elisi | Time (Lords) Can Be Re-Written. Meta on Ten -> Eleven.

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Time (Lords) Can Be Re-Written. Meta on Ten -> Eleven.

Firstly, then the icon really says it all. The post is merely an attempt at explaining my thinking behind it.

Secondly, most of this sprang out of long and complicated conversations with

promethia_tenk, who deserves credit for at least half of this, if not more.

Thirdly, HUGE thank you’s to

kathyh for making the icon, for lo, it is awesome and everything I wanted. :) Also it is very snaggable! Just credit Kathy.

Ten -> Eleven
I will start with a quote from Radio Times, which sums up a lot of the discussion on the topic so far:

‘Meanwhile, Matt Smith walked straight into Doctor Who and made the role his own, with a sweet, quirky and funny interpretation of a man who was once in danger of becoming a bleak, existential figure consumed by loss and despair.’

(The use of the word 'once' cracks me up, btw. 'Once'? You mean last year? Heh.)

Anyway, I loved that bleak, existential Doctor rather a lot, but was happy to see the change (he sorely needed it, poor thing). The problem of course being - was the change too great? How could he change so very drastically? (I re-watched 'The Eleventh Hour' the other day, and throughout tried to remind myself that he'd just been Ten. It wasn't easy – maybe that ‘once’ isn’t so misplaced after all.)

When mulling this over, I kept coming back to this quote from Angel – the context is rather complex (it is spoken re. someone becoming a vampire), but I think it speaks well enough on its own:

"What we once were informs all that we have become.”

I have said before that I don’t see much of Ten in Eleven – except for the effects of having been Ten. And I think we need to look on that as being deliberate – Eleven is a conscious, intentional attempt at change, a decision to transform made flesh, literally. This works twofold:

1. In many ways Eleven isn’t a continuation so much as a reaction against Ten’s more problematic flaws. Or a self-correction, maybe – swinging the other way? This is not uncommon – look at Two and Three, or Five and Six, or Seven and Eight, for examples of drastic change. (I always loved One's comment, when meeting Two and Three: "So you're my replacements - a dandy and a clown." I know there are icons out featuring Nine, Ten and Eleven with the same text.)

2. Stepping back further we can see how the Doctor, post-Time War, slowly re-gains a sense of self. The Doctor from Classic!Who was bright (sometimes too bright, I’m looking at you, Six) and eccentric. Nine was all in black (mourning), closed off (lonely), taciturn (guilty). Nine led to Ten - brighter, more in-your-face, but also more brittle, and with a very sharp dress code. Ten was the man of ‘No second chances’, someone who had a tendency to see the world in black and white - for or against him. Which brings us to Eleven. Eleven who is a true eccentric once more, and a man who – whilst mourning the loss of his race, and wishing things could have been different – no longer lets his loss (or his actions) define him.

But how did it happen so ‘quickly’? Well, here's my theory. To start off with 'A Christmas Carol':

Amy: Time can be re-written.
Kazran (scornful): People can't!

Well now, ignoring the extent to which the Doctor re-wrote Kazran, please look at this:

The Doctor (to Amelia): Am I 'people'? Do I even look like 'people'?

This is in essence what my icon says: Timelords rewrite themselves. After all, what else is regeneration? I think in many ways Eleven's 'birth' is very much borne out of a moment like the one where young!Kazran sees his older self - death (that Ten runs from so desperately) in the end forces him to look inwards, to look at who he is, the mistakes he made, and deal with it, in many ways exactly like

sahiya summed it up:

‘In "The End of Time," when Ten dies, it is with one last big melodramatic, overwrought, overly emotional BANG. And then he wakes up as Eleven - AND IT'S FINE. Better than fine, really. Sure, the TARDIS is crashing, but it's not like that hasn't happened before, and then he meets this awesome little Scottish girl, and really, things are fine. And the Doctor goes, "Holy crap on a cracker, I was mad. Let's not do that again!"’

