The Time Lord Victorious, from WoM onwards.

[elisi]

So, I do NOT have time to write this, but it suddenly attacked me and demanded to be written down.

First of all, however, re-posting something I wrote in a comment in a previous post. It's essentially 'Rusty Who in 25 words' I guess. *coughs discreetly*

EVERYONE IS A MONSTER, EVEN THE DOCTOR. EXCEPT HE IS WONDERFUL, BECAUSE HE'S THE HERO. [error error does not compute and Bowie Base One explodes]

Basically it's about how Rusty's main issue (the thing he ALWAYS writes about) is [humanity's] monstrousness, and obviously this spilled into DW in increasing amounts.

So, thoughts about Victoriousness under the cut. The main complaint I've heard re. WoM is that it never went anywhere - Ten went all 'The Laws of Time Are MINE!' but then 'snapped out of it'. My question is - did he?

Here's the thing: Adelaide kills herself, and yes, it stops Ten in his tracks. 'I've gone too far!' he says, and then sees Ood Sigma there to summon him for (he presumes) his death. (Considering that he's an atheist, he's surprisingly quick to jump to the conclusion that *someone* wants to punish him for his behaviour. I have... issues with WoM/EoT on this score, as the Watsonian and Doylist blends far too much.) ANYWAY. People see this as him coming back down to Earth - but note it's only momentary. He goes into the TARDIS, but he does not go where the Ood are summoning him. Quite the opposite - the Time Lord Victorious says "No!" and goes off to have adventures - as we see at the start of EoT. And just how wrong does he come across then? The forced cheerfulness grates, because it's unnatural. He's still not himself, he's not chosen to let go of that Victoriousness. It's not shouty anymore, just ticking away underneath everything else.

He then gets sidetracked by what the Ood tell him, and of course the idea that the Master is returning makes him run as fast as he can... Because that crack which was always there in his his personality broke open, and it doesn't close. Saving the people on Mars became all about him. Ditto, the Master. He runs and he searches and he initially dismisses Wilf (after crying on his shoulder a little), and finally finds what he wants: The Master. I was always torn over that scene in the Vinvocci spaceship where he refuses Wilf's gun, because he would rather keep the Master than save the Earth - but it makes perfect sense if he's still Victorious. As does his standoff against Rassilon and all that, because it's perfectly logical that *he* should hold the world's fate in his hands... (After all, he won the war. The Laws of Time are his. No wonder he guesses what the Master planned - to turn all the Time Lords into copies of himself - because it's exactly the kind of mindset he's nurturing: It's all about him. He won the war the first time round, he'll win it this time too.)

This also brings into new focus his rant against Wilf: The Time Lord Victorious is indeed being handed the death sentence he initially suspected - and he is just as unwilling to accept it as he was then. But - he needs to die, as is plain to anyone with eyes: He's a clear and present danger. (I'll get back to this further down.) But he doesn't accept that. At all. Oh he goes into that booth in order to save Wilf, but I don't think he ever accepts that he needs to die. Indeed he then goes onto visit EVERYONE, and it's not just a goodbye, it's an absolute refusal to acquiesce to his death sentence. Even that last line ("I don't want to go") is... *light bulb moment* Ooooooh it's like Donna. You could almost say that the Time Lord Victorious took over the Doctor, and WILL NOT DIE, and so has to be exorcised. This is why he talks about regeneration as 'death', why Donna's loss of memory is referred to as a 'death' also - they both become something they shouldn't be, something *wrong*. (Re. Donna, then see this excellent essay: Donna Noble's Midnight: Parallels, Foreshadowing, and "Journey's End". But in a nutshell - this is Donna talking just before she begins to falter: "Brilliant! Fantastic! Molto bene! Great bit of universe packed into my brain." <-That? Is not Donna. Remember the nameless monster in Midnight that stole the Doctor's voice? Here, it is Donna speaking with the Doctor's voice, not her own. Similarly, Ten in those last episodes is... not himself. And the thing wearing his face needs to die. Notice that both Donna and the Doctor are themselves afterwards, however they need to 'die' in order to get rid of the thing that's taken over over. Because there is always a price. ETA: It was... like a cancer, and needed drastic surgery. That's a better way of looking at it than 'taken over by alien force'.)

