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I HAD A POST ABOUT EoT AND LJ ATE IT!!!! (We - well mostly the Cherub - watched it at lunchtime.)

Impish Girl on Ten's rant after the four knocks (I transcribed it word for word):

"If I was ever a Doctor or a Companion I wouldn't want to end my time like that - with a fit and a paddy."

Mostly my post was about how MISERABLE the Doctor is throughout. It can understand WHY (and I like EoT), but it's a bit of a drag. (Esp in the light of S6. But I have meta brewing on the whole thing, so I shall leave that part alone for now.) Plus the plot makes even less sense than I remember. I mean... stuff just happens. It's amazing, really, particularly all the stuff with the Doctor's mother. It makes NO SENSE. But it's sweet, so I don't really mind. I just marvel.

Finally, then Darcy's reaction to "This song is ending. But the story never ends" never fails to entertain, because he physically recoils from the screen and flails as if to ward off great evil. He obviously manages to wipe it from his mind every time he sees it, but then he has to cope with hearing it anew, and the horribleness of it always gets to him. *is amused*

Anyway, then there is DARLING ELEVENTY and happiness and joy and Geronimoooo! <3

(Just realised that what EoT needed was Spike (or River, since she is the Spike of the 'verse) to stand around and go 'Drama queen!' and/or 'Dear God, you're hard work young!' at all of Ten's histrionics.)

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I feel like you and your family need to do a MS3K-style commentary on all of Doctor Who. Your reactions are always so much fun.

I think Darcy would probably go insane. Or at least complain LOUDLY throughout... I don't think I could cope with that. :)

LOL yes, this pretty much sums up my feelings on End of Time. It's like RTD didn't even have a plot in mind, just went "Okay, I'm going to throw a bunch of shit at the screen and see what sticks, and then tie it all together with plot holes and grandiose ranting." There's plenty of good stuff in there! It just... none of it makes sense when you try to put it together, and the best plan is probably to down another glass of wine and stare at the pretty-pretty set/actor/angst/SFX porn on the screen.

Actually, last time I watched it I found that EoT makes perfect sense if you think of the whole thing as Ten's regeneration-sickness-induced fever dream: somewhere, somewhen, he tripped over a brick and hit his head and was so disappointed at his anticlimactic regeneration that he dreamed of an epic universe-imperilling death sequence where he is the most important person in the universe, his angst is so tragic and full of pathos look at all the burdens on his poor shoulders, he gets final confirmation that he was right to blow up the Time Lords, the Master is staring into his eyes and wibbling about their lost childhood on Gallifrey, and the whole thing works by dream logic.

It just... none of it makes sense when you try to put it together, and the best plan is probably to down another glass of wine and stare at the pretty-pretty set/actor/angst/SFX porn on the screen.
Mmmmmm. The original post had a nice chunk devoted to the delights of Doctor/Master.

Actually, last time I watched it I found that EoT makes perfect sense if you think of the whole thing as Ten's regeneration-sickness-induced fever dream
My actual, literal, reaction to reading that whole paragraph:

(Seriously. I gigglesnorted and then cracked up, and Darcy - who is sitting behind me - went 'What sort of noise was THAT?'

Actually, last time I watched it I found that EoT makes perfect sense if you think of the whole thing as Ten's regeneration-sickness-induced fever dream
O_O You are a genius.

I am rather in awe, and from now on will probably have to watch it like that... OMG! Remember that bit in The Hitchhiker's guide where Zaphod goes into a bubble universe and everything is about HIM??? This is obviously the Ten-version since everyone is all focussed on HIM, for no reason other than they are. (I'm thinking mostly of the ending here, and the Long Goodbye.)

Edited 2011-11-20 17:50 (UTC)

I don't, but then Hitchhiker's Guide was rather crammed full of randomness . . . you can only hold on to so much of it.

Although now I'm trying to decide what to make of Ten's me-centric hallucination involving octogenarian groupies who want to fondle his bum. That's one for the shrinks.

