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DW 5.10. Vincent and the Doctor.
First off all, some links. My two favourite 'reviews' that deal with the depression aspects are
This one by![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
lefaym and
This one bycopperbadge.
(I have no personal experience with depression, but my maternal grandmother was bi-polar and committed suicide when my mother was 15, so it's something I've been aware of for most of my life.)
And thenskipthedemon has some excellent meta, focusing mostly on the Doctor and how he's developed.
ETA:curriejean has a beautiful vid: Happy for Deep People, focusing mostly Amy (and Amy/Rory and Amy/Vincent - and the Doctor, of course).
My own thoughts are somewhat random and rambly, but meta heavy rather than review-y.
There has been a fair bit of astonishment that Doctor Who, of all programmes, has so successfully tackled such a difficult subject as depression. But what struck me this morning is that it (brilliant writing etc aside) has one major advantage:
The Doctor isn't afraid of madness.
(Madman with a Box, anyone?)
I think the importance of this can't be overstated in this particular episode. There is f.ex. the scene where Vincent battles the [invisible to anyone else] Krayfais. And what does the Doctor do? Grabs a stick and jabs the thin air, even before he knows that there really is something there. It is the most wonderful way in the world of showing Vincent that he thinks that his demons are real, even if he (the Doctor) can't see them. And that is important. We are, on the whole, scared of the unfamiliar, the things we can't see or control. The Doctor embraces them, and thus he can approach Vincent in a way very few other people could.
Because the Doctor knows all about battling the demons in his own head. Asskipthedemon points out in her meta, the Tenth Doctor was often so wrapped up in his own pain, that he was unable to really reach out, and especially in the scene in the bedroom this is very clear:
"I know how it will end, and it will not end well." Vincent says, and the Doctor quite simply walks away, because he knows that there is nothing he can say - because Eleven is not a man who can, or will, try to tell people pretty lies. Partly, I think, because he's stopped telling them to himself. Oh, he still runs away, but that's a different matter. (There is also the Dream Lord to consider, but I'm sure his importance is self-evident.)
And he is far more capable of pushing past his own pain and reaching out to others - which doesn't just go for Vincent, but Amy too.
Which brings me to something else - the way in which the Doctor/Companion dynamic has shifted. Both Nine and Ten needed someone to look after them, someone 'to stop them' (in Donna's words) - not just from going off the rails a la 'Water of Mars', but also from self-harm/suicide. Rose, Martha and Donna were all nurturing in their own way, looking after him. (Rose: "He does it alone, mum. But not anymore. 'Cos now he's got me.", John Smith: "Why does he need you?" Martha: "Because he's lonely.", Wilf: "You gotta promise me you're gonna take care of her." The Doctor: "She takes care of me.")
As everyone has noticed Eleven and Amy are different. He is like her teacher/older brother/father/grandfather, and most of the time very paternal, something Ten very much wasn't, but exactly what Amy needs. Because Amy is very damaged, let's not forget. Four psychiatrists. I think the Doctor is trying to help her as much as he can (which is only proper, considering that he is responsible for a good deal of the damage), or if nothing else trying his best to add to her 'pile of good things'. (I loved that speech.) Especially considering that it was his fault that she lost Rory. (The moment when he talks about how dangerous their visit is, and how they might upset history, and it would 'all be their fault', was absolutely heartbreaking because he was so clearly talking about Rory, and taking full responsibility. But not in a 'woe is me' way, but more in a way that shows him trying to do better.)
But - this all brings me round to Vincent again. Eleven tries to help, in as much as he can, much like he tries to help Amy. And the fact that he is capable of pulling back from his own issues and focus on others is important.
Actually I was also going to mention that his closest friend since childhood is mad, so he knows what it's like to deal with someone lost in his own mind, where you try to reach out, and then realise that you can't help.
~~~
Now a lot of people have mentioned that the Krayfais changes - firstly it is a murdering menace, and then suddenly it's a lost, scared creature. I think this can be blamed on the fact that it's a living, breathing metaphor. It started as a metaphor for depression - a dangerous, invisible monster, leaving destruction in its wake. But then they slayed it, and depression can't be fought like that. It can't be killed or destroyed by one great heroic gesture. I noticed that it was Vincent who pointed out how it had only lashed out in fear - like the people in the village lashed out again him. Using the beat to helping himself to find meaning and logic where there would seem to be none. (Also notice how the Doctor tried to project his own issues onto it: 'I, too, am alone' - which works very well, actually, since depression is not the same for any two people, and the monster in this episode can mirror the experiences of a great many who watch, even though they might be very different.)
~~~
"And sometimes winning- winning is no fun at all."
This sentence, oddly unconnected to anything else, took me completely unawares and kinda left me speechless. I was sat there, quite literally going 'Hello unexpected!Timelord Victorious, what are you doing here?' It was all the pain and loss and terror of Water of Mars wrapped up in a single sentence, completely understated and maybe a little bitter, and I could have kissed the screen. I see very little of Ten in Eleven, but to be reminded that it's all still there, stored away in some compartment of his mind, is eminently pleasing. I love the fact that he is so much calmer and less emotionally driven (because it just wasn't healthy - *pets poor, poor Ten*), but equally I love that who he is now is as a result of who he was before.