Because the thing is, he's a Timelord, not 'people'. Where a human being needs time (and therapy would be neat too) to move forward, a Timelord can do things that seem impossible - or rather, Timelords quite simply work differently. Ten's flaws and strengths were there right from the start, running through him like the letters in a stick of rock. He didn't 'grow' so much as become more and more entrenched, until finally we got all the growth and change all in one go, when he regenerated. And wouldn't that make sense, from what we know about Timelords? Personally I can absolutely accept that in the moment of death/regeneration, the Doctor's DNA performed clever self-corrections. He claims not to have much - if any - control over this process, but I think he lies. I think he has control over what kind of person he turns into, if not maybe the physical form. (I also like how this makes his whole world view very different from a human's. Plus it casts new light on why Jack is so wrong from the Doctor's perspective: It's death without change, and unnatural in the extreme from a Timelord's POV.)

But I'm rambling now. My basic point remains very simple:

Eleven is the Doctor, re-written.

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I agree so much to all of this.

I know the audio adventures have a complicated explanation for why Romana regenerated after the Key to Time arc. Based on the just TV canon though, I concluded that she had decided to stay with the Doctor, despite what she had thought was a mission from the President of Gallifrey being over. She also decided she couldn't be the prim young woman in-calculated with the all the expectations of Time Lord society. She was out in the universe now. So, she changed.

Unless Time Lords are busy assassinating each other behind each other's backs, it seems like a pretty safe place. I doubt they get sick much, either. Yet, Time Lords must have regenerated with reasonable frequency, right? I'd guess Romana's method is actually how the majority of Time Lords regenerated: choice. They live for so long and get bored, or something happens in their lives they can't deal with as they are, so makes themselves something new.

That makes the Doctor actually very reactive in this one aspect of his life.

I wonder how many regenerations the Master went through try to make himself 'perfect'?

I agree so much to all of this.
\o/

She was out in the universe now. So, she changed.
This makes sense to me. I know very little - only what I've picked by fandom osmosis - but I do know that she 'tried out' several different faces, as it were, which would definitely support your theory.

I'd guess Romana's method is actually how the majority of Time Lords regenerated: choice. They live for so long and get bored, or something happens in their lives they can't deal with as they are, so makes themselves something new.
*nods* And I like how... alien that is. A fundamentally different way of seeing the world.

That makes the Doctor actually very reactive in this one aspect of his life.
It does rather! Heh.

I wonder how many regenerations the Master went through try to make himself 'perfect'?
You've read 'the naming of things' I take it? ;)

I'd guess Romana's method is actually how the majority of Time Lords regenerated: choice. They live for so long and get bored, or something happens in their lives they can't deal with as they are, so makes themselves something new.
*nods* And I like how... alien that is. A fundamentally different way of seeing the world.

Is it though, really? Don't we do similar, just without the physical change? How many people look at things like moving to a new city, or going away to college, or starting a new relationship as a chance to be someone new? That feeling of "nobody here knows that I was a nerd in high school so I can decide to be something different now." I mean, they may have varying degrees of success, but it's the same sort of mentality.

(I remember reading someone's meta thinking about how dramatically different different regenerations are--and how they tend to fight with each other--and compared it to thinking about the person you were 5, 10, 15 years ago. What would you think of your teenage self if you met them face to face? They probably would seem like an entirely different person. You probably would tell yourself that you're annoying and have stupid clothes.)

It's that thing again about what science fiction can do for us: it takes abstract ideas about what life is like and makes them concrete so we can study them more clearly. People can't "be rewritten" but they do rewrite themselves all the time. It's not as sudden and dramatic as regeneration, but it happens, and at a certain point in life we can legitimately look back on our earlier self and feel like we were a different person then.

Well now, ignoring the extent to which the Doctor re-wrote Kazran
Never ignore a ~~coincidence~~ allegory!

It's that thing again about what science fiction can do for us: it takes abstract ideas about what life is like and makes them concrete so we can study them more clearly.
*loves sci-fi*

Never ignore a ~~coincidence~~ allegory!
I certainly will when I need to stay on point. If I went into all the Kazran = the Doctor parallels the post would have been ten times longer. *g* Also, I figure you want to tackle that in your post?

That feeling of "nobody here knows that I was a nerd in high school so I can decide to be something different now." I mean, they may have varying degrees of success, but it's the same sort of mentality.
Interestingly this is a major part of Willow's arc on BtVS, and one that turns very dark since she goes to great lengths to hide/ignore who she used to be - it's almost like the opposite of Kazran. She tries to deliberately re-write herself, and the consequences are dire. /random

ANYWAY, you reminded me of something I should maybe have put in the post - something I don't know if I've actually mentioned to you before. But Ten's "I don't want to go" in many ways struck me as the words of someone committing suicide, and then - once it's too late - regretting. Which then, if they miraculously were saved, would probably cause them to embrace life with renewed vigour.

