elisi: Clara asking the Doctor to take her back to 2012 (The Doctor dances by llorona_llorona)
elisi ([personal profile] elisi) wrote2011-09-12 10:18 am
Entry tags:

Fic: Calling the TARDIS (or: And Marilyn Makes Three)

Title: Calling the TARDIS (or: And Marilyn Makes Three)
Setting: S6, sometime post LKH.
Summary (this part): TenToo and Rose call the TARDIS.
Characters (this part): TenToo, Rose, Eleven, River.
Spoilers: LKH
Rating: PG-13.
Word count: 3300 words.
Feedback: Puh-leeese?
Author’s Notes: Um, this is - quite literally - fluffy, angsty crack (no really). However there will be a happy ending, so don’t worry too much about the angst. It’s just that the story/themes of the season can’t help bleeding through... (There'll probably only be two parts, and yes, Eleven is being a jerk for most of this. That's deliberate.)


Calling the TARDIS (or: And Marilyn Makes Three)

Part 1

“Doctor...”

“It’s going to work! Just... watch me!”

A brief pause as she obviously tried very hard not to mention that he’d been working on this for a week and that so far all he’d done was create several ugly marks on the walls and ceiling of his ‘study’ when things had exploded a little bit. He took a deep breath.

“Just because it hasn’t worked until now doesn’t mean that I can’t still make it work. And I need to!”

He could almost feel her unspoken arguments, which was a bit disheartening, but what she said was:

“Well, give me a shout when you’re done. Or, just come to bed, yeah? I’m sure you’ll work it out tomorrow...”

Which was what she’d said every day for the past week, ever since... Ever since it had become vitally important to try to contact his other self. Good old Rose though - she’d keep the flag flying, even if everyone else gave up.

And then suddenly the unit sprang to life.

“Rose! Rose! Look! What did I say?”

She turned in the bedroom door and ran back to him, throwing her arms around his shoulders and kissing him soundly.

“Well done you!”

“Now all I need is to lock onto the TARDIS somehow, which...” He dragged a hand through his hair, “...might be tricky.”

Gently she turned his face towards her.

“One hour. And then bed. Deal?”

He dipped his head. Stupid human body which needed so much sleep...

“Deal.”

Finding a route to the TARDIS proved much, much easier than he’d expected however...

*

Heart beating (and he still wasn’t used to the singular), he pressed the button that should hopefully make the vid-link work across dimensions.

For a long while there was only static, but then (he hardly dared believe it - although... he was brilliant!) the screen flickered, and after a moment’s fuzziness a face appeared.

It was a young face, with a floppy fringe on top and a bowtie below, which looked at him with surprise writ large on its face.

“Hello,” the young man said, blinking. “Well this is unexpected.”

The Doctor pulled an apologetic face.

“Sorry. Didn’t mean to jump on you like that. Is... the Doctor around?”

Instead of answering the youngster started giggling, and the Doctor tried not to think of how much bone-wearying work had gone into creating the machine, just to be greeted with a new companion who was clearly an idiot.

Rose leaned forward and into view.

“Um, is everything OK?”

The bowtie took one look at her and sobered up immediately.

“Rose,” he said softly. “Hello. Long time no see.”

The Doctor’s mind did a back flip, and then landed again, seeing with new eyes.

“You... regenerated.”

“Oh yes,” bowtie!Doctor said, with immense satisfaction, and then his face split in a wide grin, pointing at the screen.

“Hang on, don’t go anywhere.”

He leaned around the monitor, so all they could see was a jacket-front (tweed - plus a white checkered shirt and were those braces?), and yelled “RIVER!” at the top of his voice, causing a sudden chill to enter the Doctor.

“She’s a terrible sleepyhead,” bowtie!Doctor said, returning to watch them happily, and the Doctor tried not to let his deep discomfort show. It was partly an instinctive reaction against seeing the future (although it wasn’t his future, but still). And partly the name River...

“Um listen, I need to talk to you. It’s... important. You see-”

Bowtie!Doctor frowned, and held up a finger.

“Wait - River! - Maybe I should ring the cloister bell... That ought to get her out of bed.”

