elisi | Trying to fix plot holes in 'The Beast Below' + some rambling.

Have been run off my feet all day, but am grabbing a few moments to write this down.

First of all, can I just say that I am somewhat gleeful that there *are* plot holes? It's not that I like them, it's just that they were quite the feature of RTD's era, and it's nice to see that they're still around. *pets plot holes* (Since all the character/emotional stuff is spot on I can cope with the plot holes very well - and fanwanking is fun! *g*)

Secondly - am I the only one who thinks that Liz Ten sounds like Liz/Ten? (Which would obviously be the shipping name for the lovely couple in my icon. It pleases me immensely.)

BUT, onto the plot holes... Or rather, my thoughts on them.

Feeding children to the whale.
The little boy (Timmy?) who gets a zero, is told by his sister that he'll have to walk home - if he goes in the 'vator' he'll get sent 'below'. This is obviously common knowledge, so one can presume that if he had just walked he'd have been fine. At any rate, there are obviously ways around the system. (Although the main question is of course who designed the system to be like that? It's very efficient, I suppose, but... hm, yeah, it's clearly been created to serve the plot.) Anyone have any clever thoughts?

When did Amy record her message?
This one struck me as quite simple once I thought about it. It would seem sensible to allow people (after they've chosen to forget) to record a message for themselves, to re-assure themselves that they've not been conned or forced [as such]. The memory wipe doesn't start until they've finished recording.

How did Amy work out that the Doctor was 'very, very old'?
OK, this one isn't so very difficult, and I've seen it answered plenty, I just wanted to include it. :) I think it's a case of Amy putting together all the information she's been given. One, the Doctor was once a parent (that's pretty obvious, so he must be older than he looks). Two, he's the last one of his people. And three, he's clearly been around for a while, considering Liz Ten's stories, not to mention the rooftop scene (not sure how much she'd understand of that, but there's obviously a lot of history there that the Atraxi has access to). Four... four, he's her childhood [imaginary] friend, and thus - I'm sure - has a timelessness about him, in her eyes. To a child, any grownup is *old*, and I think that helps her make that mental leap.

But... I'm going to have to run again. I can't even remember if there was anything else I wanted to address - if you can think of anything, do tell! :)

ETA: One more point - but about the Doctor and his decision. The thing is, he works out what's going on before anyone else (well before Amy and Liz Ten), but doesn't rush into it, just follows along. And I'm sure he'll immediately have seen the three different options open to him, and chosen accordingly. Notice how relatively calmly he lays everything out (well, calm before he snaps). My point is, I don't think he ever wonders if there might be an option 4 - because remember where he's at. He just *died* a very short while ago, a death that he tried to avoid by any means possible, a death that he for one moment thought he had avoided after all... and then came the knocks. His frame of mind was probably very, very fatalistic - whatever you do, horrible things happen. Which is why Amy stuns him so very much.

But - I *must* run!

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I very much like your thoughts on why the Doctor simply couldn't see option 4. I've seen a few people unhappy that he couldn't see the solution because it made him seem stupid that he needs Amy to solve things. (To that I wonder what show they've been watching since that's the very reason he needs a companion - besides the the whole going nuts thing - they see things and solutions that he doesn't.)

Also, from his point of view, why would the whale stay when it has been tortured? He's disgusted with the humans and it makes sense that the whale would be too!

I very much like your thoughts on why the Doctor simply couldn't see option 4.
Thank you - it struck me as very obvious when looked at in the overall context. (It's a little tricky to remember to tie things back to Ten since everything is so new and different.)

To that I wonder what show they've been watching since that's the very reason he needs a companion - besides the the whole going nuts thing - they see things and solutions that he doesn't.
Very, very true!!!

Also, from his point of view, why would the whale stay when it has been tortured? He's disgusted with the humans and it makes sense that the whale would be too!
Indeed. There's a lot in there about what we expect of other people, forgiveness, hope etc.

I'm thinking that possibly the children being fed to the whale is a hang over from when the police state was first set up, before they knew that the whale wouldn't eat children. Presumably the thought was that it would be an easy way to get rid of under achievers, keeping the population down and keeping their ride fed. Also if all the lifts work like that presumably if an underachieving adult, who had done badly at work or something, got on the lift the same thing would happen to them. That still happens so the system is kept in place. Also I imagine that the kids that do go down the chute are eventually turned into the half Smilers that we see.

