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This post is COMPLETELY tongue-in-cheek!
OK, so Promethia and I stared arguing over which episodes were worst/the maddest - the S4 finale or EoT. Now, I need to explain that this is not some kind of RTD-bashing excuse. I love those episodes like pancakes. I watched TSE six times when it first aired. I watch EoT through a haze of 'Mmmmm Doctor/Master... Wait, was there something else happening?' Seriously - give me crack, I will eat it up with a spoon.
HOWEVER. EoT - IMHO - makes NO SENSE plot wise. Cut & pasted from another post:
Stuff happens just because it happens. I mean, what's the deal with the Doctor's mother talking to Wilf? How does she do it? WHY? How do the Naismith's know about the Master returning? Why is Wilf the only one who can remember the dreams? Why does Rassilon narrate, and from what point in his personal timeline does he do so? WHO gave the Ood the gift to see through time? I just... It's not MD levels of bad (the continuity is fine), it's just a lot of random stuff tied together. *shakes head and tells self to focus on the Doctor/Master* (Also the EPIC EPIC ANGST is sort of undercut by the fact that... he's not really DYING, y'know? He's going to be FINE. It's such a storm in a teacup. But then Ten always ate up ALL his drama-flakes.) [...] If actual angels had appeared at that point and helped the Doctor on his final STRUGGLING walk I wouldn't have been the least surprised. It's so OTT that it's almost collapsing from lack of oxygen.
The best explanation is actually this one, by![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
10littlebullets:
'I found that EoT makes perfect sense if you think of the whole thing as Ten's regeneration-sickness-induced fever dream: somewhere, somewhen, he tripped over a brick and hit his head and was so disappointed at his anticlimactic regeneration that he dreamed of an epic universe-imperilling death sequence where he is the most important person in the universe, his angst is so tragic and full of pathos look at all the burdens on his poor shoulders, he gets final confirmation that he was right to blow up the Time Lords, the Master is staring into his eyes and wibbling about their lost childhood on Gallifrey, and the whole thing works by dream logic.'
Again, I mock BECAUSE I LOVE. Honestly, mostly I just want to hug EoT. However, it doesn't make sense. Promethia, though, thinks that TSE/JE is worse in the sense making department:
'Whereas Ten siphoning off his regeneration energy into his amputated hand, which then calls out to Donna backwards through time to make her touch it, thus producing a human/Time Lord clone which can be left in a parallel universe with the slightly clingy girlfriend is the epitome of sense making, yes you are right. ;)'
Personally I can easily hand-wave all that stuff because of 'These things happen on a Hellmouth'. (You know what I mean.) Timelords can do all kinds of mad things. It's like magic. Those episodes might be crammed full of more STUFF than should be possible, but at least it mostly makes sense... Comparatively.
ETA: Promethia wishes to clarify her position: 'My argument was really that TSE/JE are worse episodes in general, of which the blatant trampling on sense is only a part.'
So, gentle flist, what is your opinion? Again, this is NOT an invitation to say nasty things about RTD. I luff him very much. He just writes MAD stuff (which is one reason I luff him - logic is for losers. *g*)
[Poll #1845878]
(Although if you want something more serious, then I posted the final chapter of My Immortal 2 yesterday.)
HOWEVER. EoT - IMHO - makes NO SENSE plot wise. Cut & pasted from another post:
Stuff happens just because it happens. I mean, what's the deal with the Doctor's mother talking to Wilf? How does she do it? WHY? How do the Naismith's know about the Master returning? Why is Wilf the only one who can remember the dreams? Why does Rassilon narrate, and from what point in his personal timeline does he do so? WHO gave the Ood the gift to see through time? I just... It's not MD levels of bad (the continuity is fine), it's just a lot of random stuff tied together. *shakes head and tells self to focus on the Doctor/Master* (Also the EPIC EPIC ANGST is sort of undercut by the fact that... he's not really DYING, y'know? He's going to be FINE. It's such a storm in a teacup. But then Ten always ate up ALL his drama-flakes.) [...] If actual angels had appeared at that point and helped the Doctor on his final STRUGGLING walk I wouldn't have been the least surprised. It's so OTT that it's almost collapsing from lack of oxygen.
The best explanation is actually this one, by
10littlebullets:'I found that EoT makes perfect sense if you think of the whole thing as Ten's regeneration-sickness-induced fever dream: somewhere, somewhen, he tripped over a brick and hit his head and was so disappointed at his anticlimactic regeneration that he dreamed of an epic universe-imperilling death sequence where he is the most important person in the universe, his angst is so tragic and full of pathos look at all the burdens on his poor shoulders, he gets final confirmation that he was right to blow up the Time Lords, the Master is staring into his eyes and wibbling about their lost childhood on Gallifrey, and the whole thing works by dream logic.'