Of course this is only looking at one aspect, one layer, of the overall story, and I'm deliberately ignoring all the other stuff. But I think it's a useful thing to keep in mind - it certainly makes sense of a lot of Ten's behaviour in those last two episodes. My main problem is that I can see the writer's hand far too clearly - Rusty created a monster, but couldn't control him and had to kill him off rather brutally. There wasn't time to examine the damage in any detail, nor to redeem the monster:

The Doctor: He destroyed the Daleks. He committed genocide. He's too dangerous to be left on his own.
TenToo (confused and a little angry): You made me!
The Doctor: Exactly, you were born in battle - full of blood and anger and revenge. (to Rose) Remind you of someone?
~
Wilf: But I’ve heard you talk about your people like they’re wonderful!
The Doctor: That’s how I choose to remember them! The Time Lords of old. But then they went to war! And endless war! And it changed them. Right to the core. You’ve seen my enemies, Wilf. The Time Lords are more dangerous than any of them!

The Time Lords went bad, and had to die. The Doctor went bad and had to die.

(And then Moffat took over the reigns and took everything apart, examined it in great detail, fixed the broken parts, put it back together and now it all works again and there is no bad.)

Comments

[solitary-summer.livejournal.com]

I can't really comment coherently because I'm still thinking my way through all this myself, but...

because he would rather keep the Master than save the Earth

I think at this point it's rather that he's simply afraid of becoming the next Master himself. ('That's how the Master started') He knows he already fucked up badly once, and he's just doesn't trust himself any longer. I don't think of the Time Lord Victorious as something alien that had to be exorcised but as an experience that Ten couldn't unlearn, however much he might have wanted to, that had become part of him.

Ten's last line... I think part of it is that RTD doesn't like for his characters to go in despair, to give them the comparatively easy way out of a glorified suicide, or risk having their deaths misunderstood as that. If you look at Jack in MD -- he was only allowed to make the decision to die after he'd realised he didn't want to after all, and after getting a good look at his life and appreciating it. And even then it was Gwen who made the decision in the end, not Jack himself.

Rusty created a monster, but couldn't control him and had to kill him off rather brutally. There wasn't time to examine the damage in any detail, nor to redeem the monster

I don't think he ever intended or wanted to, because he'd written that story before and it ended the same way, with almost the same words. I think that despite his fanboyishness he saw something in the Time Lords, their power, their way of cheating death, their non-humanness, that made him connect them and his Doctor to The Second Coming and explore the themes addressed there further. Ten had to die because he'd become too much of a god.

[elisi]

I can't really comment coherently because I'm still thinking my way through all this myself, but...
You and me both! (I was so pleased when I saw you'd commented, because I know this is stuff you're thinking about too.)

I think at this point it's rather that he's simply afraid of becoming the next Master himself. ('That's how the Master started') He knows he already fucked up badly once, and he's just doesn't trust himself any longer.
Yes and no. I understand the 'not trusting himself', but still the *objectively* right thing to do was to kill the Master and save the Earth, no matter the consequences to himself. (Like Jack in CoE - Jack did the right thing, although it also made him a monster.) Being fearful of being a monster in the Master's mould is... well, a little late in the day? He's trying to shut the door after the horse has bolted...

I don't think of the Time Lord Victorious as something alien that had to be exorcised but as an experience that Ten couldn't unlearn, however much he might have wanted to, that had become part of him.
That's a very good point - I almost wrote something about it being like a cancer (both in his and Donna's case). Will go add that.

