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This post is COMPLETELY tongue-in-cheek!
OK, so Promethia and I stared arguing over which episodes were worst/the maddest - the S4 finale or EoT. Now, I need to explain that this is not some kind of RTD-bashing excuse. I love those episodes like pancakes. I watched TSE six times when it first aired. I watch EoT through a haze of 'Mmmmm Doctor/Master... Wait, was there something else happening?' Seriously - give me crack, I will eat it up with a spoon.
HOWEVER. EoT - IMHO - makes NO SENSE plot wise. Cut & pasted from another post:
Stuff happens just because it happens. I mean, what's the deal with the Doctor's mother talking to Wilf? How does she do it? WHY? How do the Naismith's know about the Master returning? Why is Wilf the only one who can remember the dreams? Why does Rassilon narrate, and from what point in his personal timeline does he do so? WHO gave the Ood the gift to see through time? I just... It's not MD levels of bad (the continuity is fine), it's just a lot of random stuff tied together. *shakes head and tells self to focus on the Doctor/Master* (Also the EPIC EPIC ANGST is sort of undercut by the fact that... he's not really DYING, y'know? He's going to be FINE. It's such a storm in a teacup. But then Ten always ate up ALL his drama-flakes.) [...] If actual angels had appeared at that point and helped the Doctor on his final STRUGGLING walk I wouldn't have been the least surprised. It's so OTT that it's almost collapsing from lack of oxygen.
The best explanation is actually this one, by![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
10littlebullets:
'I found that EoT makes perfect sense if you think of the whole thing as Ten's regeneration-sickness-induced fever dream: somewhere, somewhen, he tripped over a brick and hit his head and was so disappointed at his anticlimactic regeneration that he dreamed of an epic universe-imperilling death sequence where he is the most important person in the universe, his angst is so tragic and full of pathos look at all the burdens on his poor shoulders, he gets final confirmation that he was right to blow up the Time Lords, the Master is staring into his eyes and wibbling about their lost childhood on Gallifrey, and the whole thing works by dream logic.'
Again, I mock BECAUSE I LOVE. Honestly, mostly I just want to hug EoT. However, it doesn't make sense. Promethia, though, thinks that TSE/JE is worse in the sense making department:
'Whereas Ten siphoning off his regeneration energy into his amputated hand, which then calls out to Donna backwards through time to make her touch it, thus producing a human/Time Lord clone which can be left in a parallel universe with the slightly clingy girlfriend is the epitome of sense making, yes you are right. ;)'
Personally I can easily hand-wave all that stuff because of 'These things happen on a Hellmouth'. (You know what I mean.) Timelords can do all kinds of mad things. It's like magic. Those episodes might be crammed full of more STUFF than should be possible, but at least it mostly makes sense... Comparatively.
ETA: Promethia wishes to clarify her position: 'My argument was really that TSE/JE are worse episodes in general, of which the blatant trampling on sense is only a part.'
So, gentle flist, what is your opinion? Again, this is NOT an invitation to say nasty things about RTD. I luff him very much. He just writes MAD stuff (which is one reason I luff him - logic is for losers. *g*)
[Poll #1845878]
(Although if you want something more serious, then I posted the final chapter of My Immortal 2 yesterday.)
HOWEVER. EoT - IMHO - makes NO SENSE plot wise. Cut & pasted from another post:
Stuff happens just because it happens. I mean, what's the deal with the Doctor's mother talking to Wilf? How does she do it? WHY? How do the Naismith's know about the Master returning? Why is Wilf the only one who can remember the dreams? Why does Rassilon narrate, and from what point in his personal timeline does he do so? WHO gave the Ood the gift to see through time? I just... It's not MD levels of bad (the continuity is fine), it's just a lot of random stuff tied together. *shakes head and tells self to focus on the Doctor/Master* (Also the EPIC EPIC ANGST is sort of undercut by the fact that... he's not really DYING, y'know? He's going to be FINE. It's such a storm in a teacup. But then Ten always ate up ALL his drama-flakes.) [...] If actual angels had appeared at that point and helped the Doctor on his final STRUGGLING walk I wouldn't have been the least surprised. It's so OTT that it's almost collapsing from lack of oxygen.
The best explanation is actually this one, by
10littlebullets:'I found that EoT makes perfect sense if you think of the whole thing as Ten's regeneration-sickness-induced fever dream: somewhere, somewhen, he tripped over a brick and hit his head and was so disappointed at his anticlimactic regeneration that he dreamed of an epic universe-imperilling death sequence where he is the most important person in the universe, his angst is so tragic and full of pathos look at all the burdens on his poor shoulders, he gets final confirmation that he was right to blow up the Time Lords, the Master is staring into his eyes and wibbling about their lost childhood on Gallifrey, and the whole thing works by dream logic.'
Again, I mock BECAUSE I LOVE. Honestly, mostly I just want to hug EoT. However, it doesn't make sense. Promethia, though, thinks that TSE/JE is worse in the sense making department:
'Whereas Ten siphoning off his regeneration energy into his amputated hand, which then calls out to Donna backwards through time to make her touch it, thus producing a human/Time Lord clone which can be left in a parallel universe with the slightly clingy girlfriend is the epitome of sense making, yes you are right. ;)'
Personally I can easily hand-wave all that stuff because of 'These things happen on a Hellmouth'. (You know what I mean.) Timelords can do all kinds of mad things. It's like magic. Those episodes might be crammed full of more STUFF than should be possible, but at least it mostly makes sense... Comparatively.
ETA: Promethia wishes to clarify her position: 'My argument was really that TSE/JE are worse episodes in general, of which the blatant trampling on sense is only a part.'
So, gentle flist, what is your opinion? Again, this is NOT an invitation to say nasty things about RTD. I luff him very much. He just writes MAD stuff (which is one reason I luff him - logic is for losers. *g*)
[Poll #1845878]
(Although if you want something more serious, then I posted the final chapter of My Immortal 2 yesterday.)
no subject
Also he's too manic. I get tired just from watching...
This is why I don't understand a couple of Ten's 'massive' fans because I almost want to ask them if they forget his treatment of Martha when they try to claim that Nine and Eleven are the real jackasses of the bunch. Just... what?!
Mmmmmm. Mind you, all of the Doctor is a bastard. Except for Five, I think. Seven CERTAINLY is, and I think it's one of his finest assets. Ten's jackassness however is entirely self-centered, which is what makes it so unpalatable. Don't get me wrong, I love him like pancakes, but... Eleven is kind, y'know? Ten has many good qualities, but kindness isn't one of them. (I need to work on that meta of mine.)
And I'm one of those art students who comes up with weird compliments like "Your face will inspire me when I get to study 3D character facial animation. :D"
I approve of this very much.
no subject
Oh yeah, definitely. The Doctor pretty much is an asshole.
Ten's jackassness however is entirely self-centered, which is what makes it so unpalatable.
Personally, I don't even know if it's the self-centered-ness that is so off-putting. Or at least as it's part of his character. I think it's more to do with the writing, and how it's shown. Like with:
1 - Martha walking out of the TARDIS at the end of Series and the camera focuses on the Doctor, making it like "but look how the Doctor hurts."
2 - Just apply the above camera focus after he dropped off Donna.
I almost want to compare to one of my favorite series, Death Note, which could've been called 'Battle of the Jackasses'- but almost none of the actions of either the protagonist or the antagonist are shown in a favorable light.