Ramblings.

[elisi]

Snow again. Although only enough to cover the ground.

Many thanks to jamalov29 for the lovely virtual present and to green_maia for the card! :)

Via zanthinegirl a fabulous video:

Watch on YouTube

And then, for promethia_tenk, a writing meme.

1. How about a brief introduction of yourself?
I'm Elisi. Apparently I'm legendary. ;)

2. And what got you into fanfiction to begin with?
Buffy. Or Spike I suppose. Or, if we're talking about writing, rather than reading, then it was the thought 'What if Riley had turned up during S5 of AtS?' No one had written it, and so I began to speculate. And soon enough scenes were playing out in my head and then I had to write them down. Never looked back... (Unlike most people, I'm still very fond of - and rather proud of - my first ever fic. I think because what it does - which is all characterstuff - it does very well.)

3. What kind of fanfiction do you like to write?
Character exploration. Plus crossovers, as part of that - letting people meet who don't (or can't) in canon is endlessly fascinating to me.

4. Do you tend to write the same pairings/characters? Or are you a fandom whore?
I tend to go for the same kind of pairings, so kinda yes?

5. What is your most popular fanfic and why do you think people like it so?
'My Immortal'. Why? Well it's an exploration of the most perfect crossover ever, in great and loving detail. Apparently people are as enamoured of meticulous continuity and the marrying of 'verses as I am. *g*

6. Forget other people...what is the fanfic you've written that you're most proud of?
Oh dear. Um... Possibly 'The Tale of Spike's New Princess' because it deals with something incredibly squicky and disturbing, and yet I managed to also create a beautiful love story at the same time. Or my Seeker 'verse, quite simply because so much of it is original. Also stories where I manage to make people like a character they otherwise can't stand.

7. Do you find writing easy? Hard? What are the most difficult aspects of writing?
First drafts tend to be problematic, quite simply because trying to get the vision in my head onto paper (as it were) isn't all that easy. Once I've got a draft, however, I can begin to edit and that I love. Most difficult? Trying to get the words (and rhythms) just right. I have been known to edit stuff for the sake of a comma. Often work stuff out in my head ahead of writing, turning phrases and lines and paragraphs over and over until they're just right. Sometimes I know exactly how something goes, word for word. I love it when that happens.

8. Write a few sentences or so of your favorite pairing or character.
Sorry, can't choose.

9. Are there any fanfiction trends/cliches that you're sick of?
Many.

10. Are you guilty of any of these? Or have you committed other crimes?
When I have, I have been fully aware of what I'm doing. *g*

11. What was the first fandom you wrote for? Do you continue to like/participate in it?
Buffy. And yes.

12. Name your OTPs or most frequently written pairings/characters and explain what it is about them that you love to write.
Spike/Buffy, Spike/Angel, Spike/Buffy/Angel, Jack/Ianto, Doctor/Master, Master/Lucy, Doctor/River. My rule of thumb is generally that you should be able to put the characters in an empty room and just watch them spark off each other. Indeed, I often find the dialogue/discussion/situation comes first, and then I need to work out a plot that will bring my characters to where I want them.

13. What would you call your writing "style"?
Quite straightforward, although I wish I was more lyrical.

14. Do you read other people's fanfics? If so, what do you find yourself reading the most?
Yes. In most cases I read along the same lines that I write, except often others can do stuff I can only dream of.

15. Name one thing you'd LOVE to write but haven't yet.
I'd like to get back to 'Divided Destiny'. BtVS/AtS fic that's a sequel to another fic: 'Maybe Someday'. This fic, however, will be pretty epic and very plotty, and deals with Spike, Angel and Illyria post the finale to AtS. It's very ambitious, but I got stalled after 50,000 words and it'll be at least as much again. But I'd like to do it, just to prove that I can. Also, it's pretty good, if I say so myself.

16. Do you have trouble taking criticism? Or worse yet, do you have a really bloated ego?
I am as thin skinned as Stephen Fry, although I hope I'm not conceited. *worries* (That said, I love my beta to absolute distraction, because she's never afraid to tell me when something doesn't work.)