Ten's last line... I think part of it is that RTD doesn't like for his characters to go in despair, to give them the comparatively easy way out of a glorified suicide, or risk having their deaths misunderstood as that.
*ponders* I'll get back to you.

If you look at Jack in MD -- he was only allowed to make the decision to die after he'd realised he didn't want to after all, and after getting a good look at his life and appreciating it. And even then it was Gwen who made the decision in the end, not Jack himself.
You know, I can SEE that. I understand where RTD is going with it and all that. But I still think that Jack is a selfish jerk [in that instance] and that he needs a good smack. Much like Ten does at the end. The opposite of what he's like in CoE, and it saddens me.

Ten had to die because he'd become too much of a god.
But it's all on a Doylist level, which is what makes me keep poking at it. Moffat does the exact same thing over the course of S6, but on a Watsonian level, which is why the changes stick. Ten gets forced through the paces, whereas Eleven comes to understand and accept all the issues and the solution.

(It's late, I'm thinking out loud. I don't want sound as if I'm putting RTD down, because he does what he does very well. I just don't think it was particularly suitable for the Doctor.)

[sensiblecat.livejournal.com]

I see it somewhat differently - that Ten's character arc concerns the Doctor's failed attempt to become human, or at least to "pass" as human. That is a neurotic reaction to the overwhelming horror of what he had to do to end the Time War. He immerses himself in his relationship with Rose as a denial of his own identity as a Time Lord, until be the start of AoG he's virtually welcomed as a son-in-law by Jackie, but the relationship has a brittle quality that is ultimately unsustainable. After he loses Rose, I think it's signifiant that he first names Gallifrey in TRB - and Rusty gave huge prominence to the role of the companion as "someone to stop you." (Contrast this with Amy's role, which is far more to look after the Doctor when he 'doesn't know what he's doing').

I do think S3 and S4 were mostly about Ten becoming a very bad god. I've written meta on this myself, of course. Martha was magnificant when apart from Ten, but disastrous when she was with him (except in his human form) because her idealisation of him, and his knowledge that he could control her through it, began to awaken his most dangerous impulses. Donna was a healthy restraint but once he lost her he was a disaster waiting to happen. TWoM is very much a story of a good man pushed too far - the chasm in his identity opens up as the pressure piles on, and he becomes a monster, but I do believe that initially his motive was genuine compassion.

I think in the final two-parter Ten is redeemed, up to a point. He knows he is doomed once he has to rescue Wilf, and I think he's mightily pissed off that it's something so ordinary, but in a way it's the logical outcome of the story of Ten over-identifying with humanity - one human being is as important as the universe. (I know I put this far more eloquently in my own meta on the subject).

I also feel that everything in the specials needs to be seen through the distorting mirror of Rusty's Tennant worship and the fact that he found the chance of giving DT something to emote about was irresistable, even when it should have been resisted on aesthetic grounds.

Rusty's Doctor wasn't representative of the Doctor over the long haul - when it became clear that the franchise was viable long-term, he had to die. But, Rusty being the man he is, that was never going to happen quietly.

[elisi]

I see it somewhat differently - that Ten's character arc concerns the Doctor's failed attempt to become human, or at least to "pass" as human.
Oh absolutely. Hence me adding that this is only *one* layer. (I like my layers.) And I have written lots on the subject of Ten Wanted To Be Human... Maybe the Victoriousness came about partly as a reaction against this? Because he tried to suppress his real nature?

Anyway, I'm off to bed, so will get to the rest of your comment tomorrow sometime, although I think I agree with most of it. :)

ETA: Don't have a lot to add. Loved your meta on the subject of Ten Wanting To Be Human (and wrote my own).

I also feel that everything in the specials needs to be seen through the distorting mirror of Rusty's Tennant worship and the fact that he found the chance of giving DT something to emote about was irresistable, even when it should have been resisted on aesthetic grounds.
*snickers* Um, this. Although I understand the impulse. Very, very few people can angst as beautifully as DT - like Alexis Denishof (Wesley on Buffy and Angel), he can stand there and just exude pain...

