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DW 5.06. Vampires in Venice. Episode thoughts + meta on Doctor/Amy/Rory.
This is late, but I got there. Written in rather a hurry though, so I hope you won't mind if sometimes I've not managed to put my thoughts across as clearly as I could have wished.
A few (somewhat random) thoughts on ‘Vampires in Venice’.
First of all, I love the scene with the cake. There are many reasons...
- It’s such a *perfect* Eleven moment. I somehow can’t picture Nine or Ten pulling it off in the same manner at all. (Just like Ten was perfect for jumping through that mirror on a horse...)
- ‘I thought I’d jumped out of the wrong cake. Again.’ If that isn’t one of the most brilliant fic prompts ever, I don’t know what is. Which Doctor? When? Why? I hope it becomes a fic meme, because it has endless potential.
- The part about ‘a girl standing outside in a bikini...’
- The fact that Rory’s not seen the Doctor in two years, and then he jumps out of his stag do cake, saying that Amy tried to kiss him... the complete and total bewilderment is almost impossible to imagine.
But - the reason that all these things work so beautifully (well the part that makes me flail) is the fact that the Doctor comes across as totally and utterly alien in this scene. The complete gap between how he sees the world, and the reality of human conventions, is beautifully illustrated without any kind of effects or big speechifying. <3
Secondly I love the Doctor’s brief outburst of Italian when they arrive in Venice, particularly because I’m not one of those who thinks Matt is channeling Tennant. To be honest I find it hard to remember that Eleven used to be Ten, they are that different in my eyes... (Apart from the effects of having been Ten, if that makes sense.)
Thirdly. I saw someone mention how they thought Isabella’s father should have been seen to grieve more visibly over his daughter’s death. I kept this in mind when I re-watched and you know what? I don’t think the Doctor told him that she'd been killed... Guido saw her recoiling from the sunlight before being pulled back in, and his hopelessness was evident then.
The next time we see him (after the Doctor has been talking with Rosanna and been told of Isabella’s execution), they’re attacked by the ‘vampire’ girls, and the Doctor uses his screwdriver to reveal their true form. It’s after this that Guido decides to blow up his house - I think in that moment he understands that Isabella is truly lost, and he can’t save her. (If he knows that she's dead, then he's just incredibly stoic, I guess. And - again - realises that she was beyond help.)
Fourthly I shall quote![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
copperbadge, because this is very true:
One thing I truly love about this show and kinda didn't think about till just now was that while it doesn't always follow the same formula, you do sometimes see a formula pop up repeatedly, one of which is the one where the Doctor vows halfway through an episode to kick someone's ass all over town and then proceeds to do so. I love this mainly because once he has sworn to kick ass, there's a great pleasure in watching him figure out how the ass is to be kicked and then execute his plan of kickassage.
Fifthly - Eleven is not Ten: Eleven believes in second chances. His last scene with Rosanna is utterly heartbreaking, partly for this reason. (Their chemistry was fantastic. The Doctor sure knows how to flirt when he wants to. "Think of the children." Oh Doctor!)
(Sixthly - not cool to kill POCs. Sure everyone died, but...)
Thoughts on the Doctor/Amy/Rory triangle.
The Eleventh Doctor is a very, very old man, in a very young man’s body. This is interesting, and it affects the story, because looks matter - that is, we react to how people look.
And when it comes to Amy Pond, it all becomes very complicated.
When she was a child, the Doctor - like a creature out of a fairy tale - fell out of the sky and helped her with the scary crack in her wall. She saw him the way children do, and to her he was just ‘a grown-up’, and therefore old. In ‘The Beast Below’ we see how she makes the connection between the spacewhale and the Doctor, and sees the truth beneath the youthful exterior. (Also of course he behaves old, but that’s not where I’m going right now.)
Because it’s not simple - Amy’s imaginary childhood friend is wrapped up in a pretty fit body. Whether this came to her gradually, or whether it was suddenly illuminated by his impromptu changing session, Amy (and we, since Amy is very much a fangirl) see the Doctor with double vision. He’s the cantankerous/barmy old professor-type, the one we remember from our childhoods - and yet now he’s... rather youthful and dishy. (If Matt's not your type, substitute him for Mr Sex-on-legs Tennant in your mind.)
Amy is obviously trying to balance these two different views, and most of the time I think he’s just the Doctor, her friend, the Madman with a box. But now and again there’s obviously the impulse to go for it - to say ‘Sod it, he’s pretty hot, and I’m in need of something stat!’