17. When you write is there anything that helps? Music? Quiet room?
Peace & quiet, yes. My own computer. The right kind of music - often a single album, or even song, on repeat.

18. What inspires you?
My imagination just tends to run away with me.

19. Lastly, how would you sum up your fanfiction experiences and yourself as a writer?
Love fanfic. Love writing. If it wasn't for the former I might never have discovered how much the latter means to me. I can't imagine a life without writing, now.

Comments

[promethia_tenk]

Oh, yay, you did the meme \o/ Thank you! Weirdly, you are the fourth person to do so this week. Are we in a period of unusual solar flares or something?

Plus crossovers, as part of that - letting people meet who don't (or can't) in canon is endlessly fascinating to me.
Huh. That's interesting. Not because I didn't know this already, but I just realized I'm not sure I'd know how to do the same. I really need to *see* some of that interaction before I can write it.

I have been known to edit stuff for the sake of a comma.
So much depends on a comma.

My rule of thumb is generally that you should be able to put the characters in an empty room and just watch them spark off each other.
That is an excellent rule. And makes me want to stick characters in empty rooms to see what will happen. Heh heh heh.

Quite straightforward, although I wish I was more lyrical.
As people do this meme, I've been noticing different patterns in their writing. You're one of the people who include very little sense detail in their work. Not that there aren't other ways to be lyrical, but it does tend to contribute. (Errr--that's not a crit, just an observation :-\)

Love fanfic. Love writing. If it wasn't for the former I might never have discovered how much the latter means to me. I can't imagine a life without writing, now.
OOooo, yes. This <3

[elisi]

Oh, yay, you did the meme \o/ Thank you! Weirdly, you are the fourth person to do so this week. Are we in a period of unusual solar flares or something?
Personally I was just bored! *g* (Although I'd done about half earlier on, so it was only a question of finishing.)

Not because I didn't know this already, but I just realized I'm not sure I'd know how to do the same. I really need to *see* some of that interaction before I can write it.
Well it helps if you know it'll NEVER happen, so canon will never contradict you... ;)

So much depends on a comma.
Indeed. And I used abuse exclamation marks terribly - I read old fics and wince.

That is an excellent rule. And makes me want to stick characters in empty rooms to see what will happen. Heh heh heh.
*laughs* How long now before I get to see it?

You're one of the people who include very little sense detail in their work. Not that there aren't other ways to be lyrical, but it does tend to contribute. (Errr--that's not a crit, just an observation :-\)
Oh no worries, I'm very aware of this - but because I always write so *long*, by the time I've managed to get everything sounding right, the thought of adding more descriptions makes me wilt. So... it's just laziness, really.

OOooo, yes. This <3
Words are the most wonderful thing in the world. (And I say this as a former art student. Although I did always love books...)

[promethia_tenk]

Well it helps if you know it'll NEVER happen, so canon will never contradict you... ;)
Ahhh . . . Fair point.

And I used abuse exclamation marks terribly - I read old fics and wince.
Lol. I feel like LJ has been a whole education in exclamation marks. I'm not inclined to use them myself, but you'd never be understood without them round these parts. It's like my daily regimen of enthusiasm: !!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! !!!!!! *squee*

*laughs* How long now before I get to see it?
Oh, ha. I was in fact thinking of sticking characters in actual bare rooms (and imagining that gif of Matt Smith running around in a circle and falling down), but that is rather like meta space too. Yeah, I extorted the fic exchange mod last night. She was trying to convince me to write something, and I said I couldn't write anything new until my old fic had cleared my brain and POST THE DAMN FICS ALREADY, THANK YOU (may have used slightly different words). She said she'd start getting them up today. I have told students they would be getting papers back "tomorrow," though, and can sort of see where this is going.

I'm very aware of this - but because I always write so *long*, by the time I've managed to get everything sounding right, the thought of adding more descriptions makes me wilt.
You do the same in shorter fics too, though. But that's fine--it's your style.

