elisi | Two things involving children.

Current Mood: amused

Entry tags:

birthday,
children

Two things involving children.

Happy Birthday

quietpoet! Hope your day is everything you could wish for! *hugs*

~~~~

Then something I've been meaning to share for a while. This is from one of the Cherub's library books, and keeps cracking me up. Clearly someone thought that it was time to update this particular fable for the iPod generation:

"So who'll fetch the flour?" asked Heidi the Hen.

"Not me," said the dog.

"Nor me," squeaked the mouse.

"Oh I'll fetch it myself," muttered Heidi the Hen, and she nipped to the deli and bought it.

(In her little red car. WHAT HAPPENED TO PLANTING CORN AND HARVESTING IT AND TAKING IT TO THE MILL??? Anyway, then she bakes herself a birthday cake which then runs away, is nearly gobbled up by a sly crocodile as it rows the cake across a lake, and is finally caught and eaten by Heidi the Hen and all her friends... Two fables for the price of one!)

~~~

Also, this afternoon, in my front room. (Miss M is 12, Impish Girl 9)

Miss M (musingly): Why is it always the girls with the most make up who scream the loudest?

Impish Girl (dismissively): It's because the girls with the most make up are the stupidest! (Then, contemptuously) Girls with the most make up like Justin Bieber!

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

You are clearly raising your children correctly. :)

Molly

Thank you Ma'am! :)

(I try my best. And I'm lucky that they're all pretty smart.)

Miss M (musingly): Why is it always the girls with the most make up who scream the loudest?

Heh. That is very true. I suppose a lot of makeup is like visual shouting. The basic message is the same: PAY ATTENTION TO ME!!!

I suppose a lot of makeup is like visual shouting.
I shall relay this to Miss M, she'll like it. (On the way home from school today we discussed different depictions of Hell, and agreed that people being all alone/trapped by their own pride (selfishness etc) and so on was far more realistic (you know what I mean) and unsettling than fire and brimstone. I feel just like Phoebe Tucker, you know: "All the children seem to be coming out quite intelligent, thank goodness." Oh! Or like what Bill Murray's character says about his children in 'Lost in Translation'. I don't have time to find it right now...)

When she's older you should point her in the direction of Sartre...

Oh given the way she reads almost everything she'll probably find him herself... ;)

(Btw I finished 'Alien Abduction' if you need a distraction. I hope you're doing OK?)

(I heard from my friend in Japan, so yes. I've not heard from friends/family of other people I know, though, and I'm just... tired. I will read the end of that, though, should make me feel better)

And I quite like Miss M. She's a smart girl, the way I see it.

I heard from my friend in Japan, so yes. I've not heard from friends/family of other people I know, though, and I'm just... tired.
*hugs* I find it hard to get to grips with the scale of the whole thing... I hope you'll hear from people soon (in my next entry there's a link which links to a missing persons database kinda thing).

I still remember how, after Katrina, one of my LJ friends had to wait a month before she managed to find out that her daughter, son-in-law and grandchildren were OK. I don't understand how she stayed sane, not knowing for that long.

And I quite like Miss M. She's a smart girl, the way I see it.
Oh she likes you too! And quite often asks after you. Plus, she has sort-of written the fic she promised you, but it needs... editing. It's lovely, but the plot doesn't make any sense. :)

(Oh and I hope the fic helps you to have a little break. I think breaks are very necessary, but sadly only have fic to offer.)

Edited 2011-03-14 21:12 (UTC)

Eh heh. I forgot that fic. She's so sweet, writing it for me. Tell her I said hi? And that I agree with her about the screaming girl thing. ;)

I have family in Palestine. I went crazy during the bombing in 2007 even though I was in the country. Phonelines were down sometimes. And the explosion of the hotel in Taba? I didn't hear from my cousin for a long time either, she had only JUST decided not to go to the hotel... my anxiety disorder's back lately, and a good friend of mine hadn't heard from her family until yesterday either, and all the Japanese students at the uni... It's heart-breaking.