(And let me just point out that in Torchwood Amy’s behaviour would be perfectly normal - when you nearly die, you most definitely get attached to those you’re with. And if you’re human... those feelings easily spill over. Just look at Gwen! And remember, Amy has been obsessing over the Doctor pretty much her whole life...)
Whether the show should use Amy to highlight the Doctor’s physical youth in this way is another question entirely and not one I’m going to engage in. What’s done is done, and I'm working with what's on screen.
But - what I love the most is the Doctor’s response to this - the fact that he can see where the problem lies and does his best to fix it. Of course I thought of Rose and Mickey, but I also think this is the reason that Martha and Tom didn’t last.
The frisson between him and Rory is - from the Doctor’s side, I think - an attempt at seeing if this young man who’s after his little girl is a decent sort. From Rory’s POV the Doctor is of course something like his arc-rival, a fairytale made real (he has a space ship! And it travels in time too!) and part of him, I’m sure, knows that he can’t ever compete. So what I love especially is that the Doctor goes very very parental throughout, refusing to be put in the ‘rival’ column:
- There’s the scene where Amy wants to get into the school, and the Doctor’s first (instinctive) suggestion is that he’ll pose as her father. (Shot down hilariously!)
- There’s the moment where he heals her neck from the bite, and then gives her a humbug, which I love so much it makes me flail even just writing about it. Not just fatherly, but grandfatherly. ♥
- The point where he yells at her to do as she’s told and go back to the TARDIS - yes he’s treating her like she’s a child, but that’s the point.
- And of course the end, where he wonders if he could be the one to give her away at the wedding.
The thing is, that this isn’t just a show for Rory’s benefit - his objections to the sudden kiss is ‘You’re human! You’re Amy! You’re getting married tomorrow!’ - he quite simply doesn’t see her that way. (Although there is certainly a bit of seeing double from his side too, what with bitty Amelia, and grownup Amy - but being SO much older (and not human) it doesn’t affect him as much.)
Sidebar: I love how tempestuous their relationship is - that there’s rarely any holding back, or trying to shelter the other’s feelings, and it is rather healthy, I think. I’m not trying to put down previous Doctors and companions btw - Eleven happens to be a very blunt character a lot of the time, and thanks to abandoning her (twice!) Amy is quite a brittle person...
Which brings me to Amy/Rory.
I shall state from the start that I am growing very fond of Rory. In The Eleventh Hour we saw that he was observant and quietly stubborn (to the point of being dismissed from work for a while because he wouldn't back down), and were told that he was a good nurse. Here we see him being a good nurse (immediately going to check on the bitten girl), see him being head-over-heels in love with Amy, and also see him trying to come to terms with the Doctor’s mad world... (Love his anger at the Doctor btw. Amy tried to kiss the Doctor - because he almost got her killed! And Rory has no qualms about laying the responsibility at the Doctor's feet.)
As for his relationship with Amy then the writers obviously decided on show-don’t-tell which I, personally, rather like, although I know there are others who find it frustrating, and see Amy, especially, as a mystery. But I liked the reviewer who said Amy and Rory come across as BFFs whose relationship has turned romantic, which I think is it to a T. That little punch on the arm that Amy gives Rory at the beginning is absolutely perfect, showing both her embarrasment, and also how she deals with it... She knows that they need to ‘talk’, but - quite sensibly - asks that they wait until later. (Next epsiode looks like giving us lots more info on the relationship, so that's another reason the skipping here is fine with me.)
Also, like the Doctor’s paternal attitude, the way they behave around each other tells us a lot - the scene where she’s pulling a face as he takes a picture I absolutely adore, because it shows us that they enjoy each other’s company, and like being silly together, and (imho) is worth more than twenty long declarations of love.
Similarly the scene after they slayGilbert Mummy’s Boy - Amy’s very first reaction isn’t to praise Rory’s bravery, but to point out the stupidity of making a cross (‘numpty’ is a brilliant word btw!!), and it’s such a couple-y moment that I can’t help grinning. (Just like the Doctor/River moments at the beginning of ‘Time of Angels’ “They’re the blue stabilisers [you numpty]!”) Then of course we get the kiss, and me thinks that Amy figures at this point that she can have both of them (‘Got my spaceship, got my boys’), and that quite frankly life’s great.
I’m rambling too much now, but I *adore* the ending and the fact that it’s Amy who asks Rory to come along - and the Doctor’s delighted confirmation of the offer. Mostly I want to draw big sparkly hearts around the three of them. :)
First of all, I love the scene with the cake. There are many reasons...
- It’s such a *perfect* Eleven moment. I somehow can’t picture Nine or Ten pulling it off in the same manner at all. (Just like Ten was perfect for jumping through that mirror on a horse...)