“I need to warn you-” the Doctor started, but bowtie!Doctor laughed and a second later River Song herself appeared on the monitor, hair like a curly halo around her head, and a slinky, figure-hugging (there were no other words for it) silk kimono wrapped around her. (Was she naked under there? 51st Century attitudes. Yes that was it.)

“Look!” Bowtie!Doctor said and River blinked sleepily, before her eyes suddenly widened.

“Is that-”

Bowtie!Doctor nodded, grinning like a loon.

“Human-metacrisis-me from Pete’s World and-”

“Rose!” River exclaimed, clapping her hands together and looking like all her birthdays had come at once, before leaning forward.

“Hello Rose!” she cooed, “Oh this wonderful!”

Rose was looking rather adorably befuddled by now, and the Doctor wasn’t sure what to tell her. Every feeling he had regarding River was complicated and filled with guilt, and this happy River was miles and miles from the woman he had met...

She turned to bowtie!Doctor. “I used to play fairy godmother, you know... bring her little presents-”

“I got her a bike!” bowtie!Doctor said defensively, and River shook her head dismissively.

I brought her girl-y presents! Like a make up set and a book about boys and-”

Rose was staring at the monitor, jaw dropping.

“That was you? But- but-” she looked from the Doctor and back to River again.

“But who are you?”

River’s face was suddenly that mixture of hurt and disbelief that the Doctor remembered far too well as she turned to him - and it was still horribly unpleasant. Like he was doing something wrong just by existing.

”You never told her about me?”

At this bowtie!Doctor stepped behind her, wrapping his arms around River’s middle and leaning his chin on her shoulder.

“That, My Love, is because he doesn’t know who you are.”

“Well... who is she then?” the Doctor asked, a little curtly (‘My Love’? My Love? Inside parts of him were turning to ashes), and bowtie!Doctor tightened his hold.

“Mine,” he answered, with great finality. “All mine.”

The Doctor sighed, shooting Rose an apologetic look. “Her name is River Song. I... don’t know much.”

River turned a shrewd eye on bowtie!Doctor.

“Yours? More like the other way round, Sweetie. Anyway, I was talking to Rose.”

“So you were. Why so keen?”

“Well it’s not every day I get to compare notes with someone else who married you. Other than Marilyn of course... Oh that reminds me-”

Rose cut through her prattle, and the look on her face was one the Doctor knew he’d spend many days arguing with.

“You’re married?”

“Of course we’re married,” bowtie!Doctor said with great dignity. “As a matter of fact we’re on our honeymoon.”

River shook her head, smiling.

“I should have been back in prison weeks ago, but he keeps saying just one more trip, bless him.”

“But you are in prison, dear. Police Box, remember?”

The Doctor stared, laying a hand on Rose’s arm to stop her asking. This was his question:

“You’re in prison?”

Bowtie!Doctor beamed, like this wasn’t world altering news.

“Oh yes, she’s in Stormcage.”

“Stormcage?”

He felt like a parrot.

“What’s Stormcage?” Rose asked, confused.

“One of the highest security facilities in the universe. The worst of the worst...” the Doctor explained, grim faced.

Bowtie!Doctor smiled proudly, nuzzling River’s ear.

“My bad, bad girl... I think you’ve actually impressed him.”

The Doctor was sorely tempted to just quit the conversation, and he could see that Rose was feeling even more uncomfortable than himself. Whoever could have guessed that River was a- a criminal? He’d often wondered about how his other self had been getting on, but... this? And, apparently, being proud of it? Although... He shook his head.

Nevermind - better get back to the reason he was calling in the first place.

“Right. Just... listen. I called to warn you. About a week ago... something fell into our world.”

Bowtie!Doctor was paying attention now.

“Yes?”

“It was...” the Doctor paused for maximum effect, “a Dalek.”

Zero reaction. After a moment bowtie!Doctor leaned forward, prompting.

“And...”

“A new Dalek. Not one of those we fought in the Medusa cascade, but a newer, bigger breed.”

Bowtie!Doctor however just nodded.

“Well it would be one of them. I was there when- nevermind. They’re out there. I’m presuming that’s not all you wanted to tell me...”

The Doctor tried to stomp down on his disappointment, and shook his head gravely.

“Oh no. It tried to self-destruct, but since it was quite damaged it failed. I looked through the databanks and...”

