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Why the scene between the Doctor and [spoiler] was perfect!
So, Jack. On first view, the Cantina scene struck me as brilliant (obviously) but very short. See my favourite Jack-meets-the-Doctor-post-CoE fic is Even the Damned - a story set in a bar (of course), and featuring a long and excellent conversation between the Doctor and Jack, culminating in the Doctor imparting his wisdom with these words:
***
"It's the one fundamental right of sentient beings, to love each other."
Jack looked up at those dark, inhuman eyes, so familiar and so strange. He felt . . . something. Something that stirred in the terrible emptiness and ashes that had filled his chest for months now.
The Doctor raised his eyebrows slightly, the puppyish cast it gave his face almost jarringly out of place with the subject matter under discussion. "Even the damned love," the Doctor told him with dead certainty. "And even the damned can be loved."
***
And the more I think about it, the more I'm realising that the scene we got gives us that *exactly*. That one little note communicates a whole wealth of different things:
1) I forgive you. Because Jack won't forgive himself:
Gwen: "It’s wasn’t your fault."
Jack: "I think it was. Stephen and Ianto. And Tosh and Owen and Suzie and... All of them. Because of me."
The Doctor knows exactly what Jack is going through, and because of who he is, and what he means to Jack, he can hopefully help Jack to begin to come to terms with what he did.
2) It's OK to move on.
The Doctor: "You can spend the rest of your life with me. But I can't spend the rest of mine with you. I have to live on. Alone."
Ianto: "So... one day, you'll see me die of old age. And just keep going."
Jack: "Yeah."
But the Doctor found Martha - and Donna. (And River and Astrid and...) And they didn't diminish his feelings for Rose at all. Writing this, it strikes me that the way the Doctor lost Rose isn't too dissimilar to how Jack lost Ianto - neither partner willing to leave the man they loved to fight alone.
3) Don't be alone. This might be the most important lesson that the Doctor is trying to impart. He thought that the pain of losing people was too big a price to pay, and tried the lonely life - and discovered that he *needed* someone. [to stop him] Being alone isn't better.
4) I'm sorry. For everything that's happened to him, probably...
The Doctor: "I’m sorry, but I can’t! Sometimes I can. Sometimes I do. Most times I can save someone or anyone. But not you."
I'm not sure this is all immediately obvious to Jack - but, presuming he develops an actual relationship with Alonso, it'll all become clear... Because Alonso isn't just a pretty face. He's sweet and honest and kindhearted and brave - a genuinely *good* person, I think I can safely say. Not to mention one who has helped the Doctor save the day! And I think it'll mean the world to Jack that *this* was who the Doctor set him up with. He probably expected anger or disappointment ("Everything Torchwood did and you’re part of it?!") - but much worse. Instead he gets a gift that I'm sure he feels he doesn't deserve. But I'm sure it's what he needs.
Jack/Ianto was a wonderfully complex and complicated 'ship, because they were both such damaged and secretive people. Or, to borrow a quote from![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
the_royal_anna:
But my other love story is this one: that when you're broken, sometimes the only thing you have that isn't broken are the relationships that keep hold of you even when you can’t keep hold of them.
They kept me spellbound for three seasons, and I'd have watched them for 10 more, happily. However, at the point Jack is now, he needs something different. As JB said - he went back to the stars to see if he could learn to love again. And Alonso could, hopefully, be the first step on the way.
And this leads me to a slightly different topic... I don't really hang out in the TW fandom much, but I've been told that people are pretty OK with Jack/Alonso. Now as a hardcore Jack/Ianto 'shipper, who was *heartbroken* when Ianto died and very apprehensive about a S4 of TW (partly because of a possible new love-interest for Jack) I shall give my perspective. Because I think Jack/Alonso is just lovely.
I think it's because Alonso isn't a character specifically created to be a love-interest. Those kinds of characters don't tend to work very well, just look at Riley or Kennedy. But Alonso is his own character, with his own story and background, and doesn't depend on Jack for his existence.
I'm still not quite sold on TW S4 (CoE carried such finality, it felt like the ending of the 'verse), but I'm more optimistic now. I would LOVE to see Alonso as a regular (or just doing a guest appearance), although I've no idea how he'd fit in...