- ‘I thought I’d jumped out of the wrong cake. Again.’ If that isn’t one of the most brilliant fic prompts ever, I don’t know what is. Which Doctor? When? Why? I hope it becomes a fic meme, because it has endless potential.
- The part about ‘a girl standing outside in a bikini...’
- The fact that Rory’s not seen the Doctor in two years, and then he jumps out of his stag do cake, saying that Amy tried to kiss him... the complete and total bewilderment is almost impossible to imagine.
But - the reason that all these things work so beautifully (well the part that makes me flail) is the fact that the Doctor comes across as totally and utterly alien in this scene. The complete gap between how he sees the world, and the reality of human conventions, is beautifully illustrated without any kind of effects or big speechifying. <3
Secondly I love the Doctor’s brief outburst of Italian when they arrive in Venice, particularly because I’m not one of those who thinks Matt is channeling Tennant. To be honest I find it hard to remember that Eleven used to be Ten, they are that different in my eyes... (Apart from the effects of having been Ten, if that makes sense.)
Thirdly. I saw someone mention how they thought Isabella’s father should have been seen to grieve more visibly over his daughter’s death. I kept this in mind when I re-watched and you know what? I don’t think the Doctor told him that she'd been killed... Guido saw her recoiling from the sunlight before being pulled back in, and his hopelessness was evident then.
The next time we see him (after the Doctor has been talking with Rosanna and been told of Isabella’s execution), they’re attacked by the ‘vampire’ girls, and the Doctor uses his screwdriver to reveal their true form. It’s after this that Guido decides to blow up his house - I think in that moment he understands that Isabella is truly lost, and he can’t save her. (If he knows that she's dead, then he's just incredibly stoic, I guess. And - again - realises that she was beyond help.)
Fourthly I shall quote
copperbadge, because this is very true:One thing I truly love about this show and kinda didn't think about till just now was that while it doesn't always follow the same formula, you do sometimes see a formula pop up repeatedly, one of which is the one where the Doctor vows halfway through an episode to kick someone's ass all over town and then proceeds to do so. I love this mainly because once he has sworn to kick ass, there's a great pleasure in watching him figure out how the ass is to be kicked and then execute his plan of kickassage.
Fifthly - Eleven is not Ten: Eleven believes in second chances. His last scene with Rosanna is utterly heartbreaking, partly for this reason. (Their chemistry was fantastic. The Doctor sure knows how to flirt when he wants to. "Think of the children." Oh Doctor!)
(Sixthly - not cool to kill POCs. Sure everyone died, but...)
The Eleventh Doctor is a very, very old man, in a very young man’s body. This is interesting, and it affects the story, because looks matter - that is, we react to how people look.
And when it comes to Amy Pond, it all becomes very complicated.
When she was a child, the Doctor - like a creature out of a fairy tale - fell out of the sky and helped her with the scary crack in her wall. She saw him the way children do, and to her he was just ‘a grown-up’, and therefore old. In ‘The Beast Below’ we see how she makes the connection between the spacewhale and the Doctor, and sees the truth beneath the youthful exterior. (Also of course he behaves old, but that’s not where I’m going right now.)
Because it’s not simple - Amy’s imaginary childhood friend is wrapped up in a pretty fit body. Whether this came to her gradually, or whether it was suddenly illuminated by his impromptu changing session, Amy (and we, since Amy is very much a fangirl) see the Doctor with double vision. He’s the cantankerous/barmy old professor-type, the one we remember from our childhoods - and yet now he’s... rather youthful and dishy. (If Matt's not your type, substitute him for Mr Sex-on-legs Tennant in your mind.)
Amy is obviously trying to balance these two different views, and most of the time I think he’s just the Doctor, her friend, the Madman with a box. But now and again there’s obviously the impulse to go for it - to say ‘Sod it, he’s pretty hot, and I’m in need of something stat!’
(And let me just point out that in Torchwood Amy’s behaviour would be perfectly normal - when you nearly die, you most definitely get attached to those you’re with. And if you’re human... those feelings easily spill over. Just look at Gwen! And remember, Amy has been obsessing over the Doctor pretty much her whole life...)
Whether the show should use Amy to highlight the Doctor’s physical youth in this way is another question entirely and not one I’m going to engage in. What’s done is done, and I'm working with what's on screen.
But - what I love the most is the Doctor’s response to this - the fact that he can see where the problem lies and does his best to fix it. Of course I thought of Rose and Mickey, but I also think this is the reason that Martha and Tom didn’t last.