I don't, but then Hitchhiker's Guide was rather crammed full of randomness . . . you can only hold on to so much of it.
Very true. Not even Douglas Adams could keep it straight in his head.

Although now I'm trying to decide what to make of Ten's me-centric hallucination involving octogenarian groupies who want to fondle his bum. That's one for the shrinks.
Wishing for someone nearer his own age? (See, he subconsciously knew he needed River... Actually this could be a good game. One of my flisters used to play the 'Turn EVERYTHING on BtVS into Spuffy' - you could *totally* do the same with Doctor/River.)

. . . I'm not sure that's a game so much as How I Watch the Show.

Also, if that's the game, then we lost to Moffat.

. . . I'm not sure that's a game so much as How I Watch the Show.
Well, yes, obviously. I just call it a game, because otherwise people might tell me that I'm wrong in presuming that Everything Is About Spuffy (or Doctor/River) and start arguing.

Also, if that's the game, then we lost to Moffat.
LOL! <3 <3 <3

It was even more insane at the time because the BBC seemed to be working on the assumption that their problems would be forever solved if they just had DAVID TENNANT IN EVERYTHING THEY BROADCAST, EVER. Even I got sick of him!

LOL! (I didn't get sick of him. Well... I ADORED having him & Catherine Tate on stuff together. I could watch/listen to those two FOREVER! <3)

I HAD A POST ABOUT EoT AND LJ ATE IT!!!!
Even LJ has opinions on EoT.

Plus the plot makes even less sense than I remember. I mean... stuff just happens.
LOL! I think it's possible that EoT is one of my favorite Davies scripts because by then my brain had given up and stopped noticing these things for my own good.

Finally, then Darcy's reaction to "This song is ending. But the story never ends" never fails to entertain, because he physically recoils from the screen and flails as if to ward off great evil.
This is a reasonable reaction. I am feeling slightly twitchy just reading that line. There is nothing funny about any of this.

Anyway, then there is DARLING ELEVENTY and happiness and joy and Geronimoooo! <3
I love when he makes that thinking very hard face and looks like a character out of Wallace and Gromit.

Even LJ has opinions on EoT.
*eyes LJ suspiciously*

LOL! I think it's possible that EoT is one of my favorite Davies scripts because by then my brain had given up and stopped noticing these things for my own good.
I know Moffat is over-elaborate, but EoT... Stuff happens just because it happens. I mean, what's the deal with the Doctor's mother talking to Wilf? How does she do it? WHY? How do the Naismith's know about the Master returning? Why is Wilf the only one who can remember the dreams? Why does Rassilon narrate, and from what point in his personal timeline does he do so? I just... It's not MD levels of bad (the continuity is fine), it's just a lot of random stuff tied together. *shakes head and tells self to focus on the Doctor/Master* (Also the EPIC EPIC ANGST is sort of undercut by the fact that... he's not really DYING, y'know? He's going to be FINE. It's such a storm in a teacup. But then Ten always ate up ALL his drama-flakes.)

This is a reasonable reaction. I am feeling slightly twitchy just reading that line. There is nothing funny about any of this.
Oh come on. If actual angels had appeared at that point and helped the Doctor on his final STRUGGLING walk I wouldn't have been the least surprised. It's so OTT that it's almost collapsing from lack of oxygen.

I love when he makes that thinking very hard face and looks like a character out of Wallace and Gromit.
MORE CHEESE GROMIT?

I mean, what's the deal with the Doctor's mother talking to Wilf? How does she do it? WHY? How do the Naismith's know about the Master returning? Why is Wilf the only one who can remember the dreams? Why does Rassilon narrate, and from what point in his personal timeline does he do so? I just... It's not MD levels of bad (the continuity is fine), it's just a lot of random stuff tied together.
All excellent questions that I'm pretty sure have no answer. Actually, it might be fun to compare to that little Eleventy skit that the grade schoolers wrote. Which was similar in its making no sense but then also funny.