***
"It's the one fundamental right of sentient beings, to love each other."
Jack looked up at those dark, inhuman eyes, so familiar and so strange. He felt . . . something. Something that stirred in the terrible emptiness and ashes that had filled his chest for months now.
The Doctor raised his eyebrows slightly, the puppyish cast it gave his face almost jarringly out of place with the subject matter under discussion. "Even the damned love," the Doctor told him with dead certainty. "And even the damned can be loved."
***
And the more I think about it, the more I'm realising that the scene we got gives us that *exactly*. That one little note communicates a whole wealth of different things:
1) I forgive you. Because Jack won't forgive himself:
Gwen: "It’s wasn’t your fault."
Jack: "I think it was. Stephen and Ianto. And Tosh and Owen and Suzie and... All of them. Because of me."
The Doctor knows exactly what Jack is going through, and because of who he is, and what he means to Jack, he can hopefully help Jack to begin to come to terms with what he did.
2) It's OK to move on.
The Doctor: "You can spend the rest of your life with me. But I can't spend the rest of mine with you. I have to live on. Alone."
Ianto: "So... one day, you'll see me die of old age. And just keep going."
Jack: "Yeah."
But the Doctor found Martha - and Donna. (And River and Astrid and...) And they didn't diminish his feelings for Rose at all. Writing this, it strikes me that the way the Doctor lost Rose isn't too dissimilar to how Jack lost Ianto - neither partner willing to leave the man they loved to fight alone.
3) Don't be alone. This might be the most important lesson that the Doctor is trying to impart. He thought that the pain of losing people was too big a price to pay, and tried the lonely life - and discovered that he *needed* someone. [to stop him] Being alone isn't better.
4) I'm sorry. For everything that's happened to him, probably...
The Doctor: "I’m sorry, but I can’t! Sometimes I can. Sometimes I do. Most times I can save someone or anyone. But not you."
I'm not sure this is all immediately obvious to Jack - but, presuming he develops an actual relationship with Alonso, it'll all become clear... Because Alonso isn't just a pretty face. He's sweet and honest and kindhearted and brave - a genuinely *good* person, I think I can safely say. Not to mention one who has helped the Doctor save the day! And I think it'll mean the world to Jack that *this* was who the Doctor set him up with. He probably expected anger or disappointment ("Everything Torchwood did and you’re part of it?!") - but much worse. Instead he gets a gift that I'm sure he feels he doesn't deserve. But I'm sure it's what he needs.
Jack/Ianto was a wonderfully complex and complicated 'ship, because they were both such damaged and secretive people. Or, to borrow a quote from
the_royal_anna:But my other love story is this one: that when you're broken, sometimes the only thing you have that isn't broken are the relationships that keep hold of you even when you can’t keep hold of them.
They kept me spellbound for three seasons, and I'd have watched them for 10 more, happily. However, at the point Jack is now, he needs something different. As JB said - he went back to the stars to see if he could learn to love again. And Alonso could, hopefully, be the first step on the way.
And this leads me to a slightly different topic... I don't really hang out in the TW fandom much, but I've been told that people are pretty OK with Jack/Alonso. Now as a hardcore Jack/Ianto 'shipper, who was *heartbroken* when Ianto died and very apprehensive about a S4 of TW (partly because of a possible new love-interest for Jack) I shall give my perspective. Because I think Jack/Alonso is just lovely.
I think it's because Alonso isn't a character specifically created to be a love-interest. Those kinds of characters don't tend to work very well, just look at Riley or Kennedy. But Alonso is his own character, with his own story and background, and doesn't depend on Jack for his existence.
I'm still not quite sold on TW S4 (CoE carried such finality, it felt like the ending of the 'verse), but I'm more optimistic now. I would LOVE to see Alonso as a regular (or just doing a guest appearance), although I've no idea how he'd fit in...
no subject
Apologies for butting in to your comment, but that thought just intrigues me.
And you are so, so right about the drunken adipose!
no subject
It's been a bad year for grandchildren...