The knowledge still made him pale.

“They were forging an Alliance against you, and they’re building-”

He didn’t get further as bowtie!Doctor yelped “Spoilers!” and threw his hands over River’s ears.

“Do you want to jeopardise the whole universe?” he asked crossly, and the Doctor closed his mouth angrily. Here he was, doing the impossible and calling across dimensions, a little bit of gratitude would have been nice...

Gingerly, and still scowling at the monitor, bowtie!Doctor removed his hands and unwrapped River from his arms, turning her towards him.

“You’ve not done the Pandorica yet, have you?”

She laughed.

“The Pandorica? That’s a fairy tale.”

Bowtie!Doctor smiled softly.

“Oh River, aren’t we all.”

Then he looked at the screen again, wagging a finger.

“Careless talk costs lives.”

The Doctor pressed his lips togther tightly. Was this how his original self lived now? Forever watching every word and married to... Well goodness knew what River had done, but no one was put in Stormcage for less than murder. He certainly wasn’t going to worry about him anymore. Although, although... He frowned. There was something... off. Something he couldn’t quite put his finger on, something hiding behind bowtie!Doctor’s too-ready smile...

“Um, sorry...” Rose said, smiling nervously. “You mentioned being married... to a Marilyn. Do you mean Marilyn Monroe?”

Bowtie!Doctor looked a bit uncomfortable, clearing his throat.

“Well there was an, uh, incident, and well, sometimes you’ve just got to go with it...”

River bit her lip, reaching up and adjusting his bowtie.

“You know Sweetie, I was thinking... Since it’s our honeymoon, we could... ask Marilyn along? You know, show her the universe, get a threeway marriage license for the weekend? Pretty please?”

She did the exact same same puppy dog eyes that Rose had always done, before brightly adding: “It’d be like a honeymoon inside a honeymoon! And...” her smile turned positively wicked, “I’m pretty sure that the reason she got the marriage annulled so easily is because it wasn’t... consummated. Seems a perfect waste to me!”

Bowtie!Doctor looked distinctly flustered.

“Well I- I don’t-”

”Yes you do,” River said, with great finality. “Go on... She was my first proper crush.”

Her face turned softer, eyes drifting past him.

“I can’t remember much from back then, but sometimes I was allowed to watch movies, and ‘Some Like It Hot’ is seared in my memory forever more...”

A wistful sigh. “Those shoes, the way she walked, the dresses, her hair... The first time I regenerated I was praying so hard for platinum curls...”

Bowtie!Doctor was watching her, caught between concern and delight, even as the Doctor could feel his chest constricting and there was a strange whooshing sound in his ears...

(The first time I regenerated - The first time I regenerated - The first time I regenerated - ... It couldn’t be. Couldn’t. Not possible. He would have known. And she’d come across as human...)

“That... explains a lot, actually,” bowtie!Doctor said, before frowning. “Although if you were aiming for Marilyn looks-wise, you sorta missed... Not that you weren’t lovely...”

River laughed.

“Oh I was so tiny, I’m surprised I didn’t end up as a boy...” She raised an eyebrow, smirking. “Which would have been... interesting, dearest.”

“Been there, done that,” bowtie!Doctor shrugged, “Although he was less... efficient than you - my bespoke killer...”

The sentence ended in what could best be described as a purr, and the subject matter apart it could have been any deeply besotted newly wed husband complimenting his wife.

None of this really registered with the Doctor however, except superficially (was bowtie!Doctor really comparing River and the Master? Really?), as he finally found his voice.

“But that’s - that’s impossible, she- How - what-”

Bowtie!Doctor smiled gently.

“Child of the TARDIS. And... more besides. Human Plus. It’s...” he shook his head, “...a long story. A very, very long story, and the ending...” A swift darkness in his eyes, so quickly gone that the Doctor almost thought that he’d imagined it. “Like I said, she’s mine.”

River rolled her eyes.

”Sweetie, he’s a whole universe away, plus he’s married himself! He’s not likely to come steal me away.”

“I guess not,” bowtie!Doctor conceded. “Plus, he’s only human...”

“Doctor!” River gasped, mock slapping his arm. “That’s terrible! And anyway you seem to have forgotten... We were talking about marrying Marilyn Monroe.”