Also I am so on board with the not caring about the plot holes. Given the choice between water tight plotting and shiny character stuff I'm going to be a soaking wet fangirl hugging her new sparkly toys every time.

Hmm that metaphor could use some work. But who cares because Eleven and Amy are adoreable.

Also I imagine that the kids that do go down the chute are eventually turned into the half Smilers that we see.
Oooh now that is *inspired*. Yes, of course! (I think the whale mostly lives off 'scraps'/rubbish (considering that its mouth resembled a compost bin. But it certainly made for a perfect place to dispose of unwanted people.)

Given the choice between water tight plotting and shiny character stuff I'm going to be a soaking wet fangirl hugging her new sparkly toys every time.
Hee! I think that's definitely a brilliant metaphor! And yes, Amy and Eleven are cute, and that's all that matter. :)

I suspect that "keeping the population intimidated and unquestioning" is more important than feeding the whale - since presumably it gets most of its nutrition from food waste rather than political prisoners.

(Unless Spaceship Britain is so overpopulated that they have to keep on feeding surplus people to the whale, or they'll run out of life support capacity? Now there's a darker twist to the story...)

But that aside, the thing about the Vator seems to me to be simply "Here's a petty rule, just to make life inconvenient for you and show you how much you suck and how pathetic you are. But if you defy authority and break the rule, you'll disappear and never be seen again. All about intimidation and enforcing the social order through fear. They probably don't expect anyone to take the Vator - but if some do and vanish, it just reinforces the fear of everybody else. (And gets rid of a dangerous rule-breaker too.)

As for Amy judging the Doctor's age: the fact that he's apparently identical now to what he was when she was a small child suggests that he's unaging and immortal. (Or that he jumped through time and for him it was only five minutes - but I think human nature would first jump to the former conclusion.)

Also, maybe he reminds her of David Attenborough. ;-)

I suspect that "keeping the population intimidated and unquestioning" is more important than feeding the whale - since presumably it gets most of its nutrition from food waste rather than political prisoners.
Yes, those were my thoughts too.

Unless Spaceship Britain is so overpopulated that they have to keep on feeding surplus people to the whale, or they'll run out of life support capacity? Now there's a darker twist to the story...
Oooh, there's a thought. Hmm. Very dark indeed - I like it! :)

But that aside, the thing about the Vator seems to me to be simply "Here's a petty rule, just to make life inconvenient for you and show you how much you suck and how pathetic you are. But if you defy authority and break the rule, you'll disappear and never be seen again. All about intimidation and enforcing the social order through fear.
*nods a lot* Those were the lines I was thinking along - it very well done.

the fact that he's apparently identical now to what he was when she was a small child suggests that he's unaging and immortal. (Or that he jumped through time and for him it was only five minutes - but I think human nature would first jump to the former conclusion.)
I dunno. He tells her immediately that it's a time machine, so I think it's the other way round - she finds out that he's not human, and suddenly a lot of things probably make a lot more sense.

Also, maybe he reminds her of David Attenborough. ;-)
LOL! (Or, as Moffat said 'The mind of Sir Patrick Moore trapped in the body of an underwear model! *g*)

Btw does this mean that you've jumped on the Who bandwagon? If so, welcome to!

He tells her immediately that it's a time machine, so I think it's the other way round

Maybe. I'm just thinking about what would be easier for someone to accept - Amy doesn't really believe the TARDIS is a spaceship until he takes her into space, and I'm not sure she really believes it's a time machine until he takes her to London in 1940 to meet Churchill. Seeing is believing. On the other hand, the fact that the exact same man cam to see her when she was a little kid and when she was an adult has already convinced her that he's unchanging and eternal.

does this mean that you've jumped on the Who bandwagon?

I'm not sure I've ever been off it. I'm British, which means I hid behind the sofa as a child with the best of them. :-)

On the other hand, the fact that the exact same man cam to see her when she was a little kid and when she was an adult has already convinced her that he's unchanging and eternal.
True. (He's like Santa & Peter Pan, all wrapped up in one!)

I'm not sure I've ever been off it. I'm British, which means I hid behind the sofa as a child with the best of them. :-)
I realised that maybe I hadn't phrased that as well as I should have. *g*

Trying to fix plot holes in 'The Beast Below' + some rambling.

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