I remember reading someone's meta thinking about how dramatically different different regenerations are--and how they tend to fight with each other--and compared it to thinking about the person you were 5, 10, 15 years ago. What would you think of your teenage self if you met them face to face? They probably would seem like an entirely different person. You probably would tell yourself that you're annoying and have stupid clothes.
Oh yes. Except Timelords are lucky in that they literally change - I'm think of Willow here, and if she'd had an actual death-and-rebirth she'd probably have been far more comfortable reconciling her past and present selves. Which is interesting. Hmmm.

Yep, I've mentioned before that I have a theory that the rewriting you mention is the natural process of regeneration, but that Ten went out of his way to subvert it by trying to make it easier for Rose. He tried to become more human, and it led to many of his problems.
That was very much on my mind, actually, and originally I had a section on the Nine/Ten regeneration in here, but I cut it out in the end because it went off track. But yes, I agree very much. After all, Rusty himself said that she imprinted on him - which is why I don't mind the focus on her that the show had. She was Ten's focus after all.

It would also explain why FoB created such an explosion and strong reaction in his personality.
*nods a lot* It all makes sense.

Good meta.
Thank you. :)

This is wonderful meta - and makes so much sense.

Eleven is the Doctor, re-written.

Yes!

This is wonderful meta - and makes so much sense.
:) (Making sense is the gold standard!)

Yep! That's how I always saw it. Each regeneration is borne out of the previous but that doesn't mean we should see some sort of gradual evolution. Instead it's Puncuated Equilibrium. (in one being instead of in a species but the same idea!) All the change gathers up and then bursts out as it were. :D

Oh that's a brilliant way of putting it! :D

"Punctuated Equilibrium."

YOU WIN THE INTERNET.

*big cheesy grin*

Ooooh, interesting.

I have said before that I don’t see much of Ten in Eleven – except for the effects of having been Ten.

One of the themes of S5 was that the Doctor was the Doctor was the Doctor. I agree, Eleven is a very conscious reaction to Ten, and the darkness within--but Ten still lurks there, as they all do. Eleven was in danger of slipping back into Ten in "Victory of the Daleks." It was there in his reaction to the Daleks, and in his reaction while trying to defuse Bracewell's bomb. (Which I think I mentioned before, way back when.)

He [Ten] didn't 'grow' so much as become more and more entrenched, until finally we got all the growth and change all in one go, when he regenerated.

I disagree. Ten's evidence of growth and change came in TEoT when he said goodbye to his companions. I know fans detested the Long Goodbye, but IMHO that coda was absolutely critical to finish his arc. I'm working on an essay why, I really should finish it. Anywho, Ten's journey was realizing he was never truly alone. To do that, he had to re-define what "family" meant to him, in the absence of Gallifrey (and, after S2, Rose). His tragedy in S3 and the end of S4 was, he was so focused on being "last of the Time Lords" that he couldn't see the family right in front of his face. ("The Doctor's Daughter": A Time Lord is so much more. A sum of knowledge. A code. A shared history. A shared suffering. Oh, Ten, so rigid. Why is it the most insightful arc episodes are also the worst?) As a result, Eleven becomes a parental figure. So I do see Ten ---> Eleven continuity.

Eleven was in danger of slipping back into Ten in "Victory of the Daleks." It was there in his reaction to the Daleks, and in his reaction while trying to defuse Bracewell's bomb. (Which I think I mentioned before, way back when.)
Oh yes, I agree. I've even written meta on it! I think I described it as Eleven 'unlearning' his bad habits from being Ten. The Beast Below is actually an even better example - the Doctor thinks it's all about him (his choice!), and then not only does Amy take the choice away from him, she shows him that he was wrong. *Such* an important episode!