Rose mouthed ‘Are you sure it’s actually him?’ and the Doctor nodded and pulled a face. Now was not the time to go into how... eccentric some of his regenerations turned out.

Bowtie!Doctor - thankfully oblivious to anything that wasn’t right in front of his nose - shook his head.

“Will I ever be able to deny you anything, River Song?”

She raised an eyebrow.

”Well considering that I’m stronger, faster, and smarter than you, there is the fact that if you say no I’ll just do it anyway!”

“That’s not quite how I was going to put it,” bowtie!Doctor said, and River tilted her head.

“Plus I’m the one with the gun.”

He shot her a serious look.

“I was going to say that I am trying to make up for... everything.”

A quiet smile as he cupped her face gently, “...and I probably always will be.”

River’s features softened.

“Sweetie. I couldn’t ask for more.”

They’d been watching silently, but at this Rose spluttered, although thankfully managed to mostly hide it behind her hand.

“They’re kinda... lovely-dovey, aren’t they?” she said, sotto voce, and the Doctor nodded.

Clearing his throat very loudly he managed to cut through the moon eyes.

“Sorry to disturb your special little moment, but we only have a few minutes left before I have to close the link. Which, by the way, I found up and running already. Just thought you might like to know that. Don’t know why someone would want a link to the TARDIS at all times, but you seem to know what’s going on, so Rose and I will say our goodbyes...”

Bowtie!Doctor’s face fell a little.

“The link... yes. I’m afraid that was necessary. Like I said, long story...”

River put a hand on his arm.

“Look, I’ll let you say goodbye in peace. Also, I need to work out what to wear for Marilyn...”

She kissed bowtie!Doctor gently on the cheek and did a little wave to the screen.

“Goodbye you two. It was marvellous to see you, and Rose - I had all kinds of things I was going to tell you, but nevermind. Just look after him, OK?”

With that she turned and walked out of view; but as her footsteps faded bowtie!Doctor’s face changed, watching them with a sudden intensity.

“Um, thank you for going to...” he waved a hand around, “all the bother of calling. You shouldn’t have. No really.”

A sudden dark, bitter smile, and it was as if he abruptly aged several centuries in the span of a split second. In the Library the Doctor had scoffed at River’s assertion that he’d been young, but now... Heavens above, what had happened to his other self?

“Trust me, there is nothing you can do for me. Well except for... just be happy. Can you promise me that?”

The quiet pleading in his voice was lightyears away from the rather frivolous dismissiveness which had pervaded the conversation until now, and the faint alarm bells that had previously rung in the Doctor’s head were now almost deafening, as bowtie!Doctor busied himself with typing something or other.

“Of course,” the Doctor replied carefully. They had mere moments left, how could he get to the truth...

“Good!” The smile was back now. “And here I am, breaking Rule 27. Well, I’m breaking rules all over the place, what’s one more? Anyway, I should probably go dig out my top hat again. Weddings, eh?”

He leaned towards the screen, lowering his voice down to almost a whisper.

“Really, I only go for the dancing, and Marilyn... Well she certainly knows how to dance!”

He winked, in a manner which abruptly reminded the Doctor of Reinette and dancing and all kinds of things that he could never tell Rose... And then the screen went fuzzy as the connection was severed.

The Doctor stared at the dancing dots, and after a moment Rose slowly asked: “What... what rules? What was he talking about?”

Trust Rose to notice...

“Rule 27: Never knowingly be serious,” the Doctor replied abstractedly. Now he’d never know. Even if he could get the connection back up, bowtie!Doctor was not going to share. I shouldn’t make him feel quite so bitter... But what had he meant ‘breaking rules all over the place’? Something was very, very wrong...

“O... kay...” Rose said. “So... what kind of rules are they?”

He blinked and tried to focus.

“What? They’re my rules. Weeeell they’re more like guidelines, I suppose. I made them up.”

A frown.

“You what?”

“Made up rules. For myself. I have... hundreds, really.”

Rose was now studying him with that unnerving look, the one where he felt that she was silently berating him for something, and he couldn’t work out what it might be. It happened less now, but...

“You have hundreds of rules? About what? Why’d you never tell me?”

