This post is COMPLETELY tongue-in-cheek!

[elisi]

OK, so Promethia and I stared arguing over which episodes were worst/the maddest - the S4 finale or EoT. Now, I need to explain that this is not some kind of RTD-bashing excuse. I love those episodes like pancakes. I watched TSE six times when it first aired. I watch EoT through a haze of 'Mmmmm Doctor/Master... Wait, was there something else happening?' Seriously - give me crack, I will eat it up with a spoon.

HOWEVER. EoT - IMHO - makes NO SENSE plot wise. Cut & pasted from another post:

Stuff happens just because it happens. I mean, what's the deal with the Doctor's mother talking to Wilf? How does she do it? WHY? How do the Naismith's know about the Master returning? Why is Wilf the only one who can remember the dreams? Why does Rassilon narrate, and from what point in his personal timeline does he do so? WHO gave the Ood the gift to see through time? I just... It's not MD levels of bad (the continuity is fine), it's just a lot of random stuff tied together. *shakes head and tells self to focus on the Doctor/Master* (Also the EPIC EPIC ANGST is sort of undercut by the fact that... he's not really DYING, y'know? He's going to be FINE. It's such a storm in a teacup. But then Ten always ate up ALL his drama-flakes.) [...] If actual angels had appeared at that point and helped the Doctor on his final STRUGGLING walk I wouldn't have been the least surprised. It's so OTT that it's almost collapsing from lack of oxygen.

The best explanation is actually this one, by 10littlebullets:

'I found that EoT makes perfect sense if you think of the whole thing as Ten's regeneration-sickness-induced fever dream: somewhere, somewhen, he tripped over a brick and hit his head and was so disappointed at his anticlimactic regeneration that he dreamed of an epic universe-imperilling death sequence where he is the most important person in the universe, his angst is so tragic and full of pathos look at all the burdens on his poor shoulders, he gets final confirmation that he was right to blow up the Time Lords, the Master is staring into his eyes and wibbling about their lost childhood on Gallifrey, and the whole thing works by dream logic.'

Again, I mock BECAUSE I LOVE. Honestly, mostly I just want to hug EoT. However, it doesn't make sense. Promethia, though, thinks that TSE/JE is worse in the sense making department:

'Whereas Ten siphoning off his regeneration energy into his amputated hand, which then calls out to Donna backwards through time to make her touch it, thus producing a human/Time Lord clone which can be left in a parallel universe with the slightly clingy girlfriend is the epitome of sense making, yes you are right. ;)'

Personally I can easily hand-wave all that stuff because of 'These things happen on a Hellmouth'. (You know what I mean.) Timelords can do all kinds of mad things. It's like magic. Those episodes might be crammed full of more STUFF than should be possible, but at least it mostly makes sense... Comparatively.

ETA: Promethia wishes to clarify her position: 'My argument was really that TSE/JE are worse episodes in general, of which the blatant trampling on sense is only a part.'


So, gentle flist, what is your opinion? Again, this is NOT an invitation to say nasty things about RTD. I luff him very much. He just writes MAD stuff (which is one reason I luff him - logic is for losers. *g*)

[Poll #1845878]

(Although if you want something more serious, then I posted the final chapter of My Immortal 2 yesterday.)

Comments

[honeynoir.livejournal.com]

Hmm, I want to say that the Time Lords' plan makes more sense than Davros's Reality Bomb... but TSE/JE concludes the Arc of Ten's Hand... and I need coffee.

[elisi]

Here's Ianto with some coffee. *pets*

(The Time Lords plan is pretty good, no problems with that. It's all the stuff with Wilf & the Doctor's mother that throws me.)

[honeynoir.livejournal.com]

Aw, yay, coffee!

(Oh, right, didn't see that part of the post... *drinks moar coffee* Maybe the Ood found her and told on the Doctor... and also taught her to appear out of nowhere?) Admittedly, I haven't seen EoT in ages, and the question I remember coming back to is whether the Master dyed his hair or if it was a side-effect of him returning, so.

[elisi]

Maybe the Ood found her and told on the Doctor... and also taught her to appear out of nowhere?
BUT HOW DID THE OOD GET THOSE POWERS? *bangs head on desk* All she needed was to look at him at the right moment, and that happened without any string pulling - talking to Wilf is utterly superfluous. Except for getting the gun, I suppose. But how does she know that the Doctor will need a gun? (OK, stopping now. IT JUST HAPPENS and the Doctor is very beautiful and tragic.)

Admittedly, I haven't seen EoT in ages, and the question I remember coming back to is whether the Master dyed his hair or if it was a side-effect of him returning, so.
Ooooh I know this! There was supposed to be a scene of him dying his hair in some seedy public toilet (in a rather useless attempt at making himself look different). Let me go look it up in a minute, because it sounded pretty awesome...