Rusty's Doctor wasn't representative of the Doctor over the long haul - when it became clear that the franchise was viable long-term, he had to die.
It's interesting, because Nine is FINE. S1 is beautiful and nicely in keeping with the old show - it gets the tone a little wrong now and again, because they're still trying to find their feet, but overall: Excellent. And then comes Ten and everything begins to unravel...

[lyricwrites.livejournal.com]

I think in the final two-parter Ten is redeemed, up to a point. He knows he is doomed once he has to rescue Wilf, and I think he's mightily pissed off that it's something so ordinary

This is my view on the thing; that in dying to save one person, the Doctor was rejecting the Time Lord Victorious. Not that he wasn't conflicted, but some aspects of the Time Lord Victorious seem utterly absent from Eleven's personality, most notably the tendency to divide people into "important" and "unimportant." It's no longer an issue for him. It isn't even a temptation—because Ten died killing that beast.

(It is, IMO, an interesting and potentially tragic question whether Ten knew he'd won against himself. In one of my earliest fanfics I had Wilf meet the Doctor, and when they were sorting through the whole "new man goes walking away" thing, the Doctor admitted that he was flat-out terrified of what might come out the other side of that regeneration, because he wasn't sure anymore that his identity as the Doctor was even real—he felt more Time Lord Victorious every day. I don't insist on that interpretation, but I think it's potentially valid.)

Symbolically, the unusually destructive regeneration fits in with the idea of a battle. The Lonely God is defeated, he burns on his pyre—not without destroying things around him, since he was practically the God of Collateral Damage—and the Doctor plunges back down to Earth, figuratively and literally. His next task isn't to save the world or the universe; that comes later. It's to reassure a little girl.

[solitary-summer.livejournal.com]

but still the *objectively* right thing to do was to kill the Master and save the Earth, no matter the consequences to himself.

But the consequences wouldn't be only to himself, if he lost control completely. He might have stopped the Master, but who'd be stopping him? Things could get way worse than WoM, or worse than the current situation.

But I still think that Jack is a selfish jerk [in that instance] and that he needs a good smack.

I think we'll just have to disagree on that. Jack already went in there knowing he was unlikely to come out alive, and certainly not mortal, and he accepted that, right from the start of the last episode. That he balked at condemning Esther is IMO understandable after CoE, and personally I'm glad that just this once the story spared him having to make this decision. (It's maybe also more suitable that Gwen made the final decision, because it affects her personally, her father, her daughter, the whole Earth; in a way it's right that someone actually from the planet and part of the human race should do it.)

Ten gets forced through the paces, whereas Eleven comes to understand and accept all the issues and the solution.

He struggles, but he also does understand the problem, and does the right thing in the end. He accepts it; that he doesn't like for me is both in character as well as understandable.

[elisi]

But the consequences wouldn't be only to himself, if he lost control completely. He might have stopped the Master, but who'd be stopping him? Things could get way worse than WoM, or worse than the current situation.
Anyone with a gun could have stopped him... Heck, he even told Wilf how to kill him for good. (OK, I'm ignoring the character-stuff for the sake of logic. Please ignore me, I'm tired. I know what you're saying, I understand what RTD was doing, I get where Ten is coming from.It just sits badly with me, and that's never going to change. If I look on him as Victorious, it all works much better. Also S5/S6 dealt with all this in great detail, so I'm OK really. He's the Oncoming Storm... He's an unarmed man who can't drive. Honestly, he is ridiculously vulnerable.)

I think we'll just have to disagree on that. Jack already went in there knowing he was unlikely to come out alive, and certainly not mortal, and he accepted that, right from the start of the last episode.
We might be talking about different things, my apologies. Like your point about Gwen though, that's very good.