And I say this as a former art student.
Cool :-)

[elisi]

Lol. I feel like LJ has been a whole education in exclamation marks. I'm not inclined to use them myself, but you'd never be understood without them round these parts. It's like my daily regimen of enthusiasm: !!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! !!!!!! *squee*
Indeed! Never underestimate the power of exclamation points. :)

Oh, ha. I was in fact thinking of sticking characters in actual bare rooms
I thought you might be, but I couldn't not go there...

(and imagining that gif of Matt Smith running around in a circle and falling down)
That never gets old!

I have told students they would be getting papers back "tomorrow," though, and can sort of see where this is going.
I shall cross my fingers!

You do the same in shorter fics too, though. But that's fine--it's your style.
Ah, but see the fic I mention in the meme (The Tale Of Spike's New Princess) is very lyrical. Also full of smut, mind you, so maybe that's got something to do with it? ;)

Cool :-)
Thanks. The icon is from one of my drawings.

ETA: Darn it, you made me think. Because John Smith wanted a normal, ordinary life. And somewhere inside the Doctor absolutely wants that too. (Remember he had a family once.) Of course he knows that he can't have that, so he never even goes as far as dreaming, or pretending, but in your Leadworth AU I can absolutely see Eleven's subconscious, the part that would normally sound the alarm that something was up, tell him very firmly to ignore anything weird and just hold onto the dream with everything he has. Of course there's the fact that he thought the future dream in Amy's Choice was horrible, but then there was nothing in it for him - in your story he once more has a wife and child, a job that's obviously holding his interest, and real, tangible, happiness, and that's a story he'll want to believe in.

...any good?

[promethia_tenk]

Indeed! Never underestimate the power of exclamation points. :)
Oh, I don't. Which is why I treat them with caution *shifty eyes*

I thought you might be, but I couldn't not go there...
I absolutely understand :-)

Ah, but see the fic I mention in the meme (The Tale Of Spike's New Princess) is very lyrical. Also full of smut, mind you, so maybe that's got something to do with it? ;)
Is it? Hmmm, I might have to give that a glance sometime. Smut and lyricism definitely go excellently together. Indeed, I think they usually evoke each other.

Thanks. The icon is from one of my drawings.
*squints* Evil Bert (from Sesame Street)? Very striking.

ETA: Darn it, you made me think.
Ooo, well, we certainly can't have that ;-)

Because John Smith wanted a normal, ordinary life. And somewhere inside the Doctor absolutely wants that too. . . . and that's a story he'll want to believe in. ...any good?
Oh, yes, absolutely. Although you put it far more eloquently than I and are making me reconsider exactly how much importance the "John Smith Effect" would have in the situation I've set up. I'm also interested in looking at the decision to go back to his real life because (spoiler alert) this is building to them all realizing what's going on and choosing to return to space adventures, but this time the Doctor will get to do that without loosing everything he had in that life and throwing a temper tantrum on the way out. And why should that be? Did the universe just decide to be nicer to him this time, or can we say that he did something right to help bring that about? (Obviously I think it's the second, but I'll want to be precise about whats and whys.) There's a central issue about finding healthy balances that's gonna be vital to this whole thing.

And I'm kind of debating how much I want to look at the uses and abuses of Time Lord powers in this fic as well. Because this whole idea of rewriting people by changing their pasts is troubling to me (and I suspect Moffat as well, if "Continuity Errors" is anything to go by), and it would in no way surprise me if it's an important issue next season. Not that I think that giving Amy her parents back was the wrong decision. I hesitate to cast doubt upon what was a truly touching and selfless gesture, and I think that, ultimately, the fact that Amy had to be an active participant in restoring her own past keeps the whole thing from being too manipulative or questionable. But I can see the Doctor's success in "fixing" Amy as perhaps serving as a precedent for more morally suspect tinkering in other people's timelines in the future.

There is something discomforting in that action of giving Amy her parents back and in how easily it came off, and I know that this fic is a way for me to finesse that to make it more acceptable/believable/balanced/something . . . I'm still not precisely sure what's going to be the key, though. And HN/FoB were also about the uses and abuses of Time Lord power, and there's something about those episodes that's niggling at my mind too, but I'm not sure what yet.

Heh. End ramble.

[elisi]

Oh, I don't. Which is why I treat them with caution *shifty eyes*
I wish I had always been that wise...