(Also the EPIC EPIC ANGST is sort of undercut by the fact that... he's not really DYING, y'know? He's going to be FINE. It's such a storm in a teacup. But then Ten always ate up ALL his drama-flakes.)
Still does not bother me as badly in EoT as it does elsewhere. Probably because you know it will stop soon.

If actual angels had appeared at that point and helped the Doctor on his final STRUGGLING walk I wouldn't have been the least surprised.
See, he wasted them on Voyage of the Damned.

MORE CHEESE GROMIT?
HE'S FORGOTTEN THE CRACKERS!

All excellent questions that I'm pretty sure have no answer.
Even Rusty, in one of the commentaries, talked about how Rassilon just stands there while Ten points his gun one way and the other. If he'd just killed him (what with having that nifty glove at his disposal), he could have won ten times over...

Actually, it might be fun to compare to that little Eleventy skit that the grade schoolers wrote. Which was similar in its making no sense but then also funny.
*snerk*

Still does not bother me as badly in EoT as it does elsewhere. Probably because you know it will stop soon.
Oh yes. And even at the time, when I was TERRIBLY SAD that Ten was leaving, I was hurrying him on, telling him to just get on with it and die already, because quite frankly I just wanted to put him out of his misery, y'know?

See, he wasted them on Voyage of the Damned.
Ah but they were rather brilliant there, carrying him up to heaven. I mean the bridge...

HE'S FORGOTTEN THE CRACKERS!
But does he LIKE crackers?

Even Rusty, in one of the commentaries, talked about how Rassilon just stands there while Ten points his gun one way and the other. If he'd just killed him (what with having that nifty glove at his disposal), he could have won ten times over...
Lol--and that is why I like Rusty. And, just as a rule of storytelling, the number one reason the good guys ever win is that their enemies are even bigger idiots than they are.

Oh yes. And even at the time, when I was TERRIBLY SAD that Ten was leaving, I was hurrying him on, telling him to just get on with it and die already, because quite frankly I just wanted to put him out of his misery, y'know?
Of course.

Actually, I put off watching EoT for months because I'd grown so sick of the season four/specials ~angst and every single thing I'd read on LJ was talking about how horrible EoT was. The actual episode proved kinda anti-climactic compared to fandom's take on it *g*

Ah but they were rather brilliant there, carrying him up to heaven. I mean the bridge...
I can't tell you how long I've been waiting for the perfect opportunity to use this:

unimpressed

But does he LIKE crackers?
WHO KNOWS! But he's forgotten something! Also, he does go to the moon later . . .

Lol--and that is why I like Rusty.
Same here. :)

And, just as a rule of storytelling, the number one reason the good guys ever win is that their enemies are even bigger idiots than they are.
Long live the idiots?

Actually, I put off watching EoT for months because I'd grown so sick of the season four/specials ~angst and every single thing I'd read on LJ was talking about how horrible EoT was. The actual episode proved kinda anti-climactic compared to fandom's take on it *g*
Heeeeee! And you see, this is why I'm so good at ignoring the anti-Moff brigade. I was very fond of EoT, yet I knew I was in a TINY minority. (I don't need stuff like plot or logic. Esp not with the heaps of shippiness around...)

I can't tell you how long I've been waiting for the perfect opportunity to use this:
It is certainly perfect. But what's it from?

WHO KNOWS! But he's forgotten something! Also, he does go to the moon later . . .
Someone should write a story where Eleven meets the mad robot fridge thing they find.

Long live the idiots?
: P

I was very fond of EoT, yet I knew I was in a TINY minority. (I don't need stuff like plot or logic. Esp not with the heaps of shippiness around...
Basically one of my favorite fannish rants ever (about the threatened death of one of my favorite characters ever) culminates with "Fuck story logic, I need Laura Roslin!" I had to agree. We were not disappointed on either count (though generally I held BSG to a higher standard than that /sheepish).

It is certainly perfect. But what's it from?
Lucille Bluth, from Arrested Development. Perfection in the form of drunken, self-absorbed contempt ; )

Someone should write a story where Eleven meets the mad robot fridge thing they find.
=DDDD <3 <3 Although perhaps something not easily conveyed just in writing?