Oh that was accusation, that was. He stared at her flummoxed, the main part of his brain still trying to puzzle out what was wrong with bowtie!Doctor, and the rest scrambling to work out what to say to Rose.

“I... dunno. There’s a lot of stuff in my head, didn’t occur to me that you’d want to know. It’s a bit like... temporal gravity fluxes. You don’t want to hear about them, do you?”

And there came the hurt look. But really, she’d want to start with Rule 1, and then where would he be? He could lie about it, he supposed, which would be nicely ironic...

Sighing he reached out and cut off the static snowstorm, but then - as he was about to switch off the whole unit - noticed a new symbol on the screen; the swirly Gallifreyan writing making his heart hurt with longing.

“Rule 7,” he said softly, “He must have sent it...”

Hands almost shaking he carefully tapped the keyboard, and the screencapture unfurled.

To the right was a picture of bowtie!Doctor and on the left...

“The Doctor”, Rose slowly read out loud, “Death Date: 22/04/2011, Time: 5:02pm, Location...”

Her voice trailed off, horrified, but the Doctor wasn’t paying attention.

Everything was suddenly slotting into place, the whole situation crystal clear and oh, it all made sense... A terrible, awful sense.

(’Trust me, there is nothing you can do for me...’)

Reaching out he pulled Rose towards him, holding her so tight that she began complaining and wriggling out of his grasp, and he had to turn to her as she repeated his name.

Doctor! What was it you said? Rule 7? What is it?”

He watched her for a long moment, then turned and looked at the screen, and the numbers on it. Date, time, place...

“Never run when you’re scared.”


Part 2.
independence1776: Drawing of Maglor with a harp on right, words "sing of honor lost" and "Noldolantë" on the left and bottom, respectively (Team TARDIS)

[personal profile] independence1776 2011-09-12 12:51 pm (UTC)(link)
This is a good hurt, because it packs so much of a punch. And yet, I just want to gather them all into a hug.

[identity profile] kitmarlowescot2.livejournal.com 2011-09-12 01:10 pm (UTC)(link)
Doctorhuman and Rose must really be thinking what the heck bowtie Doctor has been smoking :)
I am surprised River didn't suggest a foursome with Rose and humanDoctor.
ext_15862: (Default)

[identity profile] watervole.livejournal.com 2011-09-12 02:58 pm (UTC)(link)
I like this a lot. The dialogue works for me, and that's the thing that will throw me out fastest if it's wrong.

I can totally see River as bi.
ext_15862: (Default)

[identity profile] watervole.livejournal.com 2011-09-12 03:59 pm (UTC)(link)
I think River would be faithful if married (though potentially poly if said husband is okay with it)
promethia_tenk: (shippy)

[personal profile] promethia_tenk 2011-09-13 01:55 am (UTC)(link)
I think River would be faithful if married
I've given up trying to convince her of this. But this does not stop me from taking a certain vengeful pleasure when other people bring it up ; )
promethia_tenk: (shippy)

[personal profile] promethia_tenk 2011-09-13 03:30 pm (UTC)(link)
Can a person say they've really been to college without going through an artificial humanoid experimental phase? How else do you learn how to keep a doppleganger three-way from ending in an unfortunate pile of Flesh goo?

I've worked out the precise point I'm trying to make and am busy translating it into your own language for maximum clarity (pictures and Buffy comparisons).

[identity profile] sahiya.livejournal.com 2011-09-15 12:25 am (UTC)(link)
Why do we have to impose 21st century values onto her? It seems she's spent most of her time in the 51st century (excepting a second childhood as Amy and Rory's friend). Who knows if the concept of being "faithful" (as we understand it, i.e. a monogamous relationship to the exclusion of all others) will even exist in three thousand years?

River is whatever she wants to be, and I'm completely certain that whatever she and the Doctor have, she has plenty of other important relationships too. I actually think it would be rather horrible to be in their sort of situation and try and be "faithful"; she never knows when she'll see the Doctor again, or where he'll be in his timeline when she does see him. For her sake, I hope she isn't faithful.

