close to it. (Not sure what that teaches children, LOL, except to be constantly looking behind you). : )
One interesting thing about season six is that, at the end, Eleven barely even registers Madame Kovarian's presence in the pyramid.
You know, that's something I'd never really thought of (since I, uh, might be focussed on River/Doctor...), but it's an excellent point - although I was always pleased that Amy was the one to tackle her. That felt very right.
LOL, I love Eleven-River in that scene, too. His lack of attention to Kovarian wasn't something I really paid attention to at the time. It hit me later. But it serves two purposes if you think about it. One, she's kind of a diva, so one of the things she'd probably find intolerable is people not paying attention to her. Two, the Doctor is actually in the Tessalecta in this scene, so he probably wouldn't want to get too close to Kovarian, lest she figure it out. The success of his whole scheme hinges on everyone believing he's actually dead.
WRT to Amy, the thing that made me laugh the hardest is that as she and Rory are walking away, and she's proposing marriage to him, you can still hear Kovarian screaming in the background.
Part of me thinks Ten would have stood there and angrily lectured her until she died of boredom in the chair. : )
Oh god. I can picture it quite clearly now. (It is WRONG to kidnap poor innocent babies.../Oh someone kill me already.)
LOL! Yes, Ten would not be able to resist going all Ranty McRantcakes on her, complete with flying spittle, flailing arms, and general over-the-top histrionics.
'Oh the Dreamlord was me wasn't that obvious?' He is aware of that darkness, and doesn't try to pretend it isn't there. (You might be interested in another of my essays The Tragedy and Death of the Lonely God and the Rise of the Trickster. Or: How Moffat re-booted DW.)
I can see I'm going to be doing a lot of reading. : )
Actually I love the fact that he retires when he loses them. He doesn't go mad or crazy or try to tear the universe apart. No sign of the Timelord Victorious. He just gives up. He can't do it without them, she he won't even try.
Well, they're not just companions. They're family. Even though this is (kind of frustratingly) never stated outright, he HAD to feel closer to the Ponds than he did to a lot of his other companions. He married their daughter! Plus, he knew Amy when she was a little kid, and I think he had that sense of knowing her for so much of her life. He also must have been aware of having to a certain extent shaped her character, and that's probably part of why he felt very protective of her and responsible for her well-being. It's such an interesting dynamic.
no subject
HALF OF IT IS MINE! *cackles* (Now and again I wonder what I did before I found her. 'Tis a strange and lonely place.)
I often have loads of thoughts in my head about the show, but rarely get them out in a proper essay--I somehow find it easier to just write a story.
It depends on the subject... There are some of my fics which are very much my way of tackling a subject, and if anyone asks, I'll point them to the fic. But sometimes only meta will do...
Right. And there's a difference between scary and gory. It's amazing how terrifying DW can be with such a small amount of gore/ overt violence.
Exactly.
(Not sure what that teaches children, LOL, except to be constantly looking behind you). : )
Well the idea comes from a children's game (called Grandmother's steps) where people can move as long as they're not being watched, so every time you turn, everyone has moved closer... Moffat just took that further. *g*
LOL, I love Eleven-River in that scene, too. His lack of attention to Kovarian wasn't something I really paid attention to at the time. It hit me later.
Happens to me a lot too...
But it serves two purposes if you think about it. One, she's kind of a diva, so one of the things she'd probably find intolerable is people not paying attention to her. Two, the Doctor is actually in the Tessalecta in this scene, so he probably wouldn't want to get too close to Kovarian, lest she figure it out. The success of his whole scheme hinges on everyone believing he's actually dead.
Mmmmm, very true. :)
WRT to Amy, the thing that made me laugh the hardest is that as she and Rory are walking away, and she's proposing marriage to him, you can still hear Kovarian screaming in the background.
(River didn't get it all from you, Sweetie!) Badass!Amy is the best.
LOL! Yes, Ten would not be able to resist going all Ranty McRantcakes on her, complete with flying spittle, flailing arms, and general over-the-top histrionics.
I... am going to have to send you something. Later. You'll appreciate it!
I can see I'm going to be doing a lot of reading. : )
Only if you feel like it! But all my arguments are looooong, so rather than try to summarise stuff I just link people. It's a thing. If you're curious, have a look. But be warned: I ramble to the nth degree.
Well, they're not just companions. They're family. Even though this is (kind of frustratingly) never stated outright, he HAD to feel closer to the Ponds than he did to a lot of his other companions.
Oh absolutely. Plus, they were with him for 300 years (his time). He had Rose for 2.
Plus, he knew Amy when she was a little kid, and I think he had that sense of knowing her for so much of her life. He also must have been aware of having to a certain extent shaped her character, and that's probably part of why he felt very protective of her and responsible for her well-being. It's such an interesting dynamic.
Well they shaped each other. (I *love* that this was made canon in The Power of Three.) The 'grew up' together, and as you say, that's one reason their dynamic was so fascinating.