Finally listened to the last TW radio play.

[elisi]

You know that thing Joss said about giving people 'what they need, not what they want?'

Well fuck that. Because what people want IS WHAT THEY NEED!

At some point I'll write something more, but at the moment I'm just a bit of a mess - so for now, I just wanted to say that I love Rusty (or whoever planned out these radio plays) for not being Joss, and (belatedly) giving people some GODDAMN CLOSURE!

And how. *chokes up again*

See you all later.

Comments

[spikewriter]

I agree somewhat with Joss - what your audience needs is being true to your story and not wrenching it into shapes it's not supposed to go just because someone else said so. Having said that...

As much as I enjoy much of Joss' work, I don't think he was true to his story. I think he let it be other people's story (Noxon, Fury) and tried to pull it back to his story from time to time, which meant you end up with a bit of a mess.

RTD's stories are RTD's stories, even if someone else is doing that particular script. I was upset with Ianto dying in CoE because that's what I was supposed to be; I cared for the character and it made the sense of loss very personal. I also think Rusty was playing with the fact there's after media for TW and DW -- he knew he could give the fans some closure at some point. It'd either be a tie-in novel or a project like this.

In fact, in his time on DW, I can think of only one time RTD let the story really be someone else's: Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead. That wasn't inappropriate, either, because he knew Moffat would be the next show runner and it was a chance for Moffat to lay down a little piece of what his story was going to be, giving us that continuity.

::shrugs:: Or it could be too early and I'm rambling. I really need to listen to the radio play.

[elisi]

I think the difference lies in what RTD said after Children of Earth, when fandom was heartbroken over Ianto:

"It's my story, this was how it had to go - so sorry, but screw you if you don't like it."

Joss's statement always came across as very condescending, rather than about the truth of storytelling. Which is why it's so infuriating. I respect the hell of RTD (despite his near complete lack of tact), whereas I'm increasingly unimpressed with Joss (esp given the way he utterly betrayed any kind of truth in the comics).

Re. this play in particular, then it is in many ways pure fanservice - and really, what is wrong with that? It's by far the best of the three, and also addresses (and solves) canon stuff.

In fact, in his time on DW, I can think of only one time RTD let the story really be someone else's: Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead. That wasn't inappropriate, either, because he knew Moffat would be the next show runner and it was a chance for Moffat to lay down a little piece of what his story was going to be, giving us that continuity.
*nods a lot* Very good point, and something that worked very well, as well as being addressed in-show, with River talking about how she's too early.

::shrugs:: Or it could be too early and I'm rambling. I really need to listen to the radio play.
Rambling is ALWAYS good!

[spikewriter]

And I was pretty on board with what Russell said -- but I'd been watching some the writers for CoE get piled on in hugely inappropriate ways by angry fans on Twitter after that episode. He spoke in anger at his friends and fellow writers getting dumped on because the story didn't go the way some folk wanted. (And he has way more tact than Fury and Noxon, even at his worst, IMO.)

And you hit it on the nose about why Joss' statement is so infuriating -- and the fact I really haven't had any urge to read his related material, even before I heard friend's opinions, tells me that while I wasn't loudly angry about it, I was annoyed.

As for the play being fan service, nothin' wrong with that. I think RTD understands that need for closure and wants to make the canon freaks among us happy when he can. He's been there and he understands the feeling; he won't sacrifice his story for it, but if he can get it in there, he seems happy to.

I'm trying to be around and ramble a little more these days. :)

[elisi]

He spoke in anger at his friends and fellow writers getting dumped on because the story didn't go the way some folk wanted.
Oh I remember. *shudders* NOT CLASSY Torchwood fandom. :(

And he has way more tact than Fury and Noxon, even at his worst, IMO.
Well, Buffy's special!

And you hit it on the nose about why Joss' statement is so infuriating -- and the fact I really haven't had any urge to read his related material, even before I heard friend's opinions, tells me that while I wasn't loudly angry about it, I was annoyed.
Joss has certain talents, but he should NEVER EVER be left in charge all by himself. Because at heart he's Xander. In ITW.

As for the play being fan service, nothin' wrong with that.
NOTHING AT ALL! *loves fanservice* And it manages to simultaneously give the shippers everything we ever wanted and at the same time say: 'It's absolutely over'. I am damn impressed to tell you the truth.

I'm trying to be around and ramble a little more these days. :)
I noticed, it's nice! :)

[ibmiller.livejournal.com]

Hmmm...interesting...

[elisi]

I really do respect RTD - I don't expect him to do things how I like it, but I respect his integrity.