He struggles, but he also does understand the problem, and does the right thing in the end. He accepts it; that he doesn't like for me is both in character as well as understandable.
Oh don't get me wrong, I don't think it could have gone any other way, and it both IC and understandable, and I adore him to pieces, because he's my beautifully broken Ten.

[(Anonymous)]

Ten got *very* messed up in the head, it has to be said. He tried to be so many different things that he wasn't meant to be that he didn't know what he was anymore, and he was constantly seeking approval from his companions, (i.e. "Look at me! Look at me!") And then, by the time he's Eleven, he suddenly knows who he is: Gandalf. Sort of a Space Gandalf. Or the little green guy from Star Wars. Woooom!

One thing I always thought was interesting was the fact that Ten seemed okay with dying on many occasions. In fact, during The Next Doctor, he seemed rather fascinated by his 'future' incarnation, and seemed rather hopeful for some banter, (i.e. "Not as young as you were when you were me!")

~ srmcd1

[elisi]

And then, by the time he's Eleven, he suddenly knows who he is: Gandalf.
I've been meaning to talk to you about 'Shattered'. It's a lovely vid (and I'd love a download), but the thing that just slayed were the final two clips - they just PERFECTLY encapsulated Ten and Eleven to such a degree that I'm still flailing... Ten being taken up to 'heaven' by angels (utterly absorbed in what's above etc.) and Eleven looking after him, and then turning his eyes back down to earth, and towards the TARDIS. Acknowledging who he was, but utterly content with who he is now. If you could turn that into a gif I would be... incoherent with happiness, because it says what I've spent thousands of words trying to explain.

One thing I always thought was interesting was the fact that Ten seemed okay with dying on many occasions. In fact, during The Next Doctor, he seemed rather fascinated by his 'future' incarnation, and seemed rather hopeful for some banter, (i.e. "Not as young as you were when you were me!")
This - I think it's the fact that it gets foretold. He can sacrifice himself in a moment, but he's not happy to die to someone's else schedule... (The manipulator does not like being manipulated - we see Eleven chafe against this too - even moreso as his death is a fixed point - but of course that story centers around all SORTS of things, that I do not have time to go in to now...

[a-phoenixdragon.livejournal.com]

I.

Love.

You.

All of you actually. This...this whole meta and the comments supporting and clarifying and hashing out ideas and thoughts on said meta. Just...wow. It is helping me to remember and understand aspects of those episodes that my brain had struggled with and rejected before. Just beautiful.

Thank you...

[elisi]

BLESS YOU! ♥

All of you actually. This...this whole meta and the comments supporting and clarifying and hashing out ideas and thoughts on said meta. Just...wow.
It's what I (we) do. My humble abode regularly transforms int a meta cafe. :)

(I also feel that I've slightly mis-represented my thoughts here, because of only looking through ONE filter. This post is the best one I've ever read on Ten's final moments, and what his last words meant.

[a-phoenixdragon.livejournal.com]

I shoulda been hanging out here for the last few YEARS. Maybe then the thinky would have rubbed off on my proper. Instead of just being left to linger in fanfic that no one sane should read, lol!!

Mmmm!! Thank you!! I'll be sure to check that out!! So many ways of seeing the Doctor, so many, many filters! A year could be spent on ONE EPPIE. *Nods*

*SMISHES*

[elisi]

I shoulda been hanging out here for the last few YEARS.
Yes. Yes you should. My LJ can always do with more awesome people. :)

Maybe then the thinky would have rubbed off on my proper. Instead of just being left to linger in fanfic that no one sane should read, lol!!
You say that as if it's a bad thing... ;)

Mmmm!! Thank you!! I'll be sure to check that out!! So many ways of seeing the Doctor, so many, many filters! A year could be spent on ONE EPPIE. *Nods*
Oh yes. Layer after layer after layer. Mmmm meta.