P.S. Loved the fic, [livejournal.com profile] elisi, I just saw this comment and had to spout off!
Edited 2011-09-15 00:26 (UTC)
promethia_tenk: (kiss kiss bang bang)

[personal profile] promethia_tenk 2011-09-15 01:36 am (UTC)(link)
This is something of an iceberg topic for me (ie: the bit you can see isn't actually the important part.) Elisi and I continued the conversation elsewhere, and my concern really isn't so much anybody's morals as it is an observation about a key difference in how River and Jack handle themselves. I'll quote myself:

Jack, for all his wild child posturing, has something extremely *civilized* about him: so open and cosmopolitain and yet very, very *controlled*. He's so exceedingly careful about who he actually lets in and just how far. River, though, she's got something of Spike's [of BtVS] primitive emotional profligacy: that slightly unhinged, all-or-nothing quality tinged with violence and obsession. Bounteous and raw. I just have an extremely hard time reconciling the idea of that way of loving with a lot of casual partners on the side: it seems a recipe for disaster (and here we are back at chaos and control). The sort of balance Jack has takes, I think, a sort of internal control that River has never really been shown to have.

And that's my point. And it's hardly like Moff's gonna hammer out a lot of details on a family show--everything runs on insinuation and everybody's free to think what they will. But I think the Jack comparison is . . . actually rather imprecise.


To which I'll add that we are dealing with a huge number of unknowns: things like how old River actually is, how often she and the Doctor do see each other . . . how many different timelines she's had and under what circumstances (suspecting timey-wimey shenanigans in the finale again, frankly). But it's something of an enduring fandom peeve of mine, the extent to which people will take the River=Jack comparison and run with it, in the process I think trampling over a lot of the characterization we've seen on screen.

[identity profile] sahiya.livejournal.com 2011-09-15 05:08 am (UTC)(link)
Hmm! That's very interesting. For the record, I wasn't necessarily trying to say River = Jack - just that three thousand years in the future, I don't imagine that our sexual mores will be any more relevant than ancient Greek sexual mores are now.

I think I understand what you're saying (and I'm aware that I didn't get the whole conversation - I'd like a link, actually, if it isn't behind a friends lock) better, but I also think that the older River we've seen - the one in the Angel episodes and, especially, the one in the Library episodes (who, I am increasingly convinced, is at least several hundred years old and well on from the River we meet at the crash of Byzantium) do seem to have that internal control you speak of. There is very little hint, if any, in the River of "Silence in the Library" of the River we see in "Let's Kill Hitler"; we don't know very much yet about her development, but it seems plausible to me that while what you say is true for a younger River (who is well and truly obsessed with the Doctor), older River has settled enough to have the control necessary for other relationships. The River of the Library episodes clearly has her own day-to-day life, with an interesting career and a place to call home. That home may include any number of linear lovers, and I doubt that she thinks of having them as being unfaithful to the Doctor.

The Doctor, on the other hand, seems very sexually conservative. Whether that's because humans are a different species and chemically (if not physically) incompatible as sexual partners or because he has a rule against sleeping with companions or for some other reason, he never really seemed to look at anyone that way before River, and Ten was clearly rather horrified by the idea. My guess is that River is it for him. I'm sure he knows, however, that she has other lovers (though I doubt they ever talk about it - he'd know, but I doubt he'd want to know, if you catch my drift).

Anyway, that's my headcanon. But thank you - that was interesting food for thought, especially with regards to younger River.
promethia_tenk: (shippy)

[personal profile] promethia_tenk 2011-09-15 05:59 pm (UTC)(link)
I think your whole first paragraph is, near as makes no difference, my position on the matter. And I can't really see my way to deciding anything more specific than that, unless the show suddenly decides to be a lot more explicit. Which, admittedly, given the writer, we probably shouldn't entirely rule out . . .

The Doctor strikes me as someone who may not be ruled by sex, but perhaps winds up in "accidents" slightly more often than he would be comfortable admitting.

Although, on the subject of the credibility of Moff statements in interviews and such, I remember reading some old stuff from him the other day where he was shying away from the dancing metaphor and suggesting that Ten/Reinette had not actually gone through, which had me staring at the text in incredulity going "did you watch the episode there, buddy?" Basically, I think he likes maintaining ambiguity and suggestiveness, and if somebody comes in strongly from one side, he'll take up the other, just to keep the possibilities in play.