~~~
Finally I have to stop, although I have not mentioned the million and one things I loved. Like how gorgeous the TARDIS is, or the look on Vincent's face at the end, or how utterly enchanting the whole episode looked, or all the wonderful lines. Actually, one thing re. his smelly godmother with two heads who gave him the funny thingummybob - it reminded me of this:
Ninth Doctor: "I might never make sense again! I might have two heads. Or no head!"
It makes me very happy that apparently the 'two heads' comment wasn't just a flip remark, but an actual possibility! :)
This one by
lefaym andThis one by
copperbadge.(I have no personal experience with depression, but my maternal grandmother was bi-polar and committed suicide when my mother was 15, so it's something I've been aware of for most of my life.)
And then
skipthedemon has some excellent meta, focusing mostly on the Doctor and how he's developed. ETA:
curriejean has a beautiful vid: Happy for Deep People, focusing mostly Amy (and Amy/Rory and Amy/Vincent - and the Doctor, of course).My own thoughts are somewhat random and rambly, but meta heavy rather than review-y.
There has been a fair bit of astonishment that Doctor Who, of all programmes, has so successfully tackled such a difficult subject as depression. But what struck me this morning is that it (brilliant writing etc aside) has one major advantage:
The Doctor isn't afraid of madness.
(Madman with a Box, anyone?)
I think the importance of this can't be overstated in this particular episode. There is f.ex. the scene where Vincent battles the [invisible to anyone else] Krayfais. And what does the Doctor do? Grabs a stick and jabs the thin air, even before he knows that there really is something there. It is the most wonderful way in the world of showing Vincent that he thinks that his demons are real, even if he (the Doctor) can't see them. And that is important. We are, on the whole, scared of the unfamiliar, the things we can't see or control. The Doctor embraces them, and thus he can approach Vincent in a way very few other people could.
Because the Doctor knows all about battling the demons in his own head. As
skipthedemon points out in her meta, the Tenth Doctor was often so wrapped up in his own pain, that he was unable to really reach out, and especially in the scene in the bedroom this is very clear:"I know how it will end, and it will not end well." Vincent says, and the Doctor quite simply walks away, because he knows that there is nothing he can say - because Eleven is not a man who can, or will, try to tell people pretty lies. Partly, I think, because he's stopped telling them to himself. Oh, he still runs away, but that's a different matter. (There is also the Dream Lord to consider, but I'm sure his importance is self-evident.)
And he is far more capable of pushing past his own pain and reaching out to others - which doesn't just go for Vincent, but Amy too.
Which brings me to something else - the way in which the Doctor/Companion dynamic has shifted. Both Nine and Ten needed someone to look after them, someone 'to stop them' (in Donna's words) - not just from going off the rails a la 'Water of Mars', but also from self-harm/suicide. Rose, Martha and Donna were all nurturing in their own way, looking after him. (Rose: "He does it alone, mum. But not anymore. 'Cos now he's got me.", John Smith: "Why does he need you?" Martha: "Because he's lonely.", Wilf: "You gotta promise me you're gonna take care of her." The Doctor: "She takes care of me.")
As everyone has noticed Eleven and Amy are different. He is like her teacher/older brother/father/grandfather, and most of the time very paternal, something Ten very much wasn't, but exactly what Amy needs. Because Amy is very damaged, let's not forget. Four psychiatrists. I think the Doctor is trying to help her as much as he can (which is only proper, considering that he is responsible for a good deal of the damage), or if nothing else trying his best to add to her 'pile of good things'. (I loved that speech.) Especially considering that it was his fault that she lost Rory. (The moment when he talks about how dangerous their visit is, and how they might upset history, and it would 'all be their fault', was absolutely heartbreaking because he was so clearly talking about Rory, and taking full responsibility. But not in a 'woe is me' way, but more in a way that shows him trying to do better.)
But - this all brings me round to Vincent again. Eleven tries to help, in as much as he can, much like he tries to help Amy. And the fact that he is capable of pulling back from his own issues and focus on others is important.
Actually I was also going to mention that his closest friend since childhood is mad, so he knows what it's like to deal with someone lost in his own mind, where you try to reach out, and then realise that you can't help.
~~~
Now a lot of people have mentioned that the Krayfais changes - firstly it is a murdering menace, and then suddenly it's a lost, scared creature. I think this can be blamed on the fact that it's a living, breathing metaphor. It started as a metaphor for depression - a dangerous, invisible monster, leaving destruction in its wake. But then they slayed it, and depression can't be fought like that. It can't be killed or destroyed by one great heroic gesture. I noticed that it was Vincent who pointed out how it had only lashed out in fear - like the people in the village lashed out again him. Using the beat to helping himself to find meaning and logic where there would seem to be none. (Also notice how the Doctor tried to project his own issues onto it: 'I, too, am alone' - which works very well, actually, since depression is not the same for any two people, and the monster in this episode can mirror the experiences of a great many who watch, even though they might be very different.)
~~~
"And sometimes winning- winning is no fun at all."