Basically one of my favorite fannish rants ever (about the threatened death of one of my favorite characters ever) culminates with "Fuck story logic, I need Laura Roslin!" I had to agree. We were not disappointed on either count (though generally I held BSG to a higher standard than that /sheepish).
Oh I know how you feel. I'd give... ANYTHING to get Ianto back. Even though all logic and story-truth tells me that he ought to stay dead... If RTD decided to resurrect him I'd be dancing with joy and never recover. Fuck Story Logic indeed. (To me, Ianto WAS Torchwood. So when he died, the show died too...)

Lucille Bluth, from Arrested Development. Perfection in the form of drunken, self-absorbed contempt ; )
Ah, that'd be why I recognised her. I've watched the odd bit, just enough to know the very, very basics.

=DDDD <3 <3 Although perhaps something not easily conveyed just in writing?
Probably not...

Edited 2011-11-21 21:22 (UTC)

Fuck Story Logic indeed. (To me, Ianto WAS Torchwood. So when he died, the show died too...)
Well, if it's any consolation, by the end of BSG I found myself wishing that Roslin had died earlier and thus been saved what she and the show both became. Which, I seem to recall you expressing something similar w/r/t MD.

Oh yes, I hear you. Although part of Ianto's role was how he was pretty much the only who could get Jack to talk about stuff, so without him there Jack had no one to confide in, and thus he was even more distant... So it was self-perpetuating?

Yes! There should have been angels so he could be more Hamlet than Hamlet! And his mother should have taken poison and fallen down dead right there for those of us who didn't get the point first time around.

I remember particularly disliking the embarrassing, gratuitous Obama references, too.

*giggles* It's the fact that it's all played completely straight that gets me. Although there is something hugely compelling about it. I mean, if you looked up 'man!pain' in the dictionary there'd have to be a picture of Ten there, because he just went above and beyond... TRULY NO ONE HAS EVER SUFFERED HOW HE SUFFERED! (He was young, bless.)

Did you see these two images that I made for another bit of meta btw? ;)

*snaps fingers* That's what Vale Decem reminds me of! Once upon a time in choir I got to sing Tomas Luis de Victoria's setting of 'O Vos Omnes,' which is gorgeous and murderously difficult and for some reason Vale Decem brings back memories of it, especially (by utter musical coincidence, I swear) the middle section that goes "Peoples of the earth, attend and see if there be any sorrow like unto my sorrow."

...I would probably go to hell if I fanvidded Ten's man!pain to Renaissance sacred music, wouldn't I?

(Edited because I cannot remember names, ever.)

Edited 2011-11-22 23:04 (UTC)

*snaps fingers* That's what Vale Decem reminds me of!
Yay, I am happy to have helped. (However coincidentally.)

...I would probably go to hell if I fanvidded Ten's man!pain to Renaissance sacred music, wouldn't I?
Weeelll... I'm pretty sure God has a brilliant sense of humour (and I say that as a Catholic!), but his followers tend to be more unforgiving. However, it wouldn't be the first time (not QUITE what you're proposing, but on the same theme):

Agnus Dei by

hollywoodgrrl.

(Adore this vid btw.)

ETA: For a truly mind-bending experience, however, you should then immediately watch Eleven is Cool. ;)

Edited 2011-11-23 08:39 (UTC)

I love both Ten and EoT, but you may have a point about needing Spike around to puncture the drama a hair.

Oh I love both to PIECES (as well you know), but I suddenly remembered Numbero Cinquo (I think that's the one) and Spike declaring Angel to be a Drama Queen, and well... *g* Also, I can never watch Ten during his goodbye tour without thinking about

yhlee and her description of Wes:

"I can't believe I forgot how Denisof as Wesley can stand there and exude pain. It's like a superpower."

If Ten had a superpower (other than his Timelord-y-ness) it would be Silently Angsting.

I hadn't seen that quote, but LOL! So true! And I'm a huge Wes fan...

And now I'm busy trying to make whoniverse/ buffyverse parallels.