[identity profile] sahiya.livejournal.com 2011-09-15 06:23 pm (UTC)(link)
Basically, I think he likes maintaining ambiguity and suggestiveness, and if somebody comes in strongly from one side, he'll take up the other, just to keep the possibilities in play.

Also, because he's a troll. *g*
promethia_tenk: (eleven amy rory)

[personal profile] promethia_tenk 2011-09-15 07:18 pm (UTC)(link)
And that!

[identity profile] sahiya.livejournal.com 2011-09-15 06:28 pm (UTC)(link)
Hmm! River-Spike is an interesting comparison, and one that can see as plausible for a younger River - one who is in the midst of her affair with the Doctor, perhaps. But the one we meet in the Library, who has clearly made her peace with her and the Doctor's situation - I don't know. She's just so different from the one we're meeting now, and if what the show has implied is true, she's had hundreds of years to change. So for me, it's completely plausible that she starts out like Spike and eventually ends up more like Jack. I think she'd have to, in order to deal with the reality of the Doctor's situation; trying to remain exclusive under those circumstances would be both futile and heartbreaking.

I agree with you about Reinette and Marilyn, regardless of what the Moff says. Rule #1 applies to him as well, as he's very openly stated!
promethia_tenk: (river)

[personal profile] promethia_tenk 2011-09-15 07:13 pm (UTC)(link)
The next line in the commentary that elisi quoted up there is actually a slightly aggravated Moff going "Let's leave Captain Jack's brush out of this! *g* So, yes, sorry for swerving away from your point (and I very much agree with you about evolving sexual mores). I think for me it's a very interesting intersection of cultural norms and character (since nobody is shaped entirely by one or the other). Fandom at large, I feel, is rather guilty of "tarring her with Captain Jack's brush," not in the sense of passing judgment, but of pretty indiscriminately transferring everything they like to think about Jack onto her, and I find myself having to rather deliberately consider Jack and what he's like in my own thoughts to try to work out what assumptions are coming from where.

I have to agree with you that the River in the Library episodes seems to have a level of maturity well beyond the earlier Rivers we've seen (and I hope/want to agree with you about her being much farther down her timeline than Byzantium River and having a more established independent life). I think for me the thing about all the River episodes we've seen so far is that we've been treated to a rather extended tour of all her raw emotional edges: in the early episodes because the Doctor doesn't know/care not to poke at them, and in the later episodes because they're, well, raw. My take away from all that is that the Doctor is and remains her big weak point, and I think the question of how (and how well) she manages that is a pretty open one. I'd rather like to see an episode where she's not in an ongoing state of distress over him, just so we could have a better idea of normal for her . . .

Thanks for sharing your thoughts as well--it's helping me sort out all my own assumptions, and I like hearing where other people are coming from on this.

[identity profile] bendingwind.livejournal.com 2011-09-12 03:16 pm (UTC)(link)
I really like this, in the sort of, hehe this was amusing with a lovely dark edge and can I please have more now, sort of way. :D

[identity profile] fangfaceandrea.livejournal.com 2011-09-12 04:11 pm (UTC)(link)

Heee, I love Eleven's attitude towards River, he' totally besotted :) and human Ten was adorable trying to get what's going on.

kathyh: (Kathyh DW River)

[personal profile] kathyh 2011-09-12 05:25 pm (UTC)(link)
Great dialogue and I loved the mix of the silly and the serious :)

[identity profile] rothas-writing.livejournal.com 2011-09-12 06:42 pm (UTC)(link)
ddfgnhjgfbxvcx - wow. Crack, but serious, and - and - and ... can I have more please?
promethia_tenk: (shippy)

[personal profile] promethia_tenk 2011-09-13 01:58 am (UTC)(link)
Nice edits! Will be quite interested to see what you're planning to do with the Marilyn thing and how this is all going to cohere <3

[identity profile] ogew.livejournal.com 2011-09-14 02:52 am (UTC)(link)
This was a great deal of fun, will it be continuing or does it end here?

[identity profile] cinderbella333.livejournal.com 2011-10-04 05:30 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh, I just LOVED THIS! All of it! You brilliant person, you! I am memming it. And going on to part two.