This sentence, oddly unconnected to anything else, took me completely unawares and kinda left me speechless. I was sat there, quite literally going 'Hello unexpected!Timelord Victorious, what are you doing here?' It was all the pain and loss and terror of Water of Mars wrapped up in a single sentence, completely understated and maybe a little bitter, and I could have kissed the screen. I see very little of Ten in Eleven, but to be reminded that it's all still there, stored away in some compartment of his mind, is eminently pleasing. I love the fact that he is so much calmer and less emotionally driven (because it just wasn't healthy - *pets poor, poor Ten*), but equally I love that who he is now is as a result of who he was before.
~~~
Finally I have to stop, although I have not mentioned the million and one things I loved. Like how gorgeous the TARDIS is, or the look on Vincent's face at the end, or how utterly enchanting the whole episode looked, or all the wonderful lines. Actually, one thing re. his smelly godmother with two heads who gave him the funny thingummybob - it reminded me of this:
Ninth Doctor: "I might never make sense again! I might have two heads. Or no head!"
It makes me very happy that apparently the 'two heads' comment wasn't just a flip remark, but an actual possibility! :)
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The monster of the week was a metaphorical demons for all three of them. Vincent's depression, the Doctor's depression and his loneliness, and Amy's wildness, as well as the hidden memory of Rory. (Vincent noticed the tears and she didn't understand.. but oh, Eleven did..).
All four of the characters in that episode.. broken in some way.. *sigh* It was such a wonderful episode to deal with all of their issues as a story. I have to admit, I couldn't help wondering if they'd really done the right thing for Vincent later.. or if that must've been a huge mistake. I think the outcome would've happened regardless though.
You know, Rory really wasn't in that many episodes.. but this first one without him after Cold Blood.. almost points out how needed as a character he was! He was the calm, patient character for the three of them. He grounded Amy.. we got to see that, the difference in Amy with and without Rory... for the Doctor.. well, Rory certainly helped him too, he was the companion who listened and believed in the Doctor. He waited, and did what he was told. As much as the Doctor loves adventure... well goodness.. has he has a companion that's done that for him since he became Nine? No! Rose, Martha, Donna, Jack.. everyone's always running off and ignoring his instructions. Rory was the one that the Doctor could finally count on... when the Doctor's worrying about helping Amy, he could know that he'd have backup in Rory...
Oh my, there I go, nattering on about Rory. I loved Rory.
Hmm, last note.. two heads.. maybe that's something that could be the result of regenerations gone wrong, like Nine to Ten almost went? (children in need special/christmas invasion..)
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\o/
Eleven is definitely a professor/teacher, but crosses the teacher/student boundary a lil too often - not in a romantic way or anything, just.. a bit too familiar.
He has known her since she was seven, and I think that shows. Part of him still sees that lost little girl inside the big one, and that informs a lot of how he treats her I think.
The monster of the week was a metaphorical demons for all three of them.
*nods* And I've read a huge number of posts where people with all sorts of different problems, who all see themselves in this episode. One-size-fits-all! :)
Vincent noticed the tears and she didn't understand.. but oh, Eleven did..
I KNOW! *is sad* And then he changes the subject...
It was such a wonderful episode to deal with all of their issues as a story.
It really was. I love it when shows can do that!
I have to admit, I couldn't help wondering if they'd really done the right thing for Vincent later.. or if that must've been a huge mistake. I think the outcome would've happened regardless though.
Yeah, it's all very complicated, but that's why it works, I think. There is no right answer.
You know, Rory really wasn't in that many episodes.. but this first one without him after Cold Blood.. almost points out how needed as a character he was! He was the calm, patient character for the three of them.
I'm so glad you mentioned him, because I think I was going to write about him, but never got that far. And you're absolutely right, it was better with three! They needed his sensibleness.
He waited, and did what he was told. As much as the Doctor loves adventure... well goodness.. has he has a companion that's done that for him since he became Nine? No!
This is so, so true! I'm not very familiar with Old!Who (sadly) but was there ever a Companion who didn't wander off?
Oh my, there I go, nattering on about Rory. I loved Rory.
Me too!!! (I am in denial. He will be back!)
Hmm, last note.. two heads.. maybe that's something that could be the result of regenerations gone wrong, like Nine to Ten almost went?
Yes, that's what I was thinking. (Although apparently *most* of the Doctor's regenerations almost went wrong! *g*) And now I'm wondering if the two-headed thing is another story-tread, what with the two headed race that was mentioned in the Weeping Angels episode... No, that's me overthinking things. Again. :)
ETA: One more thing re 'The monster of the week was a metaphorical demons for all three of them' that just occurred to me - Vincent (whose demons are clear and present) can see the Krayfais. The Doctor (whose demons are much more hidden, see the Dream Lord, the Master etc) can only see it in a mirror, when running away. And Amy (unaware of the loss she's suffered) can't see it at all, only feel its effects. Well done show! :)
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See? Me no good with meta! Just FEELS. Which I then promptly try to fic on (and fail) just...you have said all my Words. Thank you!
*SQUISHES YOU BREATHLESS*
*SQUISHES YOU BACK*