Tell her I said hi? And that I agree with her about the screaming girl thing. ;)
Will do. And I'll try to sit down with her and force her to edit the story. (Really, it's marvellous to make her learn this stuff now - it'll come in useful for the rest of her life!)

I have family in Palestine.
That must be impossibly difficult. *sends more hugs for future use* I hope your friend hears from her family soon!

(And now I'm going to forget about everything and write! *resolve face*)

Editting skills in my past would have been very useful right now, I agree. *glares at essay around sleeplessness*

Afraid I can't say anything profound about writing as your icon is totally cracking me up! :)

No, to be fair, the icon gets me every time, too.

Hee--the first thing to pop into my head was that's a rather amusing inversion of Monsieur 'hell is other people' Sartre. Glad I'm not the only one.

~~Fools seldom differ~~ Great minds think alike ;)

Lost in Translation quote (IMDb is my friend):

Bob: The most terrifying day of your life is the day the first one is born.
Charlotte: Nobody ever tells you that.
Bob: Your life, as you know it... is gone. Never to return. But they learn how to walk, and they learn how to talk... and you want to be with them. And they turn out to be the most delightful people you will ever meet in your life.

I love that movie something fierce exactly for little bits like that :)

And your philosophical discussion of hell is making me miss my ninth graders. I didn't think I'd like teaching students that young, but they always had neat perspectives and were sort of game to talk about anything. The older ones were a lot quicker to shut down and give you the death stare ;)

I love that movie something fierce exactly for little bits like that :)
AND THE CARPET SAMPLES! (It's such a Married Couple moment! *flails*) Although the bit about children is of course much more profound...

And your philosophical discussion of hell is making me miss my ninth graders.
How old are 9th graders in USA? (I ask, because here in the UK children start school when they're 5. In Scandinavia it's 7...) Anyway, I remember - long ago - leading a Confirmation course with Darcy, and 13-14 year olds are difficult to engage in conversation, since most of them are terrified of someone thinking they're *different*. We got them talking in the end though, and it was v. enjoyable. (More on this if you're interested!)

most 9th graders are 14 to 15 years old

Thank you, it's good to have a reference point. :)

Ninth graders here are mostly 13-14, and you're right, they can be deeply self-conscious. There's just absolutely no forcing them into self-disclosure; you mostly have to provide lots of opportunities and be carefully watching for what they do give you--in whatever form it takes--and then link it back to what you're doing.

I think often they were best with questions. If you showed them that you would take their questions seriously, they would start bringing you serious questions. But they were genuinely interested, that was the thing. They really did want to know. The older students tended to get a jaded, 'why do I have to learn this?' attitude about an awful lot of things.

At least in my experience of religious education, though, it often does have a rather . . . personal bent to it. I know my CCD teachers were often looking for disclosure, which I just did not want to give them. Religion classes tended to make me deeply self-conscious and all the less likely to share anything (that's not an attack on your teaching methods--I think it's just the nature of the thing).

I think often they were best with questions. If you showed them that you would take their questions seriously, they would start bringing you serious questions. But they were genuinely interested, that was the thing. They really did want to know. The older students tended to get a jaded, 'why do I have to learn this?' attitude about an awful lot of things.
*nods a lot*

And as for the course we did, then we had a few tricks for breaking down barriers. Firstly, we'd always start with something daft (an electric dancing cow, a chair-swapping game, a clip from Indiana Jones) which they then had to try to link to the week's topic (at around the halfway point they began to get the hang of it, rather than stare at us as if we were mad). Then we'd do a talk-thing about whatever the topic was, and then ask "What do you think?" [pause for scuffling of feet, wherein we tried not to say "DO you think???"] "Seriously - what do you think? Is this right? Do you think it makes sense? Why would the church believe this? Do you believe it? (It's OK if you don't, as long as it's your decision)" and so on. But I swear, helping those children to think for themselves about what faith actually meant, and whether this was something they agreed with, (rather than - as they were clearly used to - making sure they 'knew all the correct answers') is one of the most rewarding things I've ever done.