Is it? Hmmm, I might have to give that a glance sometime. Smut and lyricism definitely go excellently together. Indeed, I think they usually evoke each other.
And you'll only need to watch the first 5 seasons of Buffy to understand where everyone's at! ;)

Oh, yes, absolutely. Although you put it far more eloquently than I and are making me reconsider exactly how much importance the "John Smith Effect" would have in the situation I've set up.
This is the sort of thing that'll make me big headed...

I'm also interested in looking at the decision to go back to his real life because (spoiler alert) this is building to them all realizing what's going on and choosing to return to space adventures, but this time the Doctor will get to do that without loosing everything he had in that life and throwing a temper tantrum on the way out. And why should that be? Did the universe just decide to be nicer to him this time, or can we say that he did something right to help bring that about?
Hmmm. Not sure if this is relevant, but I was thinking about the scene with Ten and the Master, where Ten says that just *seeing* the universe should be enough, he won't need to *own* it. And how the Doctor worries that he could turn into the Master if he let himself (and so on). Now what struck me was that Ten, in many ways, wanted to 'own' his companions. There was a sense of... entitlement? ('I love you'/'Quite right too') So I think that whenever he lost someone he felt *robbed*, rather than just sad over the loss. All of which leads me to Eleven, who doesn't have that possessive thing at all - see his delight over Amy and Rory getting a happy ending. It's enough for him to just witness others' life. Add to this the fact that on top of this he has River - someone who is his, and someone he can't lose because he's lost her already. (You know what I mean.)

SO - I think that Eleven would be far more ready to make the necessary choice, and not have that angry resentment that Ten would have, because I don't think he'd feel that he was somehow entitled to happiness. (Pile of good things & bad things.) I hope that's helpful.

Because this whole idea of rewriting people by changing their pasts is troubling to me (and I suspect Moffat as well, if "Continuity Errors" is anything to go by), and it would in no way surprise me if it's an important issue next season.
Matt Smith - somewhere - said that there'll be something wrong with Amy next season... And I still remember Moffat talking about Amy in the Confidential to The Eleventh Hour, and what if 'you grew up different to what you were supposed to'. He meant the Doctor abandoning her of course, but also probably included the loss of her parents in that (even though we didn't know that yet).

I know that this fic is a way for me to finesse that to make it more acceptable/believable/balanced/something . . . I'm still not precisely sure what's going to be the key, though. And HN/FoB were also about the uses and abuses of Time Lord power, and there's something about those episodes that's niggling at my mind too, but I'm not sure what yet.
Hmmm. Looking forward to what you come up with!

[promethia_tenk]

This is the sort of thing that'll make me big headed...
Look out for doorframes ;-)

Now what struck me was that Ten, in many ways, wanted to 'own' his companions. There was a sense of... entitlement? ('I love you'/'Quite right too') So I think that whenever he lost someone he felt *robbed*, rather than just sad over the loss. All of which leads me to Eleven, who doesn't have that possessive thing at all - see his delight over Amy and Rory getting a happy ending. It's enough for him to just witness others' life. Add to this the fact that on top of this he has River - someone who is his, and someone he can't lose because he's lost her already. (You know what I mean.)
OOooo, yes. Yes, I like that very much, thank you! Excuse me while I go drop a link to this exchange in one of my though-gathering posts so I'll remember it. . .

Heh. Sudden thought that seems obvious in retrospect: you know what was great about that scene right before the Doctor flew the Pandorica away? It was four people all wanting what was best for someone else. Rory was looking out for Amy. Amy for River. River for the Doctor. And the Doctor for Amy. Hmmm . . . ok, Rory got left out there, poor guy, but I guess the Doc did a lot to help him get Amy, so . . . At any rate, I think a lot of that is carrying over into the psychologies of the people in the AU (Amy, in particular, is sort of fretting over what her parents have had to give up for her) and that includes Eleven.

Matt Smith - somewhere - said that there'll be something wrong with Amy next season... And I still remember Moffat talking about Amy in the Confidential to The Eleventh Hour, and what if 'you grew up different to what you were supposed to'.
Ooo oooo ooo--I had not made that connection! Excellent.