I disagree. Ten's evidence of growth and change came in TEoT when he said goodbye to his companions. I know fans detested the Long Goodbye, but IMHO that coda was absolutely critical to finish his arc.
Well I see Eleven's beginning - if I have to split hairs - as the moment when he walked into that booth, saving Wilf's life. That acceptance of death (when he could have left) is one of the cornerstones of Eleven, and The Long Goodbye is a part of that. In this post I just aimed for brevity, and thus many things were implied that maybe should have been clearer. Ah well, that's what the comments are for y/y? ;)

Anywho, Ten's journey was realizing he was never truly alone. To do that, he had to re-define what "family" meant to him, in the absence of Gallifrey (and, after S2, Rose). His tragedy in S3 and the end of S4 was, he was so focused on being "last of the Time Lords" that he couldn't see the family right in front of his face.
*nods a lot*

Edited 2011-01-17 18:37 (UTC)

Anywho, Ten's journey was realizing he was never truly alone. To do that, he had to re-define what "family" meant to him, in the absence of Gallifrey (and, after S2, Rose). His tragedy in S3 and the end of S4 was, he was so focused on being "last of the Time Lords" that he couldn't see the family right in front of his face.

I agree with this a lot. He's so ready to reject Martha's suggestion that the Face of Boe might have meant her, but she may have been right after all. Especially after the Jack=Face of Boe revelation it's very easy to read it like this, because Jack of course shared Martha's feeling of not being 'seen'. But Ten is so fixated on the one reading of the line that fits his self-image that he isn't even willing to consider the possibility of an alternative reading.

I agree with this a lot. He's so ready to reject Martha's suggestion that the Face of Boe might have meant her, but she may have been right after all.
I love this. And yes, I think you're spot-on. And it ties in with something else Promethia and I were talking about - how Ten (after losing Rose) begins to see every companion 'relationship' as doomed. Martha, originally, he only took for a few journeys, and in the end she left. So did Jack. Astrid died. And then when he lost Donna he stopped even considering the idea of a new companion. His loneliness became another self-fulfilling prophecy because of his mindset.

Anywho, Ten's journey was realizing he was never truly alone. To do that, he had to re-define what "family" meant to him, in the absence of Gallifrey (and, after S2, Rose). His tragedy in S3 and the end of S4 was, he was so focused on being "last of the Time Lords" that he couldn't see the family right in front of his face. ("The Doctor's Daughter": A Time Lord is so much more. A sum of knowledge. A code. A shared history. A shared suffering. Oh, Ten, so rigid. Why is it the most insightful arc episodes are also the worst?) As a result, Eleven becomes a parental figure.

I completely love this and would very much like to see that essay.

I enjoyed this! ♥

Thank you! :)

Interesting points!

I'm a little handicapped-- I was only vaguely aware of the who-niverse and the Doctor before Nine; so while I've made a point of seeking out classic who I've experienced it through a filter of Nine, Ten, and now Eleven. I've actually never watched any of the Romana I stories. Four has such great chemistry with Romana II; I should go seeek out the Key arch. (BTW, there needs to be some Buffy-verse/Who-niverse crossovers focused on Dawn, don't you think?)

I grew to love the Doctor when he was Nine and continued to love him as Ten in a big way because he was so broken. He was so much more relateble than the classic who doctor was. I see what you mean about Eleven being more healed than Ten, but it also distances him.

Interesting points!
Thank you. :)

And I really ought to watch Old!Who - I've only seen a fraction. And yes, there should definitely be more crossovers with Dawn!

I grew to love the Doctor when he was Nine and continued to love him as Ten in a big way because he was so broken. He was so much more relateble than the classic who doctor was.
Oh absolutely.

I see what you mean about Eleven being more healed than Ten, but it also distances him.
Hmm, I guess. People keep saying that, but considering the huge focus we had on him, I can only think distance is a good thing. I mean, how much deeper could we go? ;)

Plus it casts new light on why Jack is so wrong from the Doctor's perspective: It's death without change, and unnatural in the extreme from a Timelord's POV.

*Jaw Drop* That is one of the absolute most insightful things I have ever read about the Doctor's reaction against Jack. Brilliant. Your whole essay is in fact brilliant, but most I had thought of or read, but I never fit that bit into it. BRILLIANT.

One thing though- I don't think the Doctor would have been able to heal so completely though if Ten had not ended the way he had. Nine was still feeling guilty when he died and that carried through into Ten. But Ten--when he died--had finally decided he wanted to LIVE and, the way I see it, in having to make the choice again to doom Gallifrey he could finally forgive himself for doing it.

I think Ten in a lot of ways was always doubting his own actions in the Time War, but in having to confirm it was the only way by repeating them he could finally let go of the guilt.

And I'm rambling too now.