The frisson between him and Rory is - from the Doctor’s side, I think - an attempt at seeing if this young man who’s after his little girl is a decent sort. From Rory’s POV the Doctor is of course something like his arc-rival, a fairytale made real (he has a space ship! And it travels in time too!) and part of him, I’m sure, knows that he can’t ever compete. So what I love especially is that the Doctor goes very very parental throughout, refusing to be put in the ‘rival’ column:
- There’s the scene where Amy wants to get into the school, and the Doctor’s first (instinctive) suggestion is that he’ll pose as her father. (Shot down hilariously!)
- There’s the moment where he heals her neck from the bite, and then gives her a humbug, which I love so much it makes me flail even just writing about it. Not just fatherly, but grandfatherly. ♥
- The point where he yells at her to do as she’s told and go back to the TARDIS - yes he’s treating her like she’s a child, but that’s the point.
- And of course the end, where he wonders if he could be the one to give her away at the wedding.
The thing is, that this isn’t just a show for Rory’s benefit - his objections to the sudden kiss is ‘You’re human! You’re Amy! You’re getting married tomorrow!’ - he quite simply doesn’t see her that way. (Although there is certainly a bit of seeing double from his side too, what with bitty Amelia, and grownup Amy - but being SO much older (and not human) it doesn’t affect him as much.)
Sidebar: I love how tempestuous their relationship is - that there’s rarely any holding back, or trying to shelter the other’s feelings, and it is rather healthy, I think. I’m not trying to put down previous Doctors and companions btw - Eleven happens to be a very blunt character a lot of the time, and thanks to abandoning her (twice!) Amy is quite a brittle person...
Which brings me to Amy/Rory.
I shall state from the start that I am growing very fond of Rory. In The Eleventh Hour we saw that he was observant and quietly stubborn (to the point of being dismissed from work for a while because he wouldn't back down), and were told that he was a good nurse. Here we see him being a good nurse (immediately going to check on the bitten girl), see him being head-over-heels in love with Amy, and also see him trying to come to terms with the Doctor’s mad world... (Love his anger at the Doctor btw. Amy tried to kiss the Doctor - because he almost got her killed! And Rory has no qualms about laying the responsibility at the Doctor's feet.)
As for his relationship with Amy then the writers obviously decided on show-don’t-tell which I, personally, rather like, although I know there are others who find it frustrating, and see Amy, especially, as a mystery. But I liked the reviewer who said Amy and Rory come across as BFFs whose relationship has turned romantic, which I think is it to a T. That little punch on the arm that Amy gives Rory at the beginning is absolutely perfect, showing both her embarrasment, and also how she deals with it... She knows that they need to ‘talk’, but - quite sensibly - asks that they wait until later. (Next epsiode looks like giving us lots more info on the relationship, so that's another reason the skipping here is fine with me.)
Also, like the Doctor’s paternal attitude, the way they behave around each other tells us a lot - the scene where she’s pulling a face as he takes a picture I absolutely adore, because it shows us that they enjoy each other’s company, and like being silly together, and (imho) is worth more than twenty long declarations of love.
Similarly the scene after they slay
I’m rambling too much now, but I *adore* the ending and the fact that it’s Amy who asks Rory to come along - and the Doctor’s delighted confirmation of the offer. Mostly I want to draw big sparkly hearts around the three of them. :)
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I pretty much agree with everything you've said here. I see a little similarity between Ten and Eleven, most of it physical, but Eleven is definitely his own person and the way he's carrying his age is a huge part of his difference.
I'm extremely intrigued by the cracks subplot. Kind of like the wolf and the 4 thumps were used as over all arcs in previous seasons' I'm dying to see what these cracks in reality end up being. Dimensional cracks? I think that the scene between the Doctor and Rory where they discuss the Tardis being extra-dimensional is more relevant than simply explaining how it's bigger on the inside.
I love how perceptive Rory is. He was the one who figured out that something weird was going on in his ward in the first episode of the season. He already understood about extra-dimensional space. He's going to be extremely useful in the future.
no subject
I adore it when there's more than one companion, and the dynamic of these three is just brilliant! :)
I pretty much agree with everything you've said here.
*beams*
I see a little similarity between Ten and Eleven, most of it physical, but Eleven is definitely his own person and the way he's carrying his age is a huge part of his difference.
*nods* I love it to distraction. :)
I'm extremely intrigued by the cracks subplot.
Oh me too! And apparently there are little clues all over the place - things that will be important later (no ducks in the duck pond!) and I have no idea what they're going to do!