Hmmm. Looking forward to what you come up with!
Thanks :) Me too! I'll let you know.

[elisi]

Look out for doorframes ;-)
Will do! *g*

OOooo, yes. Yes, I like that very much, thank you! Excuse me while I go drop a link to this exchange in one of my though-gathering posts so I'll remember it. . .
My pleasure. :)

At any rate, I think a lot of that is carrying over into the psychologies of the people in the AU (Amy, in particular, is sort of fretting over what her parents have had to give up for her) and that includes Eleven.
Oh very good.

Ooo oooo ooo--I had not made that connection! Excellent.
I've had this in the back of my head all the time, and you've sort of turned it on its head with your 'How did Amy take to parents so quickly?' I always saw it as Amy finally being 'right' - like she was wrong, and missing something, after Rory was erased? Of course, she lost her parents for a lot longer... Although going by the freshness of the apple, it can't have been long before the Doctor showed up. (This only occurred to me last time I watched. Poor little Amelia...)

[promethia_tenk]

I always saw it as Amy finally being 'right' - like she was wrong, and missing something, after Rory was erased?
And yet for all that she was wrong because Rory was missing, it was a real struggle for her to remember, you know? If you'd told her 'so, you had this fiance . . .' she would have been like 'very funny!' It's a bit different with parents because obviously one had parents, but still, I would expect a similar kind of struggle there.

Although going by the freshness of the apple, it can't have been long before the Doctor showed up. (This only occurred to me last time I watched. Poor little Amelia...)
*squishes her* Although, I was under the impression that it wasn't that her mother had put the face on that particular apple, but that she somehow remembered that her mother had done that and had done that apple up fresh for the Doctor. That said, the idea that her parents had been eaten just minutes before the Doc showed up is really nicely creepy . . .

[elisi]

It's a bit different with parents because obviously one had parents, but still, I would expect a similar kind of struggle there.
Why oh WHY have you not watched Buffy? *is sad* I keep wanting to reference stuff from it, but can't. All this about memory and who we are what it means and losing memories and regaining them etc etc... I learned all that stuff on Buffy (and Angel. Oh Angel...) and I feel handicapped not being able to use it! (Um, it's very late. Plz ignore me.)

Although, I was under the impression that it wasn't that her mother had put the face on that particular apple, but that she somehow remembered that her mother had done that and had done that apple up fresh for the Doctor.
Oh yes, that's certainly the implication that makes the most sense.

That said, the idea that her parents had been eaten just minutes before the Doc showed up is really nicely creepy . . .
Isn't it? Also, it's v. interesting that she remembers her mum putting faces on apples. Nothing's ever truly forgotten...

[promethia_tenk]

Why oh WHY have you not watched Buffy? *is sad* I keep wanting to reference stuff from it, but can't. All this about memory and who we are what it means and losing memories and regaining them etc etc... I learned all that stuff on Buffy (and Angel. Oh Angel...) and I feel handicapped not being able to use it! (Um, it's very late. Plz ignore me.)
*chuckle* There, there. I understand. And I assure you that I'm holding out purely to spite you ;-)

Nothing's ever truly forgotten...
I swear, I get choked up just at those words. I think that scene between Amy and the Doc under Stonehenge might just be my favorite of the whole season.

[elisi]

*chuckle* There, there. I understand. And I assure you that I'm holding out purely to spite you ;-)
LOL! Literally. Although I was going to suggest Torchwood as an adequate substitute for now... And given your response [to the other post], I am more than happy! \o/ Not that I don't dearly wish you'd watch Buffy and Angel, but they're 7 and 5 seasons long, respectively (22 episodes in each, apart from S1 of Buffy), and that would make me balk liek whoa. Serious commitment there, so you know, wait until you're bedridden for a few months... ;)

I swear, I get choked up just at those words. I think that scene between Amy and the Doc under Stonehenge might just be my favorite of the whole season.
*points to icon* It is such a beautiful, beautiful scene, and such a beautiful, beautiful story/theme/etc. Actually, I will bring up Angel - specifically some meta by Anna...