There's a fic on whofic that the total is not my favorite, but within it has one of the most brilliant analyses I've ever seen of how each doctor is a reaction against the previous:

http://www.whofic.com/viewstory.php?sid=12441

*Jaw Drop* That is one of the absolute most insightful things I have ever read about the Doctor's reaction against Jack. Brilliant. Your whole essay is in fact brilliant, but most I had thought of or read, but I never fit that bit into it. BRILLIANT.
*BEAMS* And it only came to me, as I was writing the rest... (Good Lord I love meta!) When death is hardwired into you as your major instrument of change, something that's the opposite must be awful. (Like a zombie for a human?)

I think Ten in a lot of ways was always doubting his own actions in the Time War, but in having to confirm it was the only way by repeating them he could finally let go of the guilt.
Oh SO much word! I actually came to this exact same conclusion myself recently, which also sheds light on Ten's attitude, his need to always be right: He has to be right, because if he can be wrong, then maybe he was wrong then... But then, Rassilon turns up and proves that he did make the right (the only possible) call.

Oh, and rambling is ALWAYS good! Plus thank you for the rec! :D

When death is hardwired into you as your major instrument of change, something that's the opposite must be awful. (Like a zombie for a human?)

Oooooo, zombie. I LOVE IT. *claps* See also Freud's definition of the uncanny (from Wikipedia):

The Uncanny (Ger. Das Unheimliche -- literally, "un-home-ly", but idiomatically, "scary", "creepy") is a Freudian concept of an instance where something can be familiar, yet foreign at the same time, resulting in a feeling of it being uncomfortably strange.[1] (See Uncanny valley)

Because the uncanny is familiar, yet strange, it often creates cognitive dissonance within the experiencing subject due to the paradoxical nature of being attracted to, yet repulsed by an object at the same time. This cognitive dissonance often leads to an outright rejection of the object, as one would rather reject than rationalize.

A huge, huge source of the uncanny--and probably the most disturbing one--is when we can't tell if something is living or dead (which is why things like robots, possessed toys, and zombies are all creepy). Jack would be like the Time Lord-specific version of that: something that seems very like a Time Lord (immortal, regenerates) and yet is not (doesn't change).

Oooooo, zombie. I LOVE IT. *claps* See also Freud's definition of the uncanny (from Wikipedia):
VERY neat! 'This cognitive dissonance often leads to an outright rejection of the object, as one would rather reject than rationalize.' That's pretty perfect isn't it? Oh I'm so pleased.

A huge, huge source of the uncanny--and probably the most disturbing one--is when we can't tell if something is living or dead (which is why things like robots, possessed toys, and zombies are all creepy). Jack would be like the Time Lord-specific version of that: something that seems very like a Time Lord (immortal, regenerates) and yet is not (doesn't change).
*nods a lot*

the way I see it, in having to make the choice again to doom Gallifrey he could finally forgive himself for doing it.

I think Ten in a lot of ways was always doubting his own actions in the Time War, but in having to confirm it was the only way by repeating them he could finally let go of the guilt.

Oh, absolutely. I know that many have said that they thought that Ten hadn't achieved any measure of closure by the time he "died", but for me, the line about the way he CHOSE to remember the Time Lords says it all. He finally faces the fact that the reality of them wasn't necessarily so great and as you say, realises, by repeating his actions that they were the right ones.

Very interesting. A lot of thought in it.

Rewatching some of Who recently it's increasingly struck me that I loved 10 on the first go round but the existential angst kind of overwhelmed me by the end, so I notice it more every time I see those episodes again and I don't like it quite as much.

The existential angst was interesting, I just think they may have done a bit too much of it.

Very interesting. A lot of thought in it.
Thank you. And oh, you have no idea the HUGE amounts of thoughts behind it... (Promethia and I talk a lot.)

The existential angst was interesting, I just think they may have done a bit too much of it.
*nods* It became... oppressive towards the end. Well done, and 'Waters of Mars' is brilliant, but there are shades of S6 of Buffy.

here from

who_daily. I quite enjoyed your insights in this. I agree with you in the way that the Doctor can re-write himself. Partially, becoming a new person -- getting a new body -- gives him a chance to step back and examine who he was and learn from it.

Thank you. :) And I'm glad you agree - many people found the sudden change very difficult to deal with, so I wanted to work out why the leap was so sudden.