I think that the scene between the Doctor and Rory where they discuss the Tardis being extra-dimensional is more relevant than simply explaining how it's bigger on the inside.
This! I loved that, and it made me change the way I think about the TARDIS, which is quite something.
I love how perceptive Rory is. He was the one who figured out that something weird was going on in his ward in the first episode of the season. He already understood about extra-dimensional space. He's going to be extremely useful in the future.
Oh yes, I think so too. He's not particularly confident, but when he knows something he is very stubborn , and I like that.
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I do adore your thoughts on the tension between youth/age. That's very insightful. And even though I feel like the love triangle thing was done to death with Rose and Mickey it looks there's gonna be a different spin on it this time and I do like Rory (I liked Mickey, too, but I didn't always like the writing for him).
The setting this time was loads of fun, and so was Rosanna.
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See this is where being me is very handy. I know I'm weird in this, but I generally don't have any expectations when I watch things - or rather, I expect to be entertained, and with DW I hope for some good character moments, some continuity and hopefully a story without too many plotholes. Of course there are things I'd love to see happen, but I never presume that the story will go in that direction - although when it does, I'm thrilled. Maybe it's some kind of subconscious way of shielding myself from disappointment? Whatever the case, it makes me a very easy viewer.
But the version I watched didn't have the preview for next week (I don't think? I don't remember it), so if you say it's gonna happen next time, I'll hold my horses. :D
Heh. I can't guarantee anything, but it looked Rory/Amy centric. Or Rory/Amy/Doctor.
I do adore your thoughts on the tension between youth/age. That's very insightful.
Oh thank you! Once I began thinking about it, the fact that they deal with the Doctor's youthful looks in such a head-on way made me rather happy.
And even though I feel like the love triangle thing was done to death with Rose and Mickey it looks there's gonna be a different spin on it this time and I do like Rory (I liked Mickey, too, but I didn't always like the writing for him).
Same here. I don't blame Nine for clinging to Rose like a drowning man, but the whole 'Mickey the Idiot' wasn't something I loved. Thankfully this time the Doctor is... not so clingy. *g*
The setting this time was loads of fun, and so was Rosanna.
Oh yeah!
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Yes exactly. The Doctor *really* likes [older] powerful women...
Then we get the great line "You didn't know Isabella's name."
Oh yes - and you just reminded me of something I forgot! I was going to mention how much I love the fact that the Doctor refuses to play the numbers game ('One city to save a whole species...') He will - if pushed far enough - do it (see EoT f.ex.), but on the whole he utterly refuses. Because everyone matters. Everyone has a name.
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Usually I *hate* 'embarrassing' humour, but this wasn't, because the Doctor was just... himself. (And I'm wondering WHY he decided to burst out of a cake, but well he's an alien. I'm sure it made sense to him!) *g*
And as a casual viewer, this was the first episode with Eleven that I found myself really, really liking, instead of just watching.
Oh that pleases me immensely! The fans will watch and complain/squee, but it's the casual viewers that really determine whether something works. :)
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Really? *is very pleased* Also I am pleased you like them, of course. It's fascinating to see who likes the new series, and who doesn't - and how that overlaps with the Ten fans. :)
I never could have put in into words as clearly as you, though, so thank you.
My pleasure. I just... ramble. It's a thing. I'm just glad that it ends up making sense!
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That is exactly why I find it very hard to ship the Doctor with anyone (except possibly River who is older than the Companions tend to be). Somewhere in the back of my mind he's still the cantankerous old man I first watched.
But I liked the reviewer who said Amy and Rory come across as BFFs whose relationship has turned romantic, which I think is it to a T.
Yes, I agree. I suspect finding out more about their relationship will be an ongoing thing, though I do still find Amy a little hard to get a handle on.
The scene with the cake was perfection :)
no subject
::nods:: I'm fully onboard the Doctor/River 'ship! Partly because she's older (and he has *such* chemistry with older women, no matter who he is), and also because she's not a traditional companion - she has her own life, and just happens to collide with him again and again. (A lot of the time on purpose, of course! *g*)
Somewhere in the back of my mind he's still the cantankerous old man I first watched.
As Anna put it: There are lots of things you should not be able to do, like look nine and be so convincingly nine hundred. He is always the oldest person in the room
Yes, I agree. I suspect finding out more about their relationship will be an ongoing thing, though I do still find Amy a little hard to get a handle on.
Mad, impossible Amy Pond... You know, I think she's supposed to be... tricky. And I'm not sure even she knows exactly what she wants.
The scene with the cake was perfection :)
Oh yes. (And there needs to be fic...)