We don't stop being human when we lose our hearts; nor when we lose our heads. And every last vestige of humanity can be drained from us, but as long as somebody, somewhere cares, we are not dust.

[promethia_tenk]

LOL! Literally. Although I was going to suggest Torchwood as an adequate substitute for now... And given your response [to the other post], I am more than happy! \o/
Heh.

Serious commitment there, so you know, wait until you're bedridden for a few months... ;)
Check. Oh, the pile of modern classics that I have to watch--it is intimidating. Although Moffat revealed in the production notes of the latest DWM that he hasn't seen Buffy either, so henceforth this is my excuse *nods*

We don't stop being human when we lose our hearts; nor when we lose our heads. And every last vestige of humanity can be drained from us, but as long as somebody, somewhere cares, we are not dust.
Hmmmm . . . that is lovely.

[elisi]

Check. Oh, the pile of modern classics that I have to watch--it is intimidating. Although Moffat revealed in the production notes of the latest DWM that he hasn't seen Buffy either, so henceforth this is my excuse *nods*
Well you're in good company, I'll give you that. (Re. Torchwood, then the first episode is actually pretty brilliant in showing the themes etc of the whole thing. And the way in which playing with people's memory/withholding information is an integral part of the show.)

Hmmmm . . . that is lovely.
Isn't it just? Anna (the_royal_anna writes the most gorgeous meta ever. I almost want you to watch Buffy just so you can read her stuff... She's written a bit on Doctor Who btw - mostly S1, but it's in her memories if you want to have look.)

[elisi]

*squints* Evil Bert (from Sesame Street)? Very striking.
For some reason I remembered never replying to this particular question (my brain is weird like that...) Thank you, and no, it's not Evil Bert (although I think the puppets were made by the Sesame Street people) - it's Puppet!Angel from the episode 'Smile Time', where he *literally* becomes a puppet. It's one of the most brilliant episodes ever ever ever!

ETA: Oh, and re. other recent conversations, I almost want to warn you off Torchwood now... Not that I don't want you to watch it, but OMG SO BLEAK! OK, so S2 brightens up considerably, but still The Law of Joss alwaysa applies (RTD is *such* a Joss fanboy...): If people are happy it means that HORRIBLE THINGS ARE GOING TO HAPPEN TO THEM!!! If you watch, make sure to assume the crash position before you start...

[promethia_tenk]

For some reason I remembered never replying to this particular question (my brain is weird like that...)
I get that sometimes.

(although I think the puppets were made by the Sesame Street people)
Aaaaahhh--that would explain it. It was like whut is going on here? Still very striking, though :-)

it's Puppet!Angel from the episode 'Smile Time', where he *literally* becomes a puppet. It's one of the most brilliant episodes ever ever ever!
I gather Buffy did some good crack? I mean, one always hears about "Once More With Feeling." I miss the crack-y X-Files episodes.

ETA: Oh, and re. other recent conversations, I almost want to warn you off Torchwood now...
Well, thank you for the warning. I haven't started yet, although I might still go for it anyway. My mind is weird with bleak stuff . . . [and here I've written and unwritten about a paragraph of text a whole bunch of times trying to work out my attitude towards darkly-toned tv shows. I've come to the conclusion that I have no idea how I feel about them except to say that I will put up with almost anything if I find the characters compelling enough.]

I think mostly with Torchwood I really want to see how it compares with Battlestar Galactica--it sounds like they're in very similar territory of tone and genre and such, and Battlestar was certainly an anomaly of a show that I could feel completely elated about even as it went about finding ever-more creative and sadistic ways to put its characters through hell.

[Unrelated icon is unrelated, but new!]

[promethia_tenk]

*facepalm*

New icon is misspelled. Or possibly partly in French. Yeah, let's say it's that.

[promethia_tenk]

Fixed =D

[elisi]

Love it, btw, gorgeous colours! :)

[promethia_tenk]

Thank you very much. (Quite proud of this one--I'm starting to learn the tricks, I think, or at least as many tricks as you can pull when you're making icons in PowerPoint, lol.) Although credit for the colors I think really must go to the folks making the show--OMGSOGORGEOUSHOWDOTHEYDOIT?!?!