Again, I mock BECAUSE I LOVE. Honestly, mostly I just want to hug EoT. However, it doesn't make sense. Promethia, though, thinks that TSE/JE is worse in the sense making department:
'Whereas Ten siphoning off his regeneration energy into his amputated hand, which then calls out to Donna backwards through time to make her touch it, thus producing a human/Time Lord clone which can be left in a parallel universe with the slightly clingy girlfriend is the epitome of sense making, yes you are right. ;)'
Personally I can easily hand-wave all that stuff because of 'These things happen on a Hellmouth'. (You know what I mean.) Timelords can do all kinds of mad things. It's like magic. Those episodes might be crammed full of more STUFF than should be possible, but at least it mostly makes sense... Comparatively.
ETA: Promethia wishes to clarify her position: 'My argument was really that TSE/JE are worse episodes in general, of which the blatant trampling on sense is only a part.'
So, gentle flist, what is your opinion? Again, this is NOT an invitation to say nasty things about RTD. I luff him very much. He just writes MAD stuff (which is one reason I luff him - logic is for losers. *g*)
[Poll #1845878]
(Although if you want something more serious, then I posted the final chapter of My Immortal 2 yesterday.)
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I mean, I'm watching DOCTOR WHO. Even as a kid, reality and sense-making was not the theme. So...I loves it all. And the Doctor/Master thing...guh, sorry, there was plot during that?!
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HOWEVER, I think EoT makes less sense than TSE/JE. Speaking objectively.
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And
When watching DOCTOR WHO. Yeah, lol!!
Mmmmm...Doctor/Master. I forgave RTD everything nonsensical with those shippy moments. Like the TARDIS being alive, we've always known there was SOMETHING going on with those two. GUH. And *WIBBLE*. And GUH.
*SQUISHES*
no subject
The funny thing is that I am HUGELY protective of it, because the overall [fannish] reaction was so negative at the time. But I never tried to argue that it made *sense* [except emotionally]. ;)
Mmmmm...Doctor/Master. I forgave RTD everything nonsensical with those shippy moments. Like the TARDIS being alive, we've always known there was SOMETHING going on with those two. GUH. And *WIBBLE*. And GUH.
I have a half-finished draft of a fic where the Mater turns up & he and River argue over who loves the Doctor more... (Oh and the Doctor is SUCH a bastard. The Master needs about a million hugs. Well... OK, so he's evil and all, but still.) By the way, did I ever mention that I've written Master/Illyria? (Hey look at me being random...)
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OH. WANT THAT. Gimme!! Love it when the Doctor is a bastard *chuckles*
OMG...want that too!! YAY Random!!
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Totally. *is self-proclaimed Polly-Anna* Besides, what's the point of watching if you dislike it?
And at that time, I was blissfully unaware of fandom reactions, lol!!
I stay pretty ensconced in my own corner, but sometimes I can feel the waves even here. :(
OH. WANT THAT. Gimme!! Love it when the Doctor is a bastard *chuckles*
If I can ever get it sorted, it's all yours. It's suffereing from an overabundance of 'Maybe's - I have about 10 different versions. /o\ But it grew out of these two tiny things:
The Master Returns. Again.
(Link to the next part in post. Both of them VERY short.)
And the Master/Illyria thing is part of My Immortal (I had to deal with The Year That Never Was...). Long. (As everything else in that 'verse...) I can link you (it stands pretty well on its own), but it'll eat your afternoon.
no subject
Aww....we need to get protective shielding *NODS*
AWESOME. *SNAGS LINK* Make it happen, bb...I shall sick Rassilon on youse!!
Dude...I am so ready for Fandom to eat my Life. You have NO idea, lol!!
*SMISHES*
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And I just had another look at that fic... Seriously, I've still no idea how to do it. Unless I post ten different versions. *sigh* Also I seem to have lost part of it. ::worries:: Although you can read the very start here (WIP meme) - follows on straight from the end of the second drabble.
And oh, I wish I had the time to be eaten by fandom... *deep sigh*
*SQUISH*
no subject
OMG...this makes me want it even more!! I DON'T CARE WHAT HAPPENS. I just want it...*sobs*...actually, I want all of it. EVERY PIECE THERE *goes to reread Martha and Mickey's tale*
If I had that time myself, likely I'd be lonely...all paddling around at my end of the wading pool and no one to play with. Meh.
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I could link you to my 'River & Eleven run into Jack' fic? That's pretty fun. *g*
Oh, I'd join you! :D
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GIMME.
Only cause youse is sweet like that. *Kisses you*
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And my fic masterlist (the DW/TW part) is here. The fic in question, however, can be found here:
Knowing Me, Knowing You...
(The index post for My Immortal is here for whenever you feel like dipping your toes. The Master/Illyria part is the TYTNW story, obviously. About 10,000 words I think...)
ANYWAY. I need to go make tea. Boo.
no subject
*SNATCHES RUDELY* Thank you. *Grins*
Ohhh, gonna be getting to that soon...need to get away from my own headspace for awhile methinks. Dithering too much in self-pity and internal suckage at the mo'. Need to get lost in some pretty...
Save some for me, please. Might get the mastery of Time Travel any moment now...Space travel included (of course)
no subject
And I understand about getting lost. Tis a good thing!
Well I meant tea, as in 'evening meal', but we tend to always have proper tea, so by all means drop by whenever you feel like it! :)