Then we'd do a talk-thing about whatever the topic was, and then ask "What do you think?" [pause for scuffling of feet, wherein we tried not to say "DO you think???"]
*snerk* The best teacher I ever had at leading discussions had a fantastic approach to this kind of thing. Because there are so many things that keep people from talking, including a simple need for thinking time. So she would pose some question and then she would sit there, completely patient and content, and wait for people to start talking--five, ten, fifteen minutes. And it always worked, because you knew that she was perfectly happy with giving you that time. And sooner or later someone always gets antsy enough to say something.

Why would the church believe this? Do you believe it? (It's OK if you don't, as long as it's your decision)" and so on. But I swear, helping those children to think for themselves about what faith actually meant, and whether this was something they agreed with, (rather than - as they were clearly used to - making sure they 'knew all the correct answers') is one of the most rewarding things I've ever done.
That is certainly the good fight :) and far, far too rare an approach. As you say, though, there's an awful lot of experience and conditioning there that most kids have--I can see why that would take a great effort to start to get around.

It is fantastically rewarding, though, when you know you've gotten them to seriously re-examine their thinking :)

The best teacher I ever had at leading discussions had a fantastic approach to this kind of thing. Because there are so many things that keep people from talking, including a simple need for thinking time. So she would pose some question and then she would sit there, completely patient and content, and wait for people to start talking--five, ten, fifteen minutes.
Oh that's brilliant. Sadly I don't think we had time enough for that approach.

That is certainly the good fight :) and far, far too rare an approach.
Sad, isn't it? Although we heard on the grapevine that out of the three courses that were being run by the three churches in our town, all the kids thought that ours was far the most interesting! :)

As you say, though, there's an awful lot of experience and conditioning there that most kids have--I can see why that would take a great effort to start to get around.
It's understandable though, that when children are small you teach them 'this is how it is' to give them a basic understanding. ("God is good, and he wants everyone to be good too.") But to jump from that to actual theology and philosophy is... quite something. Hopefully we at least gave them the right tools.

It is fantastically rewarding, though, when you know you've gotten them to seriously re-examine their thinking :)
It really is. And towards the end, they'd start talking straight away, coming up with ideas and connections and their own opinions and it was brilliant. :)

(I had a rather unusual upbringing when it comes to my faith. I'll tell you about it when I find some more spare time...)

Oh that's brilliant. Sadly I don't think we had time enough for that approach.
In truth she rarely had to wait more than a minute or two. And the entire class was just discussion, so she had a very "quality over quantity" attitude about it all. But it's certainly not for every teaching situation.

Although we heard on the grapevine that out of the three courses that were being run by the three churches in our town, all the kids thought that ours was far the most interesting! :)
\o/ Important, too, when kids are supposed to be getting Confirmed . . . making an informed decision about joining the church and all that.

It's understandable though, that when children are small you teach them 'this is how it is' to give them a basic understanding. ("God is good, and he wants everyone to be good too.")
I remember very distinctly when I was maybe five or six, I had a Sunday School class in which our teacher went through the Our Father line by line and explained to us what each one meant and why it was in there. I made a point of thanking her after class--it was the first and one of the few times when I ever felt that someone genuinely thought it was more important that I understand what was going on than that I go along with it.

But to jump from that to actual theology and philosophy is... quite something. Hopefully we at least gave them the right tools.
Isn't that the basic point of education? To learn how to learn for yourself?

(I had a rather unusual upbringing when it comes to my faith. I'll tell you about it when I find some more spare time...)
Please do :)

\o/ Important, too, when kids are supposed to be getting Confirmed . . . making an informed decision about joining the church and all that.
Word. Plus, understanding the Christian faith should surely be the most important thing - otherwise, what's the point?

I made a point of thanking her after class--it was the first and one of the few times when I ever felt that someone genuinely thought it was more important that I understand what was going on than that I go along with it.
That sounds very good indeed.

Isn't that the basic point of education? To learn how to learn for yourself?
Absolutely.