[topaz-eyes.livejournal.com]

The main complaint I've heard re. WoM is that it never went anywhere - Ten went all 'The Laws of Time Are MINE!' but then 'snapped out of it'. My question is - did he?

How could people take Ten's rant at Wilf as anything but the Time Lord Victorious re-emerging?

I think we can interpret this quote another way:

Wilf: But I’ve heard you talk about your people like they’re wonderful!
The Doctor: That’s how I choose to remember them! The Time Lords of old. But then they went to war! And endless war! And it changed them. Right to the core. You’ve seen my enemies, Wilf. The Time Lords are more dangerous than any of them! (bolding mine)

Ten's describing himself here too. Up to JE Ten was, more or less, the Doctor of old. What tempered the Doctor of old were his companions, and his memories of what happened to the Time Lords. Then he chose to explicitly reject his companions in JE. The Time Lords went insane with no one to stop them, and Ten recapitulated that process on a micro-scale. Then, once the Time Lords were forced back in the Time Lock, with the Master no less, Ten had nothing left to keep him back from TLV. Except Wilf, the wise old man almost at the end of his life, ready to sacrifice himself, embodying the essence of the Doctor. With Wilf's scenes we see the Doctor's musings on "Sometimes I think the Time Lord lives too long," followed by "Lived too long."

In that vein I think the Time Lord Victorious died when Ten stepped into the radiation chamber, because to me he seemed more humble afterwards. Ten's Farewell Tour was more that of a father saying goodbye to his children rather than refusing to acquiesce to his death sentence. Like a dying person holding on for one last holiday, wanting to give one last gift. I think we'll have to agree to disagree here. "I don't want to go" could be interpreted as one last gasp from the TLV, but I don't think it is.

Also: ooooh, thank you! I'm surprised how relevant "Midnight" actually was to the mytharc, especially considering the Time Lord Victorious. I like your cancer metaphor for Ten; it's appropriate, because the Time Lord Victorious was always a part of him, slowly mutating and growing beneath the veneer. (I have to disagree with using that metaphor for Donna, though. Doctor!Donna was imposed on her, more akin to an infection than a cancer.)

[elisi]

How could people take Ten's rant at Wilf as anything but the Time Lord Victorious re-emerging?
I'm not sure, but just from what I've observed people saying, obviously some people don't find it a straightforward connection. (Half the time when I write meta, I feel like I'm stating Obvious Truths, and everyone is just going to roll their eyes...)

Ten's describing himself here too.
That is, actually, exactly what I was trying to say with that quote - if the was changed them, surely it changed him too. He can only really see it/acknowledge it when it's external (TenToo, the other Time Lords), but yes, it's very very much about himself. I've written before about how, as the Last Time Lord, what a Time Lord *is*, is up to him... Not just the memory of those who died, but who *he* is. (Love how this is addressed in AGMGTW - 'Why would a Time Lord be a weapon?'/'Well... they've seen you'.) But I think I'm rambling?

Except Wilf, the wise old man almost at the end of his life, ready to sacrifice himself, embodying the essence of the Doctor. With Wilf's scenes we see the Doctor's musings on "Sometimes I think the Time Lord lives too long," followed by "Lived too long."
::nods a lot::

In that vein I think the Time Lord Victorious died when Ten stepped into the radiation chamber, because to me he seemed more humble afterwards.
Which goes very well with the theory that who ever is around when he dies imprints on him - Rose imprinted on Ten, and Wilf imprints on Eleven (as does Amelia, I think).

I think we'll have to agree to disagree here. "I don't want to go" could be interpreted as one last gasp from the TLV, but I don't think it is.
That was mostly me stretching my thought as far as it would go. Generally I'm with this meta, talking about how it's mostly regret he feels [over a - partly - misspent life] and how Eleven is the answer to this: Someone who lives fully.