He published a book btw (The Writer's Tale), which is e-mail correspondence between him and Benjamin Cook, which is all about writing and how (and why) he writes and where stories come from and it's amazing and painfully honest. I wholeheartedly recommend it.

[ibmiller.livejournal.com]

I was thinking more of your current feelings on Joss...which mirror my own (though I'm still hoping for the Avengers)

[elisi]

Ah. Yes, he's not high on my list. Those comics destroyed a LOT...

[ibmiller.livejournal.com]

Yes. Yes they did. So much so I still refuse to see Dr. Horrible.

And Dollhouse didn't really help at all.

Though, funnily enough, I've gotten myself into a weekly Whedon blog...figures...

[elisi]

Dr Horrible is... fluff, but quite interesting fluff, to be honest. I never wrote about it, but my overall impression was the eternal truth of 'The wages of sin are death'. Go figure.

I know someone who never connected with any Whedon show, and is now flailing about Dollhouse... It's a funny world.

Hee! These things happen... (I currently worship at the altar of the Moff. Because he writes fairy tales with layers.)

[ibmiller.livejournal.com]

Interesting reading. I still don't want to watch it. Though I find "Nobody's Asian in the Movies" painfully funny.

Dollhouse...bleh. Just bad.

I have enjoyed Moffat's work - even DW, which I normally really dislike, managed to get me with "The Doctor Dances." And Sherlock had some distinct promise - I just wish it were less sexist and racist. Though given the source material, it probably was hard to walk those lines. But they didn't exactly help themselves...

[elisi]

Just avoid. It's not great art.

I've never watched it. But the meta is interesting, apparently.

I love Moffat's layers. There are less on them on Sherlock, obviously, and yeah, I think the source material was... difficult. It'll be interesting to see if they've tried to do better re. women & minorities when the show returns.

[ibmiller.livejournal.com]

Well, I promised my friend who roped me into the blog that I'd watch it if I loved Avengers. The meta is mostly overrated (like much of Whedon's post-Firefly work), but that one song is both funny, true, and pretty.

I do hope Sherlock improves quite a bit - the first ep was quite exciting (though with an incredibly poor ending), the second unbelievably offensive to both mind and morals, and the third silly fun.

Off topic, but did you watch Downton Abbey?

[elisi]

Well the whole thing is barely more than what? 45 minutes? Basically it's a supervillain origin story, which is neat, but a bit obvious.

Re. Sherlock, then Moffat wrote the first one, I forget who wrote the second, and what's-his-face (who plays Mycroft) wrote the third. (I *think* that's how it went...)

And no, I didn't. Probably should have, but...

[ibmiller.livejournal.com]

Well, you can have great stuff in 45 minutes (there are plenty of Joss-penned Buffy and Angel episodes to prove that), but those had backstory and future plans to put them in context for them to aspire to such heights.

Moffat wrote 1, some dude who needs to not be so racist, sexist, and write his "smart" characters as morons wrote 2, and Mark Gatiss (who I rather liked as the oily John Dashwood in the 2008 S&S) wrote the third. Has there been anything released about what the format for the next series is?

Just curious about DA - I enjoyed it, though not as much as Andrew Davies' Dickensian 8-hour dramas. But it was loads better than the new UpDown. Or Davies' South Riding.

[elisi]

*nods* Dr Horrible is... sketchy. Penny, the love interest, is a complete cipher.

There MIGHT be info on Sherlock somewhere, but nothing I've seen. Not that I've gone looking. I enjoy watching it, but that's as far as my interest goes. Well I've read a few fics - including a truly AMAZING one - but I'm not particularly fannish.

I'm not really one for costume drama. Dunno why, but it doesn't do much for me.

[chloris67.livejournal.com]

And what happens when you don't give your audience what they want OR what they need? Oh yeah...the comics.

[elisi]

The comics are FILTHY things. We will speak of them no more!

[spikewriter]

You just reminded me I really need to pick up the story that guests Ilona Costa Brava and her Breasts of Doom again.

[elisi]

She is FUN. (She featured in My Immortal. It was fun. *g*)

[japanimecrazed.livejournal.com]

I would love you forever if you returned to that. :)

[quean-of-swords.livejournal.com]

Listened to it yesterday. Still recovering. Part of the recovery might include listening to it again. *whimpers and sniffs*

[elisi]

He saved the world. He changed the world. And he was loved.

It's everything I ever wanted.

[quean-of-swords.livejournal.com]

Amen. :)

[elisi]

I put up a Jack/Ianto banner and it doesn't kill me to look at it. Two years, and all I needed was this. (There are Spike parallels! Just wait - the meta is coming! \o/)