Please do :)
Will do. When life calms down... (It's v. annoying not having time to go into anything properly. *dashes off again*) But I was very lucky, basically.

In her little red car. WHAT HAPPENED TO PLANTING CORN AND HARVESTING IT AND TAKING IT TO THE MILL???

The times they are a changing...

Miss M (musingly): Why is it always the girls with the most make up who scream the loudest?

Impish Girl (dismissively): It's because the girls with the most make up are the stupidest! (Then, contemptuously) Girls with the most make up like Justin Bieber!

Hee!

The times they are a changing...
Oooh what song is that from? *has tune stuck in her head now*

And yeah, they're not big on the whole poster boy thing. They like the Doctor!

Edited 2011-03-14 23:07 (UTC)

*studies empty space*

If that's supposed to be a youtube vid, try using the old embed code. :)

sigh. Of course it's not actually funny at this point...

THANK YOU!

Now I've just got to remember where I remember it from (TV? Movie? WHAT?), but that's for tomorrow.

*yawns and toddles off to bed*

Probably used in a lot of movies; I gather it was kind of iconic. It's the sound I remember from my childhood though-- my dad was a big Dylon fan.

Probably used in a lot of movies; I gather it was kind of iconic.
Oh definitely. I just know that I heard it VERY recently and I still can't place it. Grr.

Girls with the most make up like Justin Bieber!

*gigglesnort* Impish Girl is wise beyond her years. *nods*

I think most 9 year olds are pretty good at sussing out the world. (Although Impish Girl has a fabulous way about her, oh yes.)

(Then, contemptuously) Girls with the most make up like Justin Bieber!

So right - that totally is proof absolute of their stupidity.

They don't really get the point of High School Musical either. I couldn't be more proud! :)

Sensible girls. Thankfully mine (also 12 and 9) have the same attitude to Justine Bieber, though they are more into Primeval than Doctor Who. :)

though they are more into Primeval than Doctor Who. :)
I've never seen Primeval, so I don't really have an opinion, but I know for a fact that dinosaurs are MUCH more interesting than Justin Bieber! :)

Oh how your children rock. I applaud the dismissal of too much make-up AND Justin Bieber.

I attribute the modernization of children's fables to the same people who thought that The Chronicles of Narnia needed to be reorganized in chronological order because apparently kids can't understand them otherwise. Funny, I didn't have a problem, did you?

Oh how your children rock. I applaud the dismissal of too much make-up AND Justin Bieber.
Clearly if you bring them up on Doctor Who and Red Dwarf, things turn out OK! :)

I attribute the modernization of children's fables to the same people who thought that The Chronicles of Narnia needed to be reorganized in chronological order because apparently kids can't understand them otherwise.
*rolls eyes* My kids try to grapple with the timey-wimey-ness of Doctor Who, something which gives adults a headache... (KIDS ARE SMART!)

Clearly if you bring them up on Doctor Who and Red Dwarf, things turn out OK!
Anything is better than some of the overly sugary crud they turn out for 'children's entertainment' here in the US. I remember when adults could be entertained by cartoons, too.

(KIDS ARE SMART!)
Indeed. I read in an into to an anniversary edition of A Wrinkle in Time that Ms. L'Engle had to keep telling her editors that when they wanted her to dumb down the science parts of that series.

Anything is better than some of the overly sugary crud they turn out for 'children's entertainment' here in the US. I remember when adults could be entertained by cartoons, too.
Interestingly enough there's a fair bit of quality children's TV around at the moment. There's Horrible Histories (which is easily one of the best comedies around), plus lots of comedians are making children's shows, because they can do (silly, daft, fantastical) stuff they can't on regular TV.

Indeed. I read in an into to an anniversary edition of A Wrinkle in Time that Ms. L'Engle had to keep telling her editors that when they wanted her to dumb down the science parts of that series.
Why am I not surprised?

::loves impish girl::

She is my SPECIAL GIRL!

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Two things involving children.

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject