elisi | Do you think the comics are canon?

Joss disowned the movie, but he's said that the comicbook adaptation of his original script is "basically canon" although he "does have some issues with it". I'm happy to take his word for it - but then, I do about the other comics he's said are canon as well. :-)

http://stormwreath.livejournal.com/51007.html

On the other hand, I do have a Kristy Swanson icon so I'm clearly not completely anti-the movie.

but he's said that the comicbook adaptation of his original script is "basically canon" although he "does have some issues with it".
How did I not know this? Thank you.

I'm happy to take his word for it - but then, I do about the other comics he's said are canon as well. :-)
Indeed. It's interesting coming from this when looked at in the light of Doctor Who canon, of which there is SO MUCH (the TV show itself, books, comics, radio plays, etc. etc.) that the concept of canon is almost a moot point.

On the other hand, I do have a Kristy Swanson icon so I'm clearly not completely anti-the movie.
Oh the movie is *adorable*. :)

I really enjoyed reading the responses at that poll post. I actually went there and voted too! I thought I'd copy and paste what I said there to here so you could give me your opinions and feedback, too. I hope you don't mind! (I fixed the spelling errors on your journal)

"Here by way of the lovely

elisi.

This is an excellent question! I went with NO. I have not read the comics, but that is beside the point. The Buffy canon is the television series. I see the movie as a side story. Not really part of the canon itself, but a possible background. The comics can not be canon, no matter who wtites them or what they say, because they are not part of the television show.

As an example of what I mean, Marvel is a comic entity. They publish a lot of comic stories, some they disavow as canon, but mostly, it's canon. The X-Men movies are not canon. No way, no how, no matter what. They are movies. Maybe they have their own little alternate universe of canon? But they are not part of the comic canon established by Marvel.

So, the Buffy and Angel comics may count as a seperate canon, an alternate universe that is a possiblilty of what came after. But they are not canon to the television shows. They can't be. It is illogical to mix the mediums."

Edited 2010-01-19 21:52 (UTC)

I really enjoyed reading the responses at that poll post.
Same here. I also thought it interesting how many people said 'I think s8 is canon, but I am ignoring it.' So the votes aren't indicating success.

I thought I'd copy and paste what I said there to here so you could give me your opinions and feedback, too. I hope you don't mind!
Not at all!!!

The Buffy canon is the television series. I see the movie as a side story. Not really part of the canon itself, but a possible background. The comics can not be canon, no matter who writes them or what they say, because they are not part of the television show.
So much yes! This is how I see it too!

As an example of what I mean, Marvel is a comic entity.
You know, that is a brilliant example. Ditto new and old Star Trek. (And let's not get into Doctor Who, because the canon there is so old and sprawling that no one knows what to count exactly! *g*)

But they are not canon to the television shows. They can't be. It is illogical to mix the mediums.
You are wise indeed!

I took the poll, thanks to having previously read

sueworld2003's journal.

IMO, the comics are crackfic, they sure as hell don't sound like canon to me.

IMO, the TV series is canon...and I might extend canon to the movie, as well.

IMO, the comics are crackfic, they sure as hell don't sound like canon to me.
Right from that first image of Buffy jumping out of a helicopter, all kevlar-clad and gun-carrying, it's been nothing but downhill...

IMO, the TV series is canon...and I might extend canon to the movie, as well.
The movie is adorable indeed. And i love the fact that it's referenced in the show. ("Mice that smoked?") :)

Actually - what do y'all think about the movie in canon terms?

To me, the movie is clearly not canon since it blatantly contradicts the show in various ways (eg: vampires fly!).

If I'm reading a fic and I see a nod to specific events in the movie, I'll smile. But if I'm reading a fic that's consistent with the show and establishes a pre-Sunnydale background for Buffy that contradicts events in the movie, I won't even blink.

I guess pretty much the same goes for the comics, at this point! I mean, they're not really consistent with the show (um, Warren?). They look different from the show, they feel different from the show. So defininitely not canon.

To me, the movie is clearly not canon since it blatantly contradicts the show in various ways (eg: vampires fly!).
Very true.

If I'm reading a fic and I see a nod to specific events in the movie, I'll smile. But if I'm reading a fic that's consistent with the show and establishes a pre-Sunnydale background for Buffy that contradicts events in the movie, I won't even blink.
Same here. The movie is sweet, but even the show ret-conned it directly.

I guess pretty much the same goes for the comics, at this point! I mean, they're not really consistent with the show (um, Warren?). They look different from the show, they feel different from the show. So defininitely not canon.
*nods* We seem to be in perfect agreement!

I honestly tried to watch this movie. Two times. While it was on TV. I couldn't, had to stop after maybe 10 min.
It's HORRIBLE! :) Therefore not canon for me.

But it's so SWEET! *hugs movie!Buffy* It's like American Pie, or Clueless, or one of those films. Bring out the popcorn and just enjoy!

I tried to follow the comics in the beginning, but they were way too weird for me...so not canon to me :P

'Weird' is a HUGE understatement! *g*

I'm late to the party, but I think I consider the comics sub-canon or secondary-canon. I have layers to my concept of canonicity. (This is probably thanks to being a long time Star Wars fan. A lot of the Extended Universe has entered canon, but I'll consider the Holiday Special canon before I even think of entertaining the prequels, which are a betrayal of canon *grumblegrumblecontinuityandcharactarmotivation*.)

The Buffy movie I do not consider canon at all, primarily because my memory of the movie was nearly the cause of me missing out on the TV show. As it was, I only started watching Buffy because Angel was well-written, so the show it had spun off from might not be as bad as the movie I remembered.

I'm late to the party, but I think I consider the comics sub-canon or secondary-canon. I have layers to my concept of canonicity.
Layers are good. I think I once decided that the comics were the apocrypha of the Buffy verse. :)

but I'll consider the Holiday Special canon before I even think of entertaining the prequels, which are a betrayal of canon *grumblegrumblecontinuityandcharactarmotivation*
Hee! I know what you mean. I'm not a Star Wars fan by any means, but the prequels definitely made me sit up and go 'Huh?' Creators should NEVER be allowed to do whatever they want!

The Buffy movie I do not consider canon at all, primarily because my memory of the movie was nearly the cause of me missing out on the TV show.
Aw, poor movie. My husband LOVES the movie (he has a thing for daft teen flicks), so it's his fault we decided to check out the show. Unfortunately (for him) I ended up with a severe case of obsession, and he's only got himself to thank! *g*

Creators should at the very least be pinned down and asked questions like:

"If this character says she remembers her mother, why are you having the mother die giving birth to her?"

"Why would an eight year old slave boy on a backwater planet build a freaking Protocol Droid to help his mom out when the mom has nothing to do with translating millions of languages?"

"Didn't Obi Wan Kenobi originally bring baby Luke to Tatooine to hide him in a backwater planet in the middle of nowhere because nobody would think to look there? In that case, why is Tatooine the center of half the politically important events in recent memory instead of the previously described backwater?"

Not to mention, "Why are you suddenly trying to give a really crappy pseudo-scientific explanation for a mystical Life Force that is part of everything when everyone was perfectly happy with it being mystical, and WTF do you think you're doing with this virgin birth shit?"

At least Joss is still actively involved in caring about the plot instead of sitting back and counting the money because he's dead certain he'll get plenty from the collectible toys no matter what.

Creators should at the very least be pinned down and asked questions like
Heh. I think George Lucas and Joss have diametrically opposed ways of approaching the 'I can do anything!' situation. Lucas decides to do nothing but FiTBs and added continuity which makes no sense, and Joss thinks that jumping ahead a few years with no explanations is a fabulous idea, and no one will mind that the characters' actions make no sense.

Hi,

have to say that, while I find the comics interesting, they don't excite me the way the show did. They read, and feel, like well-written, but rather average (on the whole) fanfiction; I wouldn't want to rec them @ BBF, for example.

There've been notable exceptions, of course. I think particularly of The Chain & Wolves at the Gate, as well as the first Faith story, the title of which annoyingkly escapes me at the moment :-(

People like deird2, beer good, a2zmom, ubiquirk, brutti_ma_buoni have all consistently written fic that reads far, far better than what Joss is coming up with since the demise of Firefly; there are numerous other examples in fanfic-land I could probably cite - if I had a couple of weeks that is!

The continuation, or fanverse, that most consistently retains the feel, and spirit, of the show is jetwolf's 'The Chosen'. She's rather frustratingly stalled at the moment, sadly RL has interfered with teh telling of the series, but it has far more the feel of canon than the S8 comics.

Inoffensive, and interesting.

Hardly ringing endoresement when you consider Joss saying once, "I want to tell stories that people love, and can't bear to miss, not ones they like, and can wait to see."

I'm paraphrasing, of course, but since writing Serenity - the Movie, he hasn't written anything that I can't bear to miss. if it came to the point of not being able to afford the comics, I'm not sure I could honestly say I would miss not knowing how they ended.

Still under Willow & Tara's spell,
Ray.

They read, and feel, like well-written, but rather average (on the whole) fanfiction
Oh, you are kinder in your appraisal than I. (I think they're crack-fic, with added 'wtf?' thrown in. But I know people who like them, so obviously there's something there to enjoy!)

There've been notable exceptions, of course. I think particularly of The Chain & Wolves at the Gate, as well as the first Faith story, the title of which annoyingkly escapes me at the moment :-(
'No Future For You'. (I was still keeping up back then.) Yes, the Faith-story was good, although fundamentally flawed, and Dracula has (IMHO) been the single best thing about the comics so far. (Nevermind that his sudden friendship with the Scoobies makes no sense. He was brilliant! *g*)

there are numerous other examples in fanfic-land I could probably cite - if I had a couple of weeks that is!
Oh I know the feeling. Are you following

three_deep btw? It's not been updated in forever, but what's there is extremely impressive.

The continuation, or fanverse, that most consistently retains the feel, and spirit, of the show is jetwolf's 'The Chosen'.
I have not come across that one, might have look at it once time permits. Thanks. :)

Hardly ringing endoresement when you consider Joss saying once, "I want to tell stories that people love, and can't bear to miss, not ones they like, and can wait to see."
LOL! I gave up on s8 ages and ages ago (the bankrobbing was the last straw), and although I am mildly curious to see how things pan out it's more in a 'watching a car-crash unfold' than any genuine interest. The list of things that are wrong is so long, that (as far as I can tell) the only way to salvage it is for everything to have been a dream! ;)

I'm paraphrasing, of course, but since writing Serenity - the Movie, he hasn't written anything that I can't bear to miss.
Same here. (And oh, how I counted down to Serenity... *wistful sigh*)

Thank you lots for your comment, and sorry it took me so long to respond - RL has been too busy to sit down for any proper length of time.

Hi,

here's a couple of links for you to work with. There's a LOT of fic to wrk through, but I promise you, it is well worth it. But, fair warning, there is NO Spike, or Angel so,if you cannot bear to be without them...

- The Chosen @ http://www.btvschosen.com/

- The Wolf Pack @ http://www.jetwolf.com/wolfpack/index.php

The Chosen is all about the core of what made the Scoobies magical. I mentioned early on after starting to read the series, the absence of Spike, but I was able to handle it because, while I much appreciated Spike on AtS, ultimately I came to wish they hadn't done it, and left my hero to die a hero's death.

Given that, I hope you will give it a shot. Take your time because, rather like the works of Shakespeare, or poetry, you have to take your time to appreciate it. It unwinds, and weaves around you.

Exactly like the world of Buffy the Vampire Slayer did, once I started to watch it.

Or Doctor Who, Star Trek & the books of Anne McCaffrey, Marion Zimmer Bradley, and especially CJ Cherryh.

She's only a fan writer but, somehow, JetWolf managed to capture, for me, the spirit of what made Buffy's world so magical. Even Tara wouldn't have been enough. Quite remarkable really, when you consider that Giles was the only character, amongst the original four, that I really liked.

I don't include Cordy, because she really didn't become a core character until S2. Buffy was the whiny rich bitch, for me, in that first season; Xander was far too good looking AND well built, physically, to make a believable geek, and there was something uncomfortable about, what I saw, and still do in many ways, Willow's manipulative childishness.

More later, because the library is closing.

Still under Willow & Tara's spell,
Ray.

here's a couple of links for you to work with. There's a LOT of fic to wrk through, but I promise you, it is well worth it. But, fair warning, there is NO Spike, or Angel so,if you cannot bear to be without them...
Oh I like the Scoobies, it's more *time* that is a factor, unfortunately. But I shall bookmark it, since I do love quality fic, and if I ever get a proper chunk of time I shall certainly have a look. (That's the problem with being a fic writer, as well as a reader. The more you write, the less time you have to read. :( But you've been most persuasive, so who knows!)

Thank you.

Do you think the comics are canon?

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