Oh there are ENDLESS parallels. I have a whole post planned about River/Spike parallels...

And the more I think about it, the Master kind of does fill that role. Only turned up to 11...

Oh absolutely. But he's sort of too busy/preoccupied in EoT to do it properly.

I do not know enough to contribute constructively to this conversation since I have not seen the episode. However after reading the comments, I feel that at some point in Eleven's future the Master has to show up so that he and River can argue over who is the better wife/evil boyfriend. Bonus points if at some point they ride a vespa.

I probably need more coffee.

However after reading the comments, I feel that at some point in Eleven's future the Master has to show up so that he and River can argue over who is the better wife/evil boyfriend.
I... might have a fic like that sat in a folder, still in need of a fair bit of editing. *cough*

I completely agree. Ten was painfully emo kid. I love Eleven for how different he is.

Well, we were all young once, and did stupid things... *g*

(This is one of the reasons I love River so much. Ten - and early Eleven - is pretty much the teenage version of her husband, and she treats him as such. <3)

*grins* "Dear god you're hard work young!" ♥ Riverrrrrrrrrrrr.

RIVER! RIVER! RIVER! RIVER! RIVER! RIVER! RIVER! RIVER! RIVER! <3

Also, it makes his emo-ness a lot easier to cope with. I mean - I was always very fond of him, but compared to Eleven... (Not to mention Seven! But I tend not to compare Ten and Seven because it's so unfair.) Um, what was I saying? Oh yes, Ten is all emo and into Twilight (star crossed lovers - it totally speaks to him! *g*) and ranting that life isn't FAIR, but he grows up to be a rather decent sort, you know? So I can smile indulgently at the young one, and pet his poor little emo head.

Okay...I totally adored this!! OMG...I cackled so freaking hard I think I hurt myself. First of all - brilliant commentary on EoT and I just wanna smish Darcy to pieces, lol!!

10littlebullets deserves an award. One that has chocolate. And omg the rest of the comments here!! Think I wrenched something...this was just utterly brilliant!!

*SQUISHES*

*beams* Thought it might go down well... And then I remembered another time I re-watched EoT and went to hunt down THAT post: More... *intensity*! That one has a mini fic & awesomeness from my girls. And THEN I found the post where Miss M illustrated the fic thing. (It's not a fic, really, it's barely above drabble length. But. If you can cope with more daftness from yours truly, it's there.)

Oh EoT, how much do I love thee, let me count the ways... (It's the gift that never stops giving!)

Dammit...it will not let me see the illustrated fic thing!! Arrghhhh...

Right?! LOL!!

Well that would be because I GAVE YOU THE WRONG LINK! *headdesk forever*

Here you are: http://elisi.livejournal.com/652760.html

YAY!! *RUNS* *SNEAKS BACK TO DROP A PILLOW BELOW YOUR FACE*

Don't want you to bruise, bb...

Ohhh! And Icon!Love, lol!!

Ummmm...KlahtuVerataNic*coughgrumblecoughcough*tteehhllla...

Aw, thanks! <3

(Icon is AWESOME. Well, anything with Eleven AND Monty Python would be...)

And I'm rather flummoxed by that last line. Splainy?

Right?! Someone needs to write an Eleven meets Monty Python fic. OMG, that would be Epic!!

Sorry, sorry...I love this movie called 'Army of Darkness' and it is a total spoof on Arthurian Legends and the movie it spun off of Evil Dead. Bruce Campbell is my B-movie hero, lol!! Anyway, anyway, he had to memorize a line (and then ride for two days and nights) to get a particular book from a cemetery. He has to say the words EXACTLY before picking up the book and he can't remember the last word to save his life! Mayhem ensues of course. And dammit, I have no more Army icons!! Funny shtuff, bb...funny, crude, sexist and fun!

Well there's an AWESOME Ten + Blackadder one... (Which kinda inspired this icon.) So I am sure that Eleven + Monty Python MUST exist.

And thanks for the explanation - it sounds awesome. :)

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