I like your cancer metaphor for Ten; it's appropriate, because the Time Lord Victorious was always a part of him, slowly mutating and growing beneath the veneer.
:)

I have to disagree with using that metaphor for Donna, though. Doctor!Donna was imposed on her, more akin to an infection than a cancer.
Very true. It's difficult to keep your metaphors straight when you're in a rush... *g*

[sensiblecat.livejournal.com]

Generally I'm with this meta, talking about how it's mostly regret he feels [over a - partly - misspent life] and how Eleven is the answer to this: Someone who lives fully.


Yes, that's so true, isn't it? You get the feeling that in between what we see of Eleven with Amy and Rory (and even River) there are vast swathes of adventures rather like the ones hinted at at the very start of Impossible Astronaut. You can never think of Ten alone without worrying about him, but Eleven will be popping up under some lady's skirt, or fixing up a child's dream bedroom somewhere.

[elisi]

there are vast swathes of adventures rather like the ones hinted at at the very start of Impossible Astronaut.
A whole 200 years... It's like an endless license for writing FitBs! :)

[topaz-eyes.livejournal.com]

RTD cut a bit out of Wilf's and Ten's dialogue on the Hesperus that puts the "this is my reward" bit at the end in context. From the shooting script:

WILF: But you said... you were told, he will knock four times. And then you die. That's him, isn't it, The Master? The noise in his head? The Master is going to kill you.

THE DOCTOR: Yeah.

WILF: Then kill him first.

(cut dialogue begins)

WILF (CONT'D) Don't you deserve it?

THE DOCTOR: Ohh yeah. Isn't that the truth? Got it in one! I deserve it, absolutely! I so deserve to live. Everything I've done, the lives I've saved, the people, the planets,
every single star in the sky. So where is it, then? Just once. Where's the reward?

WILF: Then take it.

(cut dialogue ends)

THE DOCTOR: And that's how the Master started.

It's revealing how this bit got cut, because yikes, what a thing for the Doctor to admit to Wilf, that he deserves a reward for what he's done. I think it proves your idea that the Time Lord Victorious was always quietly ticking throughout TEoT.

jackaholic's meta about Ten's final moments is spot-on with how I see it, too. It was clear by PotD that Ten was just going through the motions.

[elisi]

It's revealing how this bit got cut, because yikes, what a thing for the Doctor to admit to Wilf, that he deserves a reward for what he's done. I think it proves your idea that the Time Lord Victorious was always quietly ticking throughout TEoT.
I've been sat here nearly speechless for ages as my brain's been trying to absorb this. Mostly my reaction is 'WHY DOES RUSTY CUT STUFF? WHY WHY WHY WHY WHYYYYYYYYY?'

I never liked that scene, and I'm now hitting myself over the head because I disliked it because the whole point of it was cut out! I just. *hands* Those lines throw EVERYTHING else into perfect focus, and everything he does suddenly makes so much more sense. The reason I disliked it so much was that I thought he was lying... And I don't mind selfish bastards, as long as they're honest about it. AND HE WAS!

Really, what I'm trying to say is THANK YOU. You've made me love Ten in EoT, which I've found increasingly difficult. But oh, I understand him now.

(It's late, I'm half asleep, and I'll get back to you later. Probably tomorrow sometime if I'm lucky. But oh, you've tipped everything upside down in the most fabulous way and if I ever meet Rusty i shall have to shout at him for CUTTING THE MOST IMPORTANT PART! I don't care that it was not suitable for children or whatever excuse he'd trot out. All that stuff went over their heads anyway. Srsly, I had to EXPLAIN WoM to mine... This was the Doctor's goddamn motivation and it got cut. *cries*)

[lyricwrites.livejournal.com]

THE DOCTOR: Ohh yeah. Isn't that the truth? Got it in one! I deserve it, absolutely! I so deserve to live. Everything I've done, the lives I've saved, the people, the planets,
every single star in the sky. So where is it, then? Just once. Where's the reward?

WILF: Then take it.

(cut dialogue ends)

THE DOCTOR: And that's how the Master started.