Eleven is a conscious, intentional attempt at change, a decision to transform made flesh, literally.

Yes. I love this. On the surface Eleven is SO DIFFERENT, and then you watch something like "Amy's Choice", and the deep self-hatred is still SO MUCH THERE. Ugh, I love it.

Yes. I love this. On the surface Eleven is SO DIFFERENT, and then you watch something like "Amy's Choice", and the deep self-hatred is still SO MUCH THERE. Ugh, I love it.
*nods a lot* It's all there, underneath the surface, and it's brilliant. (I am *such* a sucker for show-don't-tell...)

All very well put. I agree and think this is the case for pretty much all of the Doctors. You can look at all of them and see this same process.

Add to that the distaste he seems to have for himself when he runs in to other regenerations. Excepting Ten and Five becasue well, Ten would be pretty well saturated with nostalgia.

All very well put. I agree and think this is the case for pretty much all of the Doctors. You can look at all of them and see this same process.
That's it. We had Rose to bridge the gap between Nine and Ten, but with Eleven we got new *everything* along with a new Doctor, so many new fans, not familiar with the old show, felt very unsure.

Add to that the distaste he seems to have for himself when he runs in to other regenerations. Excepting Ten and Five becasue well, Ten would be pretty well saturated with nostalgia.
Oh he would rather. *pets Ten* (And oh, I wish there was a way for Ten and Eleven to meet... *deep sigh*)

Nice. I think a lot of this is stuff I had loosely in my head, but it's good to have it all marshalled together into a proper argument like this. Ten's speech in the Sycorax spaceship says the same thing; he's done all his changing in one go, and then he has to work out who he is, because he's become it already but not through experience like a human. Hence all the fun with fic where the Doctor is in new territory, too...

Nice. I think a lot of this is stuff I had loosely in my head, but it's good to have it all marshalled together into a proper argument like this.
Thank you. :) And yes, that was one of the reasons for writing it. I had the idea (well it was a joint effort), and then managed to sweet talk Kathy into making me the icon, and then thought I'd better put it all down properly. :)

Ten's speech in the Sycorax spaceship says the same thing; he's done all his changing in one go, and then he has to work out who he is, because he's become it already but not through experience like a human.
Oooh yes. Meant to mention that, but must have forgotten during all my edits. And I rather love how RTD makes Ten explain it all, with big words and diagrams (well almost), since a lot of the viewers would be unfamiliar with the whole thing. :)

Hence all the fun with fic where the Doctor is in new territory, too...
Indeed.

Edited 2011-01-18 14:34 (UTC)

Very interesting, as usual :-)

I think that one of the ... problems may be the wrong word - issues? I've had with Eleven is that I was able to get a handle on him initially only in relation to Ten; because he is, as you say a reaction against the heightened emotional states that Ten frequently displayed.
And that feels like a cheat to me - because I want to know Eleven AS Eleven, and not just because of the things he isn't - if that makes sense?

But then, Moffat clearly sees the Doctor through a different filter to the one we were used to, and I suspect he wants to keep him (the Doctor) a little more distanced from the audience - Eleven is certainly more secretive and repressed than Ten was.

Very interesting, as usual :-)
Thank you! :)

I think that one of the ... problems may be the wrong word - issues? I've had with Eleven is that I was able to get a handle on him initially only in relation to Ten; because he is, as you say a reaction against the heightened emotional states that Ten frequently displayed.
And that feels like a cheat to me - because I want to know Eleven AS Eleven, and not just because of the things he isn't - if that makes sense?
You know, this is fascinating, because I had pretty much the opposite reaction. Throughout The Eleventh Hour Eleven is trying to find his feet, and there are a few echoes of Ten, but then towards the end ("To hell with the raggedy, time to put on a show!") Eleven just snaps into being, perfect in every detail and utterly himself. There were a few glimpses (talking about the Timelords in ep2, his reaction to the Daleks in ep3 and his reluctance to interact with River in ep4) that hinted at the past, but it was rather oblique, something that was part of him (like lingering aftereffects), but something he dealt with over the course of those episodes and then went away. To me he stands very much on his own (or rather, he is far closer to the classic Doctors) - like the RTD era was his time of getting over the trauma of the war, and how he's well again. If it wasn't because I loved continuity I'd happily have forgotten all about Ten(*), since - to me - Eleven is so well defined on his own. I've discussed this with promethia, trying to work out what it is, because Eleven just is. Actually, I think I'm seeing it from the other side now - that is, seeing Ten through the lens of Eleven. That is - Ten's brokenness and meltdown is what leads to Eleven.