[elisi]

I DON'T KNOW I THINK IT'S MAGIC!!!!!

And well done you. I have on a few occasions tried my hand, but the results have never been worth it. So I just beg other people to take pity on me... *g*

[elisi]

This puzzled me greatly until I saw the comment below...

[promethia_tenk]

I put an "e" on metaphor. I'm a right mess without a spellcheck--if the English language can't be bothered to have any kind of consistency, I don't see why I should be bothered to memorize a zillion arbitrary spellings.

Although rum frankly sounds like a fairly good solution here . . .

[elisi]

I get that sometimes.
Glad I'm not alone...

Aaaaahhh--that would explain it. It was like whut is going on here? Still very striking, though :-)
'Twas awesome. I've located a small clip here - it's got Finnish subtitles (???) but it should give you an idea. :)

I gather Buffy did some good crack? I mean, one always hears about "Once More With Feeling." I miss the crack-y X-Files episodes.
Oh Buffy did *magnificent* crack. One reason I love Doctor Who & Torchwood so much is that they have the same kind of crack. *is hugely nostalgic*

Well, thank you for the warning.
It was more that I didn't want your Christmas Spirit brought low.

I've come to the conclusion that I have no idea how I feel about them except to say that I will put up with almost anything if I find the characters compelling enough.
Oh, then you might be OK. I always watched Torchwood for the characters - partly because there was SO MUCH CRACK. ;) But - even though a lot of the time they're unsympathetic they're always compelling. ♥

I think mostly with Torchwood I really want to see how it compares with Battlestar Galactica--it sounds like they're in very similar territory of tone and genre and such, and Battlestar was certainly an anomaly of a show that I could feel completely elated about even as it went about finding ever-more creative and sadistic ways to put its characters through hell.
Heee! Watch Buffy OMG!!!! Um. You'll probably be OK. Like I said - watch the first episode, because it really does sum up so many things.

[Unrelated icon is unrelated, but new!]
New, but SHINY!

[promethia_tenk]

'Twas awesome. I've located a small clip here - it's got Finnish subtitles (???) but it should give you an idea. :)
BWAH AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH! Oh, that's lovely. And very much like X-Files crack too.

It was more that I didn't want your Christmas Spirit brought low.
Ah, thanks <3 I think I'll be ok.

I always watched Torchwood for the characters - partly because there was SO MUCH CRACK. ;) But - even though a lot of the time they're unsympathetic they're always compelling. ♥
I do find there are weird and hard to define lines between 'complex but unengaging,' 'compelling,' and 'genuinely likeable.' I have had problems with a few modern, critically acclaimed, morally gritty dramas where I just cannot get attached to any of the characters (most recently Rome, and my sister warns me I may find Mad Men very similar), and yet then there are shows like BSG where everybody is arguably just as dark and twisty and yet I find myself thoroughly involved with them all. Ah, the great mysteries of television. I have good hopes for Torchwood, though.

Like I said - watch the first episode, because it really does sum up so many things.
I might just do that now, actually . . .

[elisi]

BWAH AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH! Oh, that's lovely. And very much like X-Files crack too.
And you also got to see the great Spike in action! (I ship them so much you don't wanna know... *g* Always fighting and yet, when the chips are down, totally have each other's back. *happy sigh*)

and yet then there are shows like BSG where everybody is arguably just as dark and twisty and yet I find myself thoroughly involved with them all. Ah, the great mysteries of television. I have good hopes for Torchwood, though.
*nods a lot* I can't explain it either, but I love everyone on Torchwood greatly, even though a lot of the time they're doing bad, or selfish, or morally questionable, things. Hmm. I like my characters screwed up, I guess. Jack, actually, is a lot like Ten, but the difference is that he's very grey morally, and his team equally so, as opposed to Ten's Lonely Angel Storm at the Oncoming Fire of the Universe. (That will NEVER not be funny...) - and the show doesn't make excuses for them. Even the 'Rose' character screws up quite spectacularly. OK, going to stop now, you'll see for yourself. *goes away to write meta*