[honeynoir.livejournal.com]

BUT HOW DID THE OOD GET THOSE POWERS? *bangs head on desk*
Weren't the Ood changed by... some event or other? That thing Ten mentioned in maybe 'Planet of the Ood'? (I may be thinking of something that has nothing to do with this.)

But how does she know that the Doctor will need a gun? OOD.

[elisi]

And I quote:

D [impressed]: Ah! Magnificent! [elbows Ood Sigma to get a response from him] Oh come on, that is! Splendid. You've achieved all this in how long?

OS: One hundred years.

D [worried]: Then we've got a problem. 'Cos all this is way too fast, not just the city, I mean your ability to call me, reaching all the way back to the 21st century. Something's accelerating your species way beyond normal.

OS: And the mind of the Ood is troubled.

D: Why? What's happened?

OS: Every night Doctor, every night we have bad dreams.

[...]

OE: The Ood have gained this power to see through time. Because time is bleeding. Shapes of things once lost are moving through the veil. And these events from years ago threaten to destroy this future. And the present. And the past.

And that's all the explanation we're given. Which is, admittedly, more than I remembered. Still, it's one of those times where I can see the puppeteer too clearly to enjoy the show. (Well, the logic of it. The emotional parts are FINE.)

[honeynoir.livejournal.com]

Oh, yeah, that was what I was thinking about. It was more vague than I remembered... That doesn't explain anything, does it? (Maybe it's because it's even more science fantasy than usual, idk? Not that TSE/JE wasn't...)

[elisi]

We got these powers because the plot needed it just because we did. So there.

Good thing the Master is so pretty, and that Ten angsts to well.

[honeynoir.livejournal.com]

Good thing the Master is so pretty, and that Ten angsts to well.
Yeah, and tbgh, these are enough for me. Just as I love TSE/JE for the all-working-together parts and because Donna is awesome (with and without Ten's mind).

Thanks for the knowledge of the Master's hair, btw -- I can stop wondering, now! \o/

[elisi]

Yeah, and tbgh, these are enough for me. Just as I love TSE/JE for the all-working-together parts and because Donna is awesome (with and without Ten's mind).
Yeah, I rather love it all...

[promethia_tenk]

And that's all the explanation we're given. Which is, admittedly, more than I remembered. Still, it's one of those times where I can see the puppeteer too clearly to enjoy the show. (Well, the logic of it. The emotional parts are FINE.)
See this is the way I feel through the ENTIRETY OF TSE/JE. Just . . . constantly. I'm not watching a tv show; I'm watching Rusty . . . doing things. Really stupid things. And then the emotional parts are all pat, rushed, pandering . . .

[elisi]

Awwww. *pets* I can understand that, I suppose. Although I can fanwank STE/JA in ways I can't EoT. But EoT is better emotionally. So...

'Tis complicated.

[elisi]

the question I remember coming back to is whether the Master dyed his hair or if it was a side-effect of him returning, so.
I FOUND IT! *loves The Writers Tale to DISTRACTION* Also, it beautifully illustrates why I forgive RTD ANYTHING:

So, I think the Master should disguise himself. He could dye his hair blond. In a public toilet. He's scrubbing away at the sink. That puts in mind an Ortonesque, post-watershed scene where the Master is dying his hair like a rent boy, and a smart businessman comes in cruising, and the Master takes him into a cubicle, and murders him. Maybe after sex. That won't happen, for obvious reasons, but I thought of it anyway. Oh, and he could grow a beard, then he really is the Master! Yeah, that could work. And somebody could still say, 'You look like the Prime Minister.' 'Yeah, I get that a lot.' Nice.

You see? (This also neatly illustrates why he had such problems with DW - his mind is faaaar too filthy. *g*)

[honeynoir.livejournal.com]

Ooh, awesome! Thank you! :D

I need to get that book, because RTD.

(I'm starting to see how we got Torchwood. ;))

[elisi]

It is a truly awesome book! ♥

(I'm starting to see how we got Torchwood. ;))
IKR? He could throw all the filth (with added crack!) into TW. ::draws hearts::

[promethia_tenk]

It is the best. I periodically find myself having accidentally reread half of it without even realizing.

[honeynoir.livejournal.com]

O rly? Haven't had a book like that in ages. *orders*

[elisi]

*dances*

There is nothing like it anywhere!

[promethia_tenk]

Hehehehehee, yay!

It's pretty much the most naked, insightful thing about writing I've ever read, and very entertaining if you like a bit of schadenfreude.

Also rather alarmingly illuminating of why . . . well, why many things about RTD Who.

[skipthedemon.livejournal.com]

You have a point, about the Time Lord's plan. It's a gigantic dick move for the rest of the universe, but if all you care about is the continued existence of your people, it makes sense.

[honeynoir.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's horrible, but apparently in character for Rassilon.