OK, I have no idea if I'm making any sense outside of my own head anymore. ETA: I think what I'm trying to say is that Ten was such a mass of contradictions, so prone to go over the edge one way or another ("You need someone to stop you") - like an unstable element, and fascinating because of that. Eleven grew out of that (the unstable element decayed into a stable one), and he feels so much more solid. (I've said this before, but Eleven makes me feel safe. Ten, bless his cotton socks, really didn't.) I can't pin Ten down. But I know where I am with Eleven.

But then, Moffat clearly sees the Doctor through a different filter to the one we were used to, and I suspect he wants to keep him (the Doctor) a little more distanced from the audience - Eleven is certainly more secretive and repressed than Ten was.
Not sure about repressed. Well, that depends what you mean - I think Eleven is in many ways far more aware of him himself, and represses far less, than Ten did. OTOH he's more reserved, definitely.

(*)well I love Ten, and do definitely NOT want to forget him! But for the purposes of the point I'm making...

Edited 2011-01-19 11:16 (UTC)

the unstable element decayed into a stable one

That makes perfect sense to me :)

And perhaps repressed was the wrong word as well - what I meant was that from the few outbursts we've seen and then from comments such as the one about the way that loneliness sits on a heart, or the steely way he insists on no weapons (in the same episode), that he's repressing a lot. I still have a theory that Eleven is a bit of a powder-keg, but that it'll take a helluva lot more to set him off than it would Ten. But it'll be a bloody big bang if/when he blows!!

That makes perfect sense to me :)
Hurrah for metaphors!

And perhaps repressed was the wrong word as well - what I meant was that from the few outbursts we've seen and then from comments such as the one about the way that loneliness sits on a heart, or the steely way he insists on no weapons (in the same episode), that he's repressing a lot.
Well he keeps certain things private, oh yes. But I think he has a much clearer view of things than Ten did, and he doesn't run away from the harsh truths about himself - although neither does he wallow in them. ("Oh the Dreamlord was me, wasn't that obvious?")

I still have a theory that Eleven is a bit of a powder-keg, but that it'll take a helluva lot more to set him off than it would Ten. But it'll be a bloody big bang if/when he blows!!
"Now my Doctor... I've seen whole armies turn and run away. And he'd just swagger off back to his TARDIS and open the doors with a snap of his fingers." You know, I'm not sure he'd explode. The scene I keep coming back to is his interrogation of Aleya, because he never raises his voice, never makes an outright threat, and yet you know you do not want to mess with him. I think it's the quietness that's frightening, actually. "One thing you never put in a trap!" (When he gets angry, it's usually because he doesn't feel up to the situation, rather than being angry at *others*.)

I think it's the quietness that's frightening,

Oh, absolutely. And that's something we see in Nine and Ten as well.

Matt does have a way with the "quiet threat" - he can be really creepy sometimes!

*nods*

I think the quietness is scary because it suggests that here is someone who is completely in control - someone who'll fight carefully and logically and not be led astray by emotions (Oooh Ten in 'Family of Blood'!). Someone exploding is likely to act rashly, and therefor foolishly - although when it comes to someone with the Doctor's power, a loss of control can be spectacularly destructive... just look at Mars.

Anyway, now I'm rambling. :)

*applauds*

This meta pleases me. One of my first impressions of Eleven was that he had, well, rebooted himself – basically dealt with/repressed the Time War angst and gone back to a personality similar to his earliest selves – and you just put that into words in a way that made perfect sense.

Now to read all of these comments...

*applauds*
*curtsies*

This meta pleases me. One of my first impressions of Eleven was that he had, well, rebooted himself – basically dealt with/repressed the Time War angst and gone back to a personality similar to his earliest selves – and you just put that into words in a way that made perfect sense.
Thank you! And yes, it was very much the same thing - I knew how it came across to me, but I wanted to put it down so in future I could point to it and say 'This is what I mean', rather than having to re-explain it every time (and often with a lot less eloquence thanks to time restraints).

And the comments are pretty great! :)

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Time (Lords) Can Be Re-Written. Meta on Ten -> Eleven.

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