*boggles*

YES. HE DID.

It wasn't the noise. It was never the noise. Oh, the noise made him short-tempered, made him erratic, made him stand out in a society where conformity was king. It might have broken him eventually, but it never made him kill, or torture. It was that thought: I deserve.

I deserve respect. I deserve better. I deserve to be top of my class, that conniving creature who came in first probably cheated, or bribed the professor. I deserve familial praise that doesn't come with unspoken footnotes, especially considering that you're a little off, the psychologists never could find that drumming of yours, why do you have to stand out so? I deserve a boyfriend who doesn't quarrel with me, I deserve a relationship that's always as magical as the first night we stayed up until dawn talking about all the things we could do if only we had the freedom of the entire universe. In fact, don't I deserve a little bit of . . . adulation? Reverence, even? It's not as if I haven't worked for it, as if I'm not brilliant enough—why does the universe refuse to give me what I deserve?

Of course, I am a Time Lord. I could just . . . take it.

/Master thoughts. Personally, I was never entirely sold on the drums, and the thought that the Master started by killing someone who might be trying to kill him—honestly, I'd forgotten that was in there, because it just failed to resonate with me in any way. But the Master slowly corrupting himself with that one insidious thought, I deserve—that works. That's true.

[promethia_tenk]

Have just realized why I have basically nothing to say to this or your other post, which is:

So, thoughts about Victoriousness under the cut. The main complaint I've heard re. WoM is that it never went anywhere - Ten went all 'The Laws of Time Are MINE!' but then 'snapped out of it'. My question is - did he?

Wait, what, people think that?

But I usually have to lump all of Ten into one bin labeled "Ten" and The Christmas Invasion doesn't look that fundamentally different from Waters of Mars or EoT or anything else along the way. And I'll admit sometimes you start talking RTD with other RTD people and my brain goes la la la and imagines little Adipose dancing through the streets and Gwen blowing things up. Not the Adipose. Those images are separate.

It's also possible that it is Monday and I am tired and a milkshake and wine does not actually count as dinner . . .

[promethia_tenk]

Though now Gwen is blowing things up and the Adipose are standing around her ankles going eeeeeee and grinning little toothy grins and big eyes and little jumpy waves and trying to touch the explosions.

I would pay good money to see this.

Milkshake and wine definitely does not count as dinner.

[elisi]

Though now Gwen is blowing things up and the Adipose are standing around her ankles going eeeeeee and grinning little toothy grins and big eyes and little jumpy waves and trying to touch the explosions.
THAT IS WHAT MD NEEDED!!!! Damn. Would have made more sense too.

Milkshake and wine definitely does not count as dinner.
No. But it sounds good. :)

[elisi]

Wait, what, people think that?
I think they wanted Evil Doctor, and they didn't get Evil Doctor and are therefore disappoint!

But I usually have to lump all of Ten into one bin labeled "Ten" and The Christmas Invasion doesn't look that fundamentally different from Waters of Mars or EoT or anything else along the way. And I'll admit sometimes you start talking RTD with other RTD people and my brain goes la la la and imagines little Adipose dancing through the streets and Gwen blowing things up. Not the Adipose. Those images are separate.
Have I mentioned lately that I love your brain?

[promethia_tenk]

I think they wanted Evil Doctor, and they didn't get Evil Doctor and are therefore disappoint!
I'd be on board if it could be 200-foot tall Ten smashing buildings like Godzilla. That would have improved EoT. That and Adipose *nods*

Actually, I think my Ten bin is just labeled "hard work young" and anytime I start going cross-eyed I decide there may be more detailed things to say about Ten, but that covers everything of importance and . . . hey Gwen and explosions and Adipose! It is like a get-out-of-crazy-free card, bless Santa Moff.

Have I mentioned lately that I love your brain?
Not lately. They must be overworking you, you poor thing *soothes* Maybe you